Drivers not turning left with green light

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
If you don't enter the intersection, as the OP is complaining about, you don't have that right.

I see a lot of people not pulling out at all, and it's really maddening on those wide open intersections with boulevards or two turning lanes. You can't get a hatchback into the intersection at all on a green light? They drive Civics like they're an articulating bus.

 

[Bud]

I can only assume a lot of folks got their drivers license under the table. At least that is what their driving reflects.

 

[Imp4]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Someone had an Ohio plate and wouldn't pull into the intersection to wait. I texted a friend of mine in Ohio if they all do that and she said yes.
Ugh!!!
Good grief!!!

Claims like these are the incidents that make me wonder for our future...

No, an anecdote is not data my friend.

 

[vavavroom]

Originally Posted By: PimTac

I’ve seen many times at night where a car was in the intersection and made the turn on the red only to get flashed by the camera.


I know one intersection where I get always flashed when making a right turn on red. Turning right after a full stop is legal there. I have never gotten a ticket. My conclusion is that just because you get flashed does not necessarily mean you will get a ticket.

 

[Nick1994]

Originally Posted By: Imp4
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Someone had an Ohio plate and wouldn't pull into the intersection to wait. I texted a friend of mine in Ohio if they all do that and she said yes.
Ugh!!!
Good grief!!!

Claims like these are the incidents that make me wonder for our future...

No, an anecdote is not data my friend.
I asked someone who has lived in Ohio for YEARS who drives a real life car, and she said people won’t turn left. What’s wrong with that? Here’s the text

 

[raburn2906]

What purpose does it serve to enter the intersection vs staying behind the light to turn? That's what's causes gridlock at an intersection...

 

[Garak]

You'll have people just sit there, then. The light will turn yellow. They're behind the crosswalk (or stop line), which means you cannot proceed at that point, and then they sit there for another light cycle. If you're in the intersection (where it's safe of course), you are legally allowed to proceed and it won't create gridlock. If 18 cars try to follow the person, that's a problem, but not the fault of the person originally in the intersection.

 

[Sayjac]

Quote:
What purpose does it serve to enter the intersection vs staying behind the light to turn?...

One expression I've heard for it that I particularly like is 'claiming the intersection.' It enables the driver in the intersection to quickly make a left turn when access permits from on coming traffic. That as opposed to sitting at the light, then having to enter the intersection before turning left. Which does take more time.

That said, IME many are either unaware of the practice and/or don't care that it's completely legal.

 

[Spartanfool]

Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Originally Posted By: Leo99
I used to work with someone that woldn't turn right on red. She didn't believe in it.


Bingo! We have a winner. She can't differentiate between facts (the law) and opinion (her own).


Here in Michigan, the law says a driver "may" turn right on red. Driver "shall" come to a complete stop and "shall" yield to any bicyclists or pedestrians. May vs. Shall.

I don't like the drivers that don't choose to turn, but it is their right.

Spartanfool
(Former Driver Training Instructor)

 

[goodtimes]

Pretend someone is turning left into a driveway, they don't stay back then move forward to turn. They go to the best position to turn. Staying back means you are still going to move forward, then turn, which is less safe. I never see people here waiting behind the crosswalk at traffic lights waiting for an opening in oncoming traffic, then moving forward, then turning. It makes no sense.

 

[jhellwig]

Pilling into an intersection when you can’t turn left causes more problems around here. Once your light turns green you have to wait on people turning left because no one bothers to begin to stop on yellow so the left turn people are still sitting there. This backs everything up even more making more of a mess.

I do not pull into an intersection to turn unless I am waiting on maybe one oncoming car. Not going to sit there waiting to get plowed into by some idiot not paying attention.

I don’t turn right unless I have a long clear view of the lane I am turning into. Seen to may people plowed turning right. I don’t care how many people honk at me.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: Leo99
I used to work with someone that woldn't turn right on red. She didn't believe in it.


Yikes.

Although it does beg the question: are you required to turn right on red if it's possible? It sure is nice when everyone does.

 

[MNgopher]

Minnesota State law says you have to clear the intersection before the light turns red. Entering the intersection on a green, and then exiting when the light turns red, even on a left turn on green, is not legal. Under that idea, is OK to enter an intersection you know you will never make it across on the green, and sit there blocking cross traffic because "I entered on green". Its the drivers duty to not move forward until they know they can clear the intersection legally.

Others have posted if you enter on green, then you are good. Not true in many states.

As to the right turn on red, if someone doesn't want to, that is there choice. The law does not red "must turn on red when able", it reads may turn on red.

I don't presume to know why someone in front of me is or isn't turning when they need to yield - maybe they see traffic I don't, can't accelerate quickly for some reason, or have pedestrians coming. Fact of the matter is they need to yield, and I respect them figuring out when its legal to go.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: MNgopher
Minnesota State law says you have to clear the intersection before the light turns red. Entering the intersection on a green, and then exiting when the light turns red, even on a left turn on green, is not legal. Under that idea, is OK to enter an intersection you know you will never make it across on the green, and sit there blocking cross traffic because "I entered on green". Its the drivers duty to not move forward until they know they can clear the intersection legally.
Most states have similar laws and entering on green knowing you may not complete the turn before the light turns red is not a get out of jail free card.

 

[Spartanfool]

Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: Leo99
I used to work with someone that woldn't turn right on red. She didn't believe in it.


Yikes.

Although it does beg the question: are you required to turn right on red if it's possible? It sure is nice when everyone does.


"Shall vs. May" Depends on what your state's vehicle code states...

 

[Vern_in_IL]

Stoplights in front of old Walmart locations, actually have red arrows for left hand turns... even when straight ahead traffic is green both ways!

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: MNgopher
As to the right turn on red, if someone doesn't want to, that is there choice.

Here, you could probably get a ticket for obstructing traffic, particularly if it the traffic was exceedingly light or non-existent, which does happen often enough. If someone doesn't turn right on red here, they're automatically assumed to be from Montreal.

 

[doitmyself]

I thought that MNgopher nailed it about clearing the intersection, until I looked up Michigan law:

"The only exception is when you are preparing to make a left turn and you are already within the intersection. You can complete your left turn after oncoming traffic has stopped, even if the light turns red."

And, as already stated, in Michigan turning right on red is not mandatory.

 

[ArrestMeRedZ]

Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
Minnesota State law says you have to clear the intersection before the light turns red. Entering the intersection on a green, and then exiting when the light turns red, even on a left turn on green, is not legal. Under that idea, is OK to enter an intersection you know you will never make it across on the green, and sit there blocking cross traffic because "I entered on green". Its the drivers duty to not move forward until they know they can clear the intersection legally.
Most states have similar laws and entering on green knowing you may not complete the turn before the light turns red is not a get out of jail free card.


2015_PSD, you could not be more wrong. Every state I've driven in (quite a few) allows you to enter an intersection on green or yellow, and exit on red. The most common rule is that your car is past the near crosswalk, or intersection demarcation line before the light turns red.

MNGopher, I just looked up Minnesota statutes:
(2) Steady yellow indication:
(i) Vehicular traffic facing a circular yellow signal is thereby warned that the related green
movement is being terminated or that a red indication will be exhibited immediately thereafter
when vehicular traffic must not enter the intersection, except for the continued movement allowed
by any green arrow indication simultaneously exhibited...and:
(3) Steady red indication:
(i) Vehicular traffic facing a circular red signal alone must stop at a clearly marked stop line
but, if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection or, if none, then
before entering the intersection and shall remain standing until a green indication is shown...

Kind of looks like MN is like the other states, unless you can find a statute that contradicts the above.

 

[MNgopher]

Well, I'll eat a bit of crow here, but not based on what the previous post states.

The proper citation for the issue is Mn Statute 169.15 - Impeding Traffic, Intersection Gridlock, particularly Subdivision 2.

It exempts completing a legal turn, which would include one made when entering an intersection on the green. (If you enter on yellow, this does not apply). It does not exempt you if make this move and there is nowhere to go - ie: the completion of your left turn is dependent on there being space to pull into. If there is not, then you may be cited under 169.15. (Ie: There is no "safe" maneuver to clear the intersection.)

Reality is most of the signals in my area are now either steady green arrows or flashing yellow arrows - which allows traffic to enter the intersection (ie: the must not proceed into the intersection o a steady yellow does not apply. See Mn Statute 169.06 Subd. 7(d) "When a yellow arrow indication is illuminated with rapid intermittent flashes, drivers of vehicles with the intention of making a movement indicated by the arrow may proceed through the intersection or past the signals only with caution..."

My take: in most intersections here, having one additional car clear a signal per cycle will not change the level of service provided by the signal, which is effectively what the OP's original point was.

And again, the language is "may", not shall or must.