Audi specifies 10K OCI in the US.
Double-Super-Secret 5W-40 Audi RS4 Racing Oil
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The 40W was a test. No more no less. It handles fuel dilution as well as the 5W-40. All other information on testing it is proprietary. I've released enough professional-level testing on this forum for the foreseeable future. If you want more information on it I suggest that you purchase some and test it in your own engines. It really is as good as I say it is, and is better than any other oil that is currently on the market, by a huge margin. I am sure that is unbelievable to some, and unsettling to others, but it is, in fact, true.
I, and a few of my colleagues, have risked the life of our $25K engines to BioSyn, and have run the oil harder on the track than most cars will ever see. We've backed up our anecdotal road and track testing with an exemplary oil analysis record, which I have published. Ultimately, for performance reasons, I'd like to run the lightest oil in the engine that I can that still withstands fuel dilution. But, currently I would trust this engine's life with the 5W-40 blend. By extension and similarity, I cannot think of any engine that has fuel dilute problems, that would not benefit from this formulation.
Hold up there, pardner. Nobody forced you to post anything on here about your engine or the oil you use in it. But once you chose to do so, you opened yourself up to questions. If you don't want any questions, I suggest you don't post.
You told me you were going to try the straight 40, so I was naturally curious as to how it did in comparison to the 5w40. I wasn't asking for any "professional-level testing" results.
RI_RS4,
So, you have tested 5W40 & SAE40. Any plans to continue testing other grades with winter approaching and going to the "thin" side of 40?
Either way, you have opened the eyes of many to a solution that can reap huge rewards. Kudos.
So, you have tested 5W40 & SAE40. Any plans to continue testing other grades with winter approaching and going to the "thin" side of 40?
Either way, you have opened the eyes of many to a solution that can reap huge rewards. Kudos.
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Hold up there, pardner. Nobody forced you to post anything on here about your engine or the oil you use in it. But once you chose to do so, you opened yourself up to questions. If you don't want any questions, I suggest you don't post.
You told me you were going to try the straight 40, so I was naturally curious as to how it did in comparison to the 5w40. I wasn't asking for any "professional-level testing" results.
G-Man, right. I did answer your question. But I did put some limits on the detail that my answer will go in to. You seem to not like my answer, but I never said not to ask questions.
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Hold up there, pardner. Nobody forced you to post anything on here about your engine or the oil you use in it. But once you chose to do so, you opened yourself up to questions. If you don't want any questions, I suggest you don't post.
You told me you were going to try the straight 40, so I was naturally curious as to how it did in comparison to the 5w40. I wasn't asking for any "professional-level testing" results.
G-Man, right. I did answer your question. But I did put some limits on the detail that my answer will go in to. You seem to not like my answer, but I never said not to ask questions.
In the BMW thread I asked you about wear numbers. You said wear number were about the same.
In this thread I asked about the fuel dilution issue, i.e., how is the straight 40 holding up viscosity wise compared to the 5w40. Two different, but related, questions.
I don't know where you get it that I don't like your answers. I'm a slut for oil info, little or lots...so I like all your answers.
Fair enough.
The results are impressive and thanks again for sharing the info you have.
These engines clearly need something other than API 502 oil. Other than RLI, I think I would run a Motor Cycle oil in these engines. They have no VII's and are doped up on anti-wear additives.
These engines clearly need something other than API 502 oil. Other than RLI, I think I would run a Motor Cycle oil in these engines. They have no VII's and are doped up on anti-wear additives.
Just to be clear, it is a combination of the Bio-esters and the patented copper-antimony additive package in RLI BioSyn that produces the exceptionally low wear numbers in this oil. The low wear has little to do with viscosity stability in this oil, or in Mobil 1 for that matter.
It ain't the VII's in M1 that causes its wear problems in some engines. It's the specific additives used.
It ain't the VII's in M1 that causes its wear problems in some engines. It's the specific additives used.
GMan....U crack me up
I have already spoken to Terry about my car. I have a second 335i due for delivery in about a week. I'm not going to bother with all the analysis on the first since I'd rather analyze the new engine as it breaks in and apply what we find there to the engine with 10k miles on it. I will also likely sell the first.
I will share my break-in UOA (whatever Terry allows me to share) here after 1,200 miles, which should only take about 3-4 weeks. At 1,200 miles I will try the RLI 5w40 to see how it holds up in such a volatile environment.
sounds like a great plan, reb. We had an RS4 owner who switched over to RLI 5W40 after 2K miles with exceptional wear and fuel dilution control.
You might want to take one UOA sample of the first 335i, as a point of reference for later UOA comparisons. If your wear and fuel numbers with RLI cross over to lower values at an earlier mileage, you'll know you're on the right track.
You might want to take one UOA sample of the first 335i, as a point of reference for later UOA comparisons. If your wear and fuel numbers with RLI cross over to lower values at an earlier mileage, you'll know you're on the right track.
Good idea though since the first car is a lease it still has the original oil from the factory. The car has just under 10k miles, two track days and never received a post 1,200 mile change. And, the computer tells me it’s not due for an oil change for 7k miles. Hey, BMW’s car and I had no intention of keeping it past the lease term so I decided I’d follow their maintenance schedule. This “free maintenance” is such a joke.
I'm buying the next car though so I will take good and proper care of it just as I did my M3s. The oil from the first car should open a few eyes if it proves to have similar issues as you found in the RS4.
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RI_RS4
Please under stand that I'am still (after 33 years) learning in this industry and have and still are learning triboligy from some of the best researchers around.
The one thing in common that all the people I have had an association with is that ANY data is up for peer review and questioning nothing is taken at face value, I tend to follow that thinking and as such all my coments may sound "off the cuff" but are "nothing personal" just looking to fully learn and understand any info perhaps from a different angle.
And since some info you have is not released that makes it more diffcult to fully understand and prove out new systems.
That said the picture of the valve cover looks to me to have a gold varnish/insoluble film on it as evidenced by the Oil fill cap gasket mating surface being White NOT gold and showing the gasket imprint. I would love to see this cover new uninstalled from a dealers parts box.
Unless this valve cover is made new with the oil fill hole white with the balance yellow this looks like a gold/brown film.
Also I think that since you are happy with this oil that is ALL that is important.
Also years ago I used Antimony in a gear oil and had at a small level over 850KG pass load in the 4 ball. Good stuff just to high dollar for me for my PCMO applications.
For the record the only problem I have with this oil is some of the "marketing" info on the data sheet NOT the oil it self.
And with this or any other boutique oil is the high price that may or maynot be "worth" the exspense but that is everyones decision to make.
I do like a robust add pak and do agree that the AW/FM additives are lowering wear numbers, and I do think there are a few other things in there not showing. I do also think that the high shear stability and high vis is helping to seal the rings and reduce fuel dilution.
Glad it works well.
Bruce
Please under stand that I'am still (after 33 years) learning in this industry and have and still are learning triboligy from some of the best researchers around.
The one thing in common that all the people I have had an association with is that ANY data is up for peer review and questioning nothing is taken at face value, I tend to follow that thinking and as such all my coments may sound "off the cuff" but are "nothing personal" just looking to fully learn and understand any info perhaps from a different angle.
And since some info you have is not released that makes it more diffcult to fully understand and prove out new systems.
That said the picture of the valve cover looks to me to have a gold varnish/insoluble film on it as evidenced by the Oil fill cap gasket mating surface being White NOT gold and showing the gasket imprint. I would love to see this cover new uninstalled from a dealers parts box.
Unless this valve cover is made new with the oil fill hole white with the balance yellow this looks like a gold/brown film.
Also I think that since you are happy with this oil that is ALL that is important.
Also years ago I used Antimony in a gear oil and had at a small level over 850KG pass load in the 4 ball. Good stuff just to high dollar for me for my PCMO applications.
For the record the only problem I have with this oil is some of the "marketing" info on the data sheet NOT the oil it self.
And with this or any other boutique oil is the high price that may or maynot be "worth" the exspense but that is everyones decision to make.
I do like a robust add pak and do agree that the AW/FM additives are lowering wear numbers, and I do think there are a few other things in there not showing. I do also think that the high shear stability and high vis is helping to seal the rings and reduce fuel dilution.
Glad it works well.
Bruce
Bruce, we are all learning, and I appreciate your questions. Just to be sure I went out to look at the valve cover. What you are seeing is an artifact of the flash. There is no line of demarcation like you see in the photo. The valve cover is a yellow plastic throughout. When I get a chance, I'll take another picture without flash and PM you with it this week.
E36: I have no desire to return to one of the 502 approved oils, since BioSyn dropped my wear by 3:1 and increased my oil lifetime by at least 2:1. However, there are other owners, who are analyzing their oil with Terry Dyson, that have chosen to stay with 502 oil. In all cases, wear is significantly higher at all engine mileages we can compare at. We have multiple engines that changed to BioSyn at various mileages, including 2K, 5K, 10K and 15K miles, which can be used to crosscheck BioSyn wear numbers, and provide a point of comparison to other oil types in other RS4 engines.
We currently have 57 total UOA sample points (15 for BioSyn) across 17 RS4s, from 600 to 30,000 miles.
We currently have 57 total UOA sample points (15 for BioSyn) across 17 RS4s, from 600 to 30,000 miles.
''When I get a chance, I'll take another picture without flash and PM you with it this week.'''
no need to take picture if that is the case
Thanks
bruce
no need to take picture if that is the case
Thanks
bruce
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In the face of results like those, you'd be crazy to go back to a 502 oil. I can't believe everyone in your RS4 club isn't scrambling to use RLI oil.
I have to agree with you G-MAN. I think many owners may think it's too good to be true or have concern about voiding the warranty on a $30,000 engine. In any case I'm going to go with RLI after 1,200 miles in the 335i to see what the numbers show. It will be interesting to see how the two DI engines compare.
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