Don't understand the auto industry...
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Originally Posted By: 1001hobbies
I don't think anyone is being exonophobic and the US is about bankrupt and a lot of it is due to china. You might be in some low volume niche industry that is not worthwhile for the Chinese to take over. And even if the loss of industry in general is not decreasing demand for your niche industry, niche industries are not going to keep very many American employed. That's a small fish. What happens if for some reason one were to lose the job in a niche industry, then what?
OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: mpvue
1001hobbies said:
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
They want to buy cheap Chinese tires because Michelin's are too expensive.
My tires were made in Ohio and are only a couple dollars more than Sunnys or Linglongs.
For a few bucks more? I'll pick the US made product everytime. I'm happy to pay the extra as long as it's within reason. Sometimes it's not though. I like Briggs and Stratton a lot but a comparable B&S powered generator was literally 3X more than the Chinese Champion. If it had been 50% more I would almost certainly have a B&S powered generator now.
As far as the Chinese tools? I am still of the opinion that union made US handtools are the best in the world. The tools I earn my living with are almost all US made. I'm not immune to the deals at Harbor Freight. I've actually found a few gems there, most of it is junk though.
I don't think of it as "slitting my neighbor's throat to save a nickel." I purchase US when I can. But 3X more is not working for me. Especially when it is likely chock f\ull of Chinese components
They want to buy cheap Chinese tires because Michelin's are too expensive.
My tires were made in Ohio and are only a couple dollars more than Sunnys or Linglongs.
For a few bucks more? I'll pick the US made product everytime. I'm happy to pay the extra as long as it's within reason. Sometimes it's not though. I like Briggs and Stratton a lot but a comparable B&S powered generator was literally 3X more than the Chinese Champion. If it had been 50% more I would almost certainly have a B&S powered generator now.
As far as the Chinese tools? I am still of the opinion that union made US handtools are the best in the world. The tools I earn my living with are almost all US made. I'm not immune to the deals at Harbor Freight. I've actually found a few gems there, most of it is junk though.
I don't think of it as "slitting my neighbor's throat to save a nickel." I purchase US when I can. But 3X more is not working for me. Especially when it is likely chock f\ull of Chinese components
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
They want to buy cheap Chinese tires because Michelin's are too expensive.
My tires were made in Ohio and are only a couple dollars more than Sunnys or Linglongs.
For a few bucks more? I'll pick the US made product everytime. I'm happy to pay the extra as long as it's within reason. Sometimes it's not though. I like Briggs and Stratton a lot but a comparable B&S powered generator was literally 3X more than the Chinese Champion. If it had been 50% more I would almost certainly have a B&S powered generator now.
As far as the Chinese tools? I am still of the opinion that union made US handtools are the best in the world. The tools I earn my living with are almost all US made. I'm not immune to the deals at Harbor Freight. I've actually found a few gems there, most of it is junk though.
I don't think of it as "slitting my neighbor's throat to save a nickel." I purchase US when I can. But 3X more is not working for me. Especially when it is likely chock f\ull of Chinese components
But you've just professed to doing more than most. I have some Chinese made Cisco gear. There is no American alternative. And of course Cisco is an American company.
But, like yourself, I try to buy American/Canadian when I can. And am willing to pay a lot more for tools, because they are a one-time purchase. It's not like I'll ever need to go buy a replacement 3/8ths ratchet. The Snap-On one will out-live me. So it is a one-time investment.
The tires point was just an example. I have US-made Michelin's, but the same goes for any brand that makes tires in the USA. It doesn't take much effort to check and buy accordingly. If more people would just take the effort, this wouldn't be as much of an issue.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
They want to buy cheap Chinese tires because Michelin's are too expensive.
My tires were made in Ohio and are only a couple dollars more than Sunnys or Linglongs.
For a few bucks more? I'll pick the US made product everytime. I'm happy to pay the extra as long as it's within reason. Sometimes it's not though. I like Briggs and Stratton a lot but a comparable B&S powered generator was literally 3X more than the Chinese Champion. If it had been 50% more I would almost certainly have a B&S powered generator now.
As far as the Chinese tools? I am still of the opinion that union made US handtools are the best in the world. The tools I earn my living with are almost all US made. I'm not immune to the deals at Harbor Freight. I've actually found a few gems there, most of it is junk though.
I don't think of it as "slitting my neighbor's throat to save a nickel." I purchase US when I can. But 3X more is not working for me. Especially when it is likely chock f\ull of Chinese components
But you've just professed to doing more than most. I have some Chinese made Cisco gear. There is no American alternative. And of course Cisco is an American company.
But, like yourself, I try to buy American/Canadian when I can. And am willing to pay a lot more for tools, because they are a one-time purchase. It's not like I'll ever need to go buy a replacement 3/8ths ratchet. The Snap-On one will out-live me. So it is a one-time investment.
The tires point was just an example. I have US-made Michelin's, but the same goes for any brand that makes tires in the USA. It doesn't take much effort to check and buy accordingly. If more people would just take the effort, this wouldn't be as much of an issue.
The media and a lot of businesses push things like Chinese made tires because they can sell them at the same price or even slightly less and make more profit. So any time you read that import product xyz is good quality, great value etc you cannot believe it. Most of the consumers are brainwashed by the media and just repeat the mantra to others. Then you probably do have a few odd consumers that will purchase foreign products just to spite American workers
. I don't see how an honest American producers can compete with all that.
Originally Posted By: mpvue
1001hobbies said:
Originally Posted By: 1001hobbies
Originally Posted By: mpvue
Originally Posted By: mpvue
1001hobbies said:
Yes, like I said, I hate to think that we need to be especially considerate of ANY race of employees. I don't like, that in this country where anyone has more opportunity than anywhere else in the world, that they would have to be subject to particular scrutiny that other prospective employees would not, but this consideration is the result of what the Chinese government has done, not what people here have done. Those people who the Chinese government, and some Chinese corporations, have had get employed in high tech companies in the US for the purpose of stealing that technology are the ones to blame.
I am certainly not advocating that all or even most Chinese employees are spies. As a percentage it is minute to be sure, yet for certain companies with unique technology it is something that needs to be kept in the back of the mind becasue of all the recorded cases. I agree about the can of worms, but now when I go to the airport I am subject to searches for which there is no need, but the realities of the day have made it a responsible consideration. (That is actually another topic) I hope all works out well for you and you don't ever have any of those concerns.
Steve
I am certainly not advocating that all or even most Chinese employees are spies. As a percentage it is minute to be sure, yet for certain companies with unique technology it is something that needs to be kept in the back of the mind becasue of all the recorded cases. I agree about the can of worms, but now when I go to the airport I am subject to searches for which there is no need, but the realities of the day have made it a responsible consideration. (That is actually another topic) I hope all works out well for you and you don't ever have any of those concerns.
Steve
Inside the front cover of the catalog published by Starrett is a quote by the founder, L.S. Starrett.
It reads:
"I have believed that I could do no greater good than help create a business that would give people employment and a chance to earn an honest living."
It says nothing about profits, and although profits are important for a company to remain in business, people are the focus.
Many years ago while visiting my grandmother, I was looking through her bookshelf to see what may be interesting. My grandfather was a machinist at Iowa Manufacturing until he passed away in 1971, and there were some books of his that caught my eye since they were very old. One of them was a manual for business owners and managers about how to run their business. Most of it dealt with ethics and character.
About 11 years ago while making a regular sales call at the maintenance dept. of a Teledyne Water Pik plant, one of the machinists was complaining about the molds they were dealing with for their injection molding machines. He said they had recently changed their supplier to a company in Brazil, and they weren't nearly as well-made as their local source. He said someone got a nice fat bonus for changing suppliers because of the supposed cost-savings. What wasn't accounted for, was that they had to rework those molds because of the lower quality, therefore negating any savings.
A few years ago, I'm at the hardware store staring at a wall of washers and o-rings, so I can repair the leak in my Delta shower faucet. I find the ones required for the repair and see that there are two choices. Genuine Delta and off-brand, with what appears to be the same parts but with a 2x price discrepency. I turn the packages over and read that Delta is made in USA, while the off-brand is made in China. No surprise there. Figuring that the Delta product is made with better raw materials, held to tighter tolerances, and will most likely last longer, as well as help my fellow Americans, this choice was a no-brainer.
I said all that, to say this. I don't believe the average consumer knows or cares where the products are made. All they know is they got laid off or had a pay cut and their faucet is leaking.
Hypothetical:
Joe Blow chooses the made in China faucet washers as well as most other Chinese products because they are cheaper.
Facing stiff competition from Chinese or otherwise off-shore manufacturers, Starrett, Water Pik, and Delta, are forced to source Chinese parts due to the ultra-low wages for labor.
Joe Blow buys Chinese Starrett, Water Pik, and Delta products, because they are now competitively priced.
Insert any American manufacturer and rinse, repeat...
What Joe Blow isn't aware of, is that in the big picture he's only hurting himself and the job he saves may just be his own.
It's a much more complex subject than I'm able to intelligently discuss, but when companies are more concerned about profits than they are with anything else, this is what you get. We live in a society that will allow professional athletes to pretty much do whatever they want, as long as they contribute to the bottom line. Unfortunately, it's all about money, and that's about it. If I'm not mistaken, schools teach the future business leaders of today more about profits and shareholders, and less about ethics and character. For some, the end justifies the means.
My 2 cents,
T
It reads:
"I have believed that I could do no greater good than help create a business that would give people employment and a chance to earn an honest living."
It says nothing about profits, and although profits are important for a company to remain in business, people are the focus.
Many years ago while visiting my grandmother, I was looking through her bookshelf to see what may be interesting. My grandfather was a machinist at Iowa Manufacturing until he passed away in 1971, and there were some books of his that caught my eye since they were very old. One of them was a manual for business owners and managers about how to run their business. Most of it dealt with ethics and character.
About 11 years ago while making a regular sales call at the maintenance dept. of a Teledyne Water Pik plant, one of the machinists was complaining about the molds they were dealing with for their injection molding machines. He said they had recently changed their supplier to a company in Brazil, and they weren't nearly as well-made as their local source. He said someone got a nice fat bonus for changing suppliers because of the supposed cost-savings. What wasn't accounted for, was that they had to rework those molds because of the lower quality, therefore negating any savings.
A few years ago, I'm at the hardware store staring at a wall of washers and o-rings, so I can repair the leak in my Delta shower faucet. I find the ones required for the repair and see that there are two choices. Genuine Delta and off-brand, with what appears to be the same parts but with a 2x price discrepency. I turn the packages over and read that Delta is made in USA, while the off-brand is made in China. No surprise there. Figuring that the Delta product is made with better raw materials, held to tighter tolerances, and will most likely last longer, as well as help my fellow Americans, this choice was a no-brainer.
I said all that, to say this. I don't believe the average consumer knows or cares where the products are made. All they know is they got laid off or had a pay cut and their faucet is leaking.
Hypothetical:
Joe Blow chooses the made in China faucet washers as well as most other Chinese products because they are cheaper.
Facing stiff competition from Chinese or otherwise off-shore manufacturers, Starrett, Water Pik, and Delta, are forced to source Chinese parts due to the ultra-low wages for labor.
Joe Blow buys Chinese Starrett, Water Pik, and Delta products, because they are now competitively priced.
Insert any American manufacturer and rinse, repeat...
What Joe Blow isn't aware of, is that in the big picture he's only hurting himself and the job he saves may just be his own.
It's a much more complex subject than I'm able to intelligently discuss, but when companies are more concerned about profits than they are with anything else, this is what you get. We live in a society that will allow professional athletes to pretty much do whatever they want, as long as they contribute to the bottom line. Unfortunately, it's all about money, and that's about it. If I'm not mistaken, schools teach the future business leaders of today more about profits and shareholders, and less about ethics and character. For some, the end justifies the means.
My 2 cents,
T
TMoto, really good post.
I have to admit that years ago I was the "typical consumer" because of low wages and bought what would get me the most for my money rather than quality American made products. I did, however, learn something from this.
I would have to buy those cheap Chinese products 3 times because of a lack of durability. In the end, I could have spent the same amount of money, or less, on the single American made product that would have caused me to avoid doing the repair 3 times. I don't always have time to do a repair so sometimes it has to wait, which means I cannot use the item as intended even longer.
Now I spend money for quality. I cannot afford cheap.
While Americans are getting used to buying very cheap Chinese made items the American companies see that as acceptance of them and move their production to China. These cheap items help people cope with low wages, which helps keep the public from demanding a fairer pay since Walmart "has it" at a price they can afford. It's smoke and mirrors.
Steve
I have to admit that years ago I was the "typical consumer" because of low wages and bought what would get me the most for my money rather than quality American made products. I did, however, learn something from this.
I would have to buy those cheap Chinese products 3 times because of a lack of durability. In the end, I could have spent the same amount of money, or less, on the single American made product that would have caused me to avoid doing the repair 3 times. I don't always have time to do a repair so sometimes it has to wait, which means I cannot use the item as intended even longer.
Now I spend money for quality. I cannot afford cheap.
While Americans are getting used to buying very cheap Chinese made items the American companies see that as acceptance of them and move their production to China. These cheap items help people cope with low wages, which helps keep the public from demanding a fairer pay since Walmart "has it" at a price they can afford. It's smoke and mirrors.
Steve
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