Done with manual trans.

[BeanCounter]

Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Some folks cite bad knees for not liking to work the clutch, and that is a valid point. I have knee problems too, but thankfully it has not affected my driving a manual transmission. My '95 F150 is a lot easier on the knees than the old '77 F150 was. Funny, I drove a coworker's small manual trans car once on official travel (abt 10 yrs ago), think it was a Mazda or like, and it was actually hard to get used to working the clutch because it was so light on pressure. I am used to a good heavy feeling clutch (by mid-90s pickup standards) and that thing was like a feather.


That's funny. Exactly the description of my two vehicles. It takes me about a quarter of a mile to get used to one after I have been driving the other.

 

[TallPaul]

No doubt in my mind that a decent automatic transmission that has nice firm shifts and a powerful engine in front of it would be a blast to drive. I still prefer the manual transmission and if yo are going with a 4 banger it is even more important to get the manual transmission to avoid the power loss from the slush factor. They used to call automatic transmissions slushboxes.

 

[UNC017]

You know, the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about is the fact that the manual trans is going the way of the dinosaur except for very specific sport and HD applications, no matter how much we like it. Its incompatible with the most efficient hybrid drivetrain designs. Its less efficient than a modern 5- or 6-speed automatic when the engine and transmission are controlled by a common processor that optimizes both. Even moreso with a CVT type automatic (if you can all a CVT anything BUT automatic). Clutch replacements cost more over the life of a vehicle than auto trans maintenance since most automatics last 200k miles or more now. Emissions are higher (or at least cant be guaranteed low) when the driver has control of the manual trans.

All more reasons to hang on to my Jeep, I guess.

 

[Tornado Red]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Clutch replacements cost more over the life of a vehicle than auto trans maintenance since most automatics last 200k miles or more now. Emissions are higher (or at least cant be guaranteed low) when the driver has control of the manual trans.


I did replace my clutch at about 200k miles, and hope that the upgraded one I installed will last even longer. That cost me about $400 plus labor. But rebuilt automatic transmissions cost up to $4,000 plus labor and many OE transmissions don't last much over 100k miles.

 

[Steve S]

The next Ferrari I buy will have an automatic transmission for sure.

 

[ClarkB]

Originally Posted By: Tornado Red
...But rebuilt automatic transmissions cost up to $4,000 plus labor and many OE transmissions don't last much over 100k miles.


Really?

Clark

 

[Dualie]

I don't mind manuals as long as their behind something with TORQUE! The 18spd in the Kenworth is fun, with 1850 Ft. Lbs of torque you on flat ground or down hill you can roll of the line in the low side of third and with 4 gear swaps be up to high way crusing speed loaded. Traffic is crawling, you can put it in low low and get passed by snails. I have actually got out and walked along side of the truck in low low several times.

The F-150 with the 300 C.I. 6 Cyl is also not to bad to drive in stop and go traffic. Its all about picking a speed and staying with it you will wear you [censored] out trying to grab every gear only to have to stop again.

with that said all of my daily driver pickups are auto's

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
You know, the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about is the fact that the manual trans is going the way of the dinosaur except for very specific sport and HD applications, no matter how much we like it. Its incompatible with the most efficient hybrid drivetrain designs. Its less efficient than a modern 5- or 6-speed automatic when the engine and transmission are controlled by a common processor that optimizes both. Even moreso with a CVT type automatic (if you can all a CVT anything BUT automatic). Clutch replacements cost more over the life of a vehicle than auto trans maintenance since most automatics last 200k miles or more now. Emissions are higher (or at least cant be guaranteed low) when the driver has control of the manual trans.

All more reasons to hang on to my Jeep, I guess.


I think you are right on, GM's new little SUV has crazy highway mileage numbers in Canada, 6.2L/100km, with its 6spd auto. I'd still rather have a 6spd manual myself but I can see how with some good programming the auto is going to be hard to beat for the average driver.

 

[webfors]

MT FTW!!!

I will never turn to the dark side...

 

[UNC017]

Originally Posted By: Tornado Red

I did replace my clutch at about 200k miles, and hope that the upgraded one I installed will last even longer. That cost me about $400 plus labor. But rebuilt automatic transmissions cost up to $4,000 plus labor and many OE transmissions don't last much over 100k miles.


In 30 years I've never had an automagic last *less* than 160k miles, and that one was an infamous early Chrysler Ultradrive. Of course I never bought a Honda Odyssey either... but seriously. Automatics will almost always outlast a dry clutch- which is really a very crude steam-age device when you think about it.

Don't get me wrong- I still *love* to stir the gears, especially in an underpowered car where I can wring more out of it than an automatic wants to, or in a sporty car. I like it in my Jeep, but serious offroading actually works better with an automatic- smoother torque delivery for crawling.

 

[swalve]

The shame of it is that most of the problems with automatics are in the computer control. I had a Dodge Spirit with the "evil" 4 speed, and I thought it was a blast to drive. Almost never had problems with it not picking the right gear.

Newer cars with newer programming, and most still stink. I wonder what the problem is?

 

[wander2039]

Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Some folks cite bad knees for not liking to work the clutch, and that is a valid point. I have knee problems too, but thankfully it has not affected my driving a manual transmission. My '95 F150 is a lot easier on the knees than the old '77 F150 was. Funny, I drove a coworker's small manual trans car once on official travel (abt 10 yrs ago), think it was a Mazda or like, and it was actually hard to get used to working the clutch because it was so light on pressure. I am used to a good heavy feeling clutch (by mid-90s pickup standards) and that thing was like a feather.


My experience is the exact opposite of yours. Before the Ranger i've drove alot of Festiva/Aspire's and they had the mazda trans in them. This morning hardly even noticed shifting.

 

[bluestream]

When driven properly, a clutch will last the life of the vehicle. Most people do not drive them properly, and end up putting in at least one clutch/pressure-plate. Downshifting through the gears with the clutch as a brake is a no-no. Shift the transmission to neutral, and use your brakes to stop the vehicle. The clutch slave cylinder from my experience is a weak point and will need to be changed at least once for most vehicles lifetimes. While you are in there the clutch may as well be done. These costs will negate the $1000 you will save buy getting the manual transmission. Also, the re-sale value will be less by about $1000 on a car with manual transmission. However, a well designed and well maintained manual transmission should last a long time. If it ever needs repair, it is simple to work on with basic tools. Autos are a bit more complex and not for shade-trees. It seems rare for an auto transmission to last the life of the vehicle, although it depends on which transmission. Some are very poor designs and of light built; others are very stout. Having a dealer or transmission shop fix your auto transmission is asking to be ripped off. Very few honest shops left around. It can cost big bucks when the auto transmission calls it quits. It appears the manual is disappearing in all but a few applications...

I have driven manuals most of my life, although with age I am becoming more of an auto convert. I like to have one of each, and use them for different uses.

 

[BeanCounter]

Originally Posted By: Tornado Red
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Clutch replacements cost more over the life of a vehicle than auto trans maintenance since most automatics last 200k miles or more now. Emissions are higher (or at least cant be guaranteed low) when the driver has control of the manual trans.


I did replace my clutch at about 200k miles, and hope that the upgraded one I installed will last even longer. That cost me about $400 plus labor. But rebuilt automatic transmissions cost up to $4,000 plus labor and many OE transmissions don't last much over 100k miles.


My sentiments exactly.

 

[Scienceman]

Manuals are fun, and I prefer one to haul incredibly huge loads, but for regular everyday driving? AUTO!!!

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
You know, the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about is the fact that the manual trans is going the way of the dinosaur except for very specific sport and HD applications, no matter how much we like it. Its incompatible with the most efficient hybrid drivetrain designs. Its less efficient than a modern 5- or 6-speed automatic when the engine and transmission are controlled by a common processor that optimizes both. Even moreso with a CVT type automatic (if you can all a CVT anything BUT automatic). Clutch replacements cost more over the life of a vehicle than auto trans maintenance since most automatics last 200k miles or more now. Emissions are higher (or at least cant be guaranteed low) when the driver has control of the manual trans.

Indeed.

Plus, for higher-power cars these days, automatics drastically reduce the driver's ability to break something. I'm sure that's quite important to most warranty departments...

For my part, I can honestly say there isn't a single non-manual street car in the world, at any price, that I am interested in owning. Unless I lose an arm or a leg, I will never drive a car with two pedals. If I lived somewhere with too much traffic to drive stick... I'd take the train. I also firmly believe that all sports cars and many economy cars should be manual, for various reasons.

But I think it's important to face the facts, and I'm not going to tell most people to drive stick.

What I might do instead is move somewhere where most people don't have to be persuaded...

 

[rpn453]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
For my part, I can honestly say there isn't a single non-manual street car in the world, at any price, that I am interested in owning.


I share that particular viewpoint. I don't care what sort of transmission others use, or whether sports cars are available with automatics. I would drive an automatic if I had to or if it made sense to, and I would still enjoy it if it's a decent car. But when I'm reading a car magazine and see a review of a car that is only available with an automatic, I don't even bother reading the article. All the other cars with manuals would have to be discontinued before I'd even test drive it!

 

[bluestream]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d


What I might do instead is move somewhere where most people don't have to be persuaded...


Where would you move to?

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Where would you move to?

Somewhere in Europe, probably.

 

[rshunter]

Originally Posted By: ffracer
Originally Posted By: ClarkB
Originally Posted By: Tornado Red
Originally Posted By: ClarkB
Have you checked out many common models and compared auto vs. manual? The difference is, in some cases, non-existent.


Three pedals > two pedals. That is a difference.

My left leg needs something to do, so it won't feel redundant.


Way to ignore the issue! I guess you proved your point to yourself, hopefully no one else is falling for this sort of tripe. Also, if your left leg is feeling redundant, may I recommend walking somewhere?

My statement still stands: check out current year models and tell me what the great advantage to a manual transmission is when it comes to fuel economy.

Clark


Physics still stands. Compare gear ratios, differentials, and then the 0-60 time vs. the mpg. Guarantee that if you slow your right foot in the manual down to the automatic's slower 0-60, you will get huge mileage difference in almost all models. They get the automatic to get similar mileage by killing the performance. Just like it always has been.

The DSG transmission, and its peers, makes your point moot. It gets better fuel economy than a traditional manual transmission equipped variant. Oh, and it leaves the manual equipped version of the exact same vehicle in its dust, too.