DOT 4 Class 6 Instead of DOT 3?

[tbm5690]

Can I use a low viscosity (DOT 4 Class 6) fluid in a brake system calling for standard DOT 3/DOT 4? My VW calls for the low visc and it would be easier if I could just run that in the Acura as well. For what it's worth I'm in a very cold climate so for the ABS/traction control functionality it sounds beneficial but I've been unable to find a clear answer with the search tool. TIA.

 

[barryh]

I use the low viscosity class 6 fluid in everything including my 44 year old BMW Motorcycle. Works fine with no problems over 5 years and makes gravity bleeding on the bike easier.

 

[The Critic]

Yes, but make sure it gets changed at least every 2 years (instead of 3) unless the fluid manufacturer states a longer interval.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Yes, you can use LV DOT 4 with no problem

 

[ctechbob]

Can I use a low viscosity (DOT 4 Class 6) fluid in a brake system calling for standard DOT 3/DOT 4? My VW calls for the low visc and it would be easier if I could just run that in the Acura as well. For what it's worth I'm in a very cold climate so for the ABS/traction control functionality it sounds beneficial but I've been unable to find a clear answer with the search tool. TIA.

Timely. I just did a flush on my Ranger that calls for Dot 4 LV, used Bosch ESI6 and was contemplating using it in the Acura/Honda as well.

 

[tbm5690]

Timely. I just did a flush on my Ranger that calls for Dot 4 LV, used Bosch ESI6 and was contemplating using it in the Acura/Honda as well.

Same fluid I'm looking at, looks like a solid choice.

 

[ctechbob]

Same fluid I'm looking at, looks like a solid choice.

Not terribly expensive either. Only a few bucks more per quart than the Valvoline I've been using in the Honda cars forever now.

 

[dubber09]

Every time I change brake fluid past few years I use Bosch ESI6, Kias, Acura, other cars. So far so good.

 

[UG_Passat]

Can I use a low viscosity (DOT 4 Class 6) fluid in a brake system calling for standard DOT 3/DOT 4? My VW calls for the low visc and it would be easier if I could just run that in the Acura as well. For what it's worth I'm in a very cold climate so for the ABS/traction control functionality it sounds beneficial but I've been unable to find a clear answer with the search tool. TIA.

I know it's easier to buy one thing for all cars.

I don't know how the VSC in the acura would react with DOT 4 Class 6.

On the other hand, if you don't put a low viscosity DOT 4 fluid in the VW, it makes it more fun in the winter time, as you have more time to slide before the ESP kicks in, so the stuff they say about DOT 4 Class 6 in German ABS/ESP pumps are true.

 

[UG_Passat]

I also use Bosch Esi6 fluid in systems designed for DOT 3, and it appears to me that YOU are the one who is "behind the times." Bosch Esi6 MANUFACTURER states that this fluid is "compatible with Dot 3, Dot 4, and Dot 5.1" It is a SUPERIOR fluid that didn't exist when my vehicle's owners manual was written. If you know how to spell "liability," you should know that a brake fluid MANUFACTURER isn't going to "get away with" making unfounded/unsubstianted claims. My advice to you sir (without name calling) is that YOU need to go check out the website for Bosch Esi6 and report back to BITOG.

DOT4 Class 6 is a glycol ether based fluid, just like DOT 3, 4 and 5.1. That's all that statement means.

If someone claimed a DOT 5 is compatible with the glycol ether based brake fluid... then that you should question.

 

[edyvw]

I know it's easier to buy one thing for all cars.

I don't know how the VSC in the acura would react with DOT 4 Class 6.

On the other hand, if you don't put a low viscosity DOT 4 fluid in the VW, it makes it more fun in the winter time, as you have more time to slide before the ESP kicks in, so the stuff they say about DOT 4 Class 6 in German ABS/ESP pumps are true.

I have never had issue in VW or BMW with regular DOT4. Always used ATE TYP200.
Compared to Asian vehicles, VW will give more control to a driver. I found Toyota Sienna to be borderline dangerous if you are having control over vehicle and doing controlled slide. And using TYP200 in Toyota didn’t change behavior whatsoever. Though, master cylinder did fail.

 

[UG_Passat]

I have never had issue in VW or BMW with regular DOT4. Always used ATE TYP200.
Compared to Asian vehicles, VW will give more control to a driver. I found Toyota Sienna to be borderline dangerous if you are having control over vehicle and doing controlled slide. And using TYP200 in Toyota didn’t change behavior whatsoever. Though, master cylinder did fail.

VW doesn't feel American drivers deserve control of their cars. Early VW's with ESP, the ESP can be defeated. But later, VW decided ESP cannot be defeated, only ASR/EDL, or in certain cars, cannot be defeated since a switch for it wasn't provided. Both your Atlas and Tiguan, you cannot turn off ESP, just ASR (or in the Atlas, turn to ASR Sport). That's not more control to the driver.

And for the longest time, VW felt Americans were too dumb to be given the running lights position on their headlight switch, yet Audi drivers were smart enough for driving with the rear fog lights on, during a perfectly clear night.

 

[edyvw]

VW doesn't feel American drivers deserve control of their cars. Early VW's with ESP, the ESP can be defeated. But later, VW decided ESP cannot be defeated, only ASR/EDL, or in certain cars, cannot be defeated since a switch for it wasn't provided. Both your Atlas and Tiguan, you cannot turn off ESP, just ASR (or in the Atlas, turn to ASR Sport). That's not more control to the driver.
View attachment 164099

And for the longest time, VW felt Americans were too dumb to be given the running lights position on their headlight switch, yet Audi drivers were smart enough for driving with the rear fog lights on, during a perfectly clear night.

I am not sure what this has to do with brake fluid.
I am very well aware of what you can turn off or not, but on Tiguan, you can turn off ESP completely, at least one prior to 2013. Still irrelevant, as it worked fine with DOT4LV and works fine with DOT4. The same goes for Atlas. You cannot turn it off, still allows a lot of control, it is not nearly as intrusive as Toyota or Honda I have and works with both types of fluid fine.
I drove all those vehicles, including Toyota, and needed ESP in temperatures as low as -40, and it works fine with DOT3 and DOT4.
But maybe, DOT4LV is for some something like a security blanket. Who knows.

 

[dubber09]

Why would anyone mix DOT3, 4 and 5.1 on purpose? The only times mix should occur is when one is in the boonies and brake fluid level is at dangerously low level and they top up with what's available. All other times - full volume replacement (and some) effectively replacing all fluid in the braking system - reservoir, lines and calipers.

 

[barryh]

It's a separate debate from topic of this thread which is viscosity but no one should be thinking of favouring Dot 5.1 unless they are prepared to change the fluid more often. 5.1 may have a higher performance when new but is more hygroscopic than 4 and 4 is more hygroscopic than 3. Those who don't change the fluid for years on end might be best served with Dot 3.

 

[The Critic]

Why would anyone mix DOT3, 4 and 5.1 on purpose? The only times mix should occur is when one is in the boonies and brake fluid level is at dangerously low level and they top up with what's available. All other times - full volume replacement (and some) effectively replacing all fluid in the braking system - reservoir, lines and calipers.

Because shops don't care?

A vehicle may be factory filled with DOT3. Driver takes the vehicle to a shop and is upsold BG/MOC brake fluid exchange and they perform a half-a$$ "exchange" using "DOT4." Then a year later, a different shop upsells the service again during a brake job and the same vehicle may receive DOT3 again.

 

[dubber09]

You seem to like making long posts. While not very informative.
I was talking about mixing brake fluids. Why mix them, who does that, why?

 

[Merek]

Yes you can use DOT4 class 6 in your vehicle. I used the Liqui Moly in my '13 Ninja 650 and had my '04 GMC Sierra flushed out with what I had leftover. It's supposed to be better for ABS brakes.

 

[nthach]

FWIW, DOT 4LV also makes ABS/ESP response quicker but more transparent in cars that don’t call for it. Case in point, I lost traction in a car I flushed DOT 3 out with ATE SL6 - I noticed the ESP intervention was quicker and smoother while the car recovered.

 

[michaelluscher]

The title actually poses a very good question
Let's take a Ford Recall/TSB for example
Anyone who knows CD3 cars knows the ABS modulator/pumps are failure prone, causing a loss of braking ability

"In some of the affected vehicles, a chemical reaction between aged DOT 3 brake fluid and the zinc plating
inside the Hydraulic Control Unit (HCU) may result in a gel formation. A normally closed valve may be stuck
open, which may result in extended brake pedal travel"

Remember, all these cars were factory recommended to use DOT 3

The solution is
"If the HCU passes the inspection, the brake system will be pressure flushed with DOT 4 brake fluid,
the DOT 3 reservoir cap will be replaced with a new DOT 4 cap, and you will receive an updated
owner’s guide insert"

The fluid they recommended is Motorcraft PM-20 DOT 4 LV

• New Low Viscosity formulation, faster response at lower temperatures
• Recommended for new ABS brake systems with stability control
• Check brake fluid reservoir cap or master cylinder reservoir, owner guide and / or workshop manual for proper brake fluid usage
• Required for certain vehicles beginning in 2012-2013 model years
• Meets FMVSS DOT 4 and ISO 4925 Class 6 standards

Now while it's not 100% gospel, I think this is a perfectly acceptable justification for using DOT4 LV in a DOT3 setting

As long as the shorter service life of 4/4LV is understood

Neither my Fusion/Milan fall into the date ranges for the recall/CSP, but I think it would be reasonable of me to use DOT4 LV the next time I do a thorough brake fluid flush and pressure bleed?

I would think it's gotta be better than the factory DOT3 that's in there now?