Cities thinking of banning red-light turns

[y_p_w]

This article mentions red-light right turns, but I'm sure it also includes red-light left turns between one-way streets. They might do it at specific intersections (I've seen quite a few in my area with no right turn on red signs) or possibly banning them outright throughout the city.

https://www.berkeleyside.org/2022/11/06/berkeley-right-on-red-ban-traffic-sa

I've seen the weird showdown that happens when I'm at a red trying to beat out the green light and there's a pedestrian who is obviously looking to go forward as soon as the walk signal turns on. I'm trying to get in that red-light turn but it can be tricky judging when it will turn green.

I do rather like it at some all-way (including diagonal) pedestrian crossings where the vehicle traffic lights are completely red, and there's no walk signal on any green light.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Just put up some no turn on red signs

 

[mk378]

Just put up some no turn on red signs

Yes, the State law allows turning on red everywhere, unless there is a sign at the particular intersection saying it is not. So the city would have to buy and install signs at all of the lights.

It should be illegal to turn on red across a lit walk light but cars aren't supposed to look at the walk and don't walk lights.

 

[Blueshound]

Just put up some no turn on red signs

Right, almost as effective as the "Use ya blinka" signs in Boston lol.

 

[bdcardinal]

There are 2 intersections I know of in Santa Barbara where both streets are one way and you can do a left on red. It feels wrong, but its legal.

 

[y_p_w]

Yes, the State law allows turning on red everywhere, unless there is a sign at the particular intersection saying it is not. So the city would have to buy and install signs at all of the lights.

It should be illegal to turn on red across a lit walk light but cars aren't supposed to look at the walk and don't walk lights.

I've seen various setups around here that aren't just signs. There's this one intersection near a school, and there's an electronic sign that shows no right turn when it's red, but only during specific time periods. In the evening or weekend (when there's less pedestrian traffic) one can turn right on a red.

 

[brianl703]

Just put up some no turn on red signs

 

[Number_35]

I do rather like it at some all-way (including diagonal) pedestrian crossings where the vehicle traffic lights are completely red, and there's no walk signal on any green light.

Those scramble crosswalks work well. Saw them in the States many years ago. I wish we had them here.

 

[brianl703]

Speaking of pedestrian crossings, has anyone noticed an issue with traffic signals going into a pedestrian cycle when it's raining and nobody's around to have pushed the button?

I've seen that quite a bit here in Northern Virginia, and I happened to be walking past a traffic signal with this problem, and I noticed that the pedestrian button appears to have been installed UPSIDE DOWN. I could see the wires coming out of the metal signal pole and going into the button...and rain water could easily get into the button that way and short it out.

I have a feeling the same literacy-challenged individual (couldn't RTFM) installed all of the ones that around here that malfunction in the rain.

 

[Vern_in_IL]

Here it has become SUPER CONFUSING, we traditonally had red, yellow, green, and a left lane would have red/green arrow, "left turn YEILD on green"

Now we have left turn flashing yellow arrows, and it is "left turn YEILD on YELLOW. (BUT they still have a red and green arrow, so still a left turn yeild on green?????? or you have the ROW on a green?) the sigh says yellow only for the yeild of ROW...... stupid.

 

[DuckRyder]

THIS IS WHAT WE ARE WORRIED ABOUT?

 

[KGMtech]

Follow the Quebec example and don't do this. Turning right on a red is very efficient at improving traffic flow and reducing the number of able bodied pedestrians.

If you really want to endanger pedestrians, and improve traffic flow then Round-abouts are the solution.

 

[brianl703]

Here it has become SUPER CONFUSING, we traditonally had red, yellow, green, and a left lane would have red/green arrow, "left turn YEILD on green"

Now we have left turn flashing yellow arrows, and it is "left turn YEILD on YELLOW. (BUT they still have a red and green arrow, so still a left turn yeild on green?????? or you have the ROW on a green?) the sigh says yellow only for the yeild of ROW...... stupid.

Left turn flashing yellow arrows are a great invention.

They eliminate the "yellow trap" and allow traffic in the left turn lane to permissively make their left turn while the adjacent through-lanes have a red signal.

Which is something that the original "left turn yield on green" indication did NOT allow.

They also (theoretically) allow a traffic signal to change from protected-only to permissive/protected left turns based on the time of day, though I've never seen that done.

And to answer your question, you ALWAYS have the right of way on a green left arrow when making a left turn.

 

[UG_Passat]

All of NYC is "No turn on Red", unless there is an exception sign, or traffic cop directing you

 

[Vern_in_IL]

Left turn flashing yellow arrows are a great invention.

They eliminate the "yellow trap" and allow traffic in the left turn lane to permissively make their left turn while the adjacent through-lanes have a red signal.

Which is something that the original "left turn yield on green" indication did NOT allow.

What is this "yellow trap"? If you are in the left hand turn lane, then the signals will keep the red light on for the oncoming traffic and give you a green left turn yellow. If the signals see not traffic in the left turn lane, then both directions of traffic will get a green at the same time.

You could always left hand turn on a green light, don't need a flashing yellow. (unless posted) and you usually creep into the intersection on a green, and can make your turn on the red to clear out the intersection..

 

[brianl703]

What is this "yellow trap"? If you are in the left hand turn lane, then the signals will keep the red light on for the oncoming traffic and give you a green left turn yellow. If the signals see not traffic in the left turn lane, then both directions of traffic will get a green at the same time.

You could always left hand turn on a green light, don't need a flashing yellow. (unless posted) and you usually creep into the intersection on a green, and can make your turn on the red to clear out the intersection..

A "yellow trap" is when the signal gives YOU a red (circle/ball), making you think that oncoming traffic ALSO has a red, but they don't, they have a green, and you make your left turn with the expectation that oncoming traffic has a red and is going to stop then BAM! T-bone collision!

This can happen for a variety of reasons. There are a number of ways to fix it, but the best way is a flashing yellow arrow which unambiguously communicates to the left-turning driver that they must yield to oncoming traffic.

By the way, the "Yellow Trap" has been prohibited by the Manual of Uniform Traffic Control devices for at least 20 years now, but there are STILL intersections where it happens. SEVERAL in a city nearby that's gone crazy installing red light cameras "for safety". One would think that if they were concerned about safety they would fix these intersections, but I digress.... (Years ago I tried to bring the problem to the attention of the good 'ole boy in charge of traffic signals in that city. Waste of time. The man is a moron, clearly hired for who he knows, not what he knows.)

And as I said, another benefit of the flashing yellow arrow is..

The old way:

I arrive at an intersection too late to get a green left arrow. Even if there is no opposing through traffic, or it's minimal, I must now sit and wait until the opposing left turn traffic clears out so I get a green circle indication and can make my left turn.

The new flashing yellow arrow way:

I arrive at an intersection too late to get a green left arrow. The flashing left yellow arrow on my side starts flashing as soon the opposing left turn traffic gets their green arrow. I can make my left turn as soon as opposing through traffic clears out. I don't need to wait until the opposing left turn traffic clears out so I get a green circle indication.

 

[Snagglefoot]

With our red light rule, you have to come to a complete stop, then turn. Some folks think you can just whiz around the corner with no stop.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

With our red light rule, you have to come to a complete stop, then turn. Some folks think you can just whiz around the corner with no stop.

It's the same in the US. The illegal "California stop" of slowing down to a crawl and then turning is more common traffic permitting.

 

[zzyzzx]

THIS IS WHAT WE ARE WORRIED ABOUT?

Apparently we have solved all our other problems! /s

 

[bbhero]

Left turn flashing yellow arrows are a great invention.

They eliminate the "yellow trap" and allow traffic in the left turn lane to permissively make their left turn while the adjacent through-lanes have a red signal.

Which is something that the original "left turn yield on green" indication did NOT allow.

They also (theoretically) allow a traffic signal to change from protected-only to permissive/protected left turns based on the time of day, though I've never seen that done.

And to answer your question, you ALWAYS have the right of way on a green left arrow when making a left turn.

No..... Not it's a horrible idea at times in real practice.

IF these flashing yellow lights are done during slow traffic times .. ok yeah it's a fine idea.



However, in my area these stpid flashing left turn yellow lights are allowed at all times of the day. Which is plain foolishness. Routine accidents happen because of these magic flashing yellow lights. Because morons make stupid decisions ROUTINELY...