Difficulty driving a manual recently :(

[stephen9666]

Originally Posted By: Smoky14
My experience has been that DBW throttles don't play well with the driver. I have one car with a throttle cable and can drive it quite well. The second car has drive by wire and being smooth in it is accidental at best.


My Sonata has DBW that is poorly matched to the clutch. Add in a clutch with very, very abrupt engagement and it's the most difficult to drive manual I've ever owned (and I've owned a lot, including old 3-speed-on-the-column shifters.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: gofast182
^ absolutely this. I used to have a 2006 Civic Si (it was the car to have at the time so I ordered one the minute I could) and while it was an awesome car in many respects it had one really annoying quirk, the revs would stay the same or sometimes increase 50-100 RPM for almost a second when you depress the clutch to shift. It was DBW lag. So tricky it took the better part of a year for me to really adjust. What you have to do is slow your shifting and then just start to figure out whatever timing you need to adjust, it's trickier than it seems to adjust these habits/timing. Good luck!

The Tracker and Focus have some rev hang too even without DBW, the ECU somehow alters the timing to burn up the extra gas when you chop the throttle for emmisions. What I have started doing is just waiting an extra bit before I clutch in after let off the gas, and it seems to work.

 

[supton]

Our Camry is the same way; rev's right up when you shift. What I do is let off the throttle as my foot goes for the clutch--it takes practice, have to time it just right, but basically you cannot just work both pedals at the same time, you have to time the sequence just right.

Annoying, since I get into my car and while it won't rev up quickly it certainly rev's down fast. In my Jetta I can usually start applying throttle before I start letting out the clutch--in the Camry that just makes for massive shift flare.

 

[gofast182]

In my particular instance I've had 3 other Honda MT cars since that Civic Si and the others didn't have the problem to that degree but none of them behave exactly the same. My 2006 S2000 which was designed and built before my Si, has lightning quick throttle response with no quirks whatsoever. I also had a 2007 Accord V6 6MT with no issues and a 2010 Accord 5MT with a slight insignificant rev. hang.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: gofast182
It was DBW lag.


As you've noticed in your other Hondas, it's not DBW lag in the sense that it's caused by the DBW system. Your other DBW Hondas have been fine. It's more appropriately called "emissions-related lag" because that's really what it is. This kind of thing can be (and has been) done with mechanical throttles as well, and even with carburetors. My '84 Cutlass with a carburetor would hold the throttle open for a second after I revved it up, with the Idle Air Control stepper motor. All in the name of reducing those hydrocarbons...

 

[gofast182]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: gofast182
It was DBW lag.


As you've noticed in your other Hondas, it's not DBW lag in the sense that it's caused by the DBW system. Your other DBW Hondas have been fine. It's more appropriately called "emissions-related lag" because that's really what it is. This kind of thing can be (and has been) done with mechanical throttles as well, and even with carburetors. My '84 Cutlass with a carburetor would hold the throttle open for a second after I revved it up, with the Idle Air Control stepper motor. All in the name of reducing those hydrocarbons...

Why would holding a higher RPM longer reduce emissions? But I guess my point was I didn't really notice it in my other Hondas, like with the S2000 it's lightning quick, none of the others were as bad as that Si.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: stephen9666

My Sonata has DBW that is poorly matched to the clutch. Add in a clutch with very, very abrupt engagement and it's the most difficult to drive manual I've ever owned (and I've owned a lot, including old 3-speed-on-the-column shifters.


I've had a manual transmission in all but one of my DDs since 1980, and the clutch in my Mazda still gives me a bit of trouble- it's practically digital in that it is either engaged or disengaged. I can drive my Club Sport or Wrangler smoothly without even thinking about it, but I really have to concentrate to do the same in the Mazda.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: gofast182
In my particular instance I've had 3 other Honda MT cars since that Civic Si and the others didn't have the problem to that degree but none of them behave exactly the same. My 2006 S2000 which was designed and built before my Si, has lightning quick throttle response with no quirks whatsoever. I also had a 2007 Accord V6 6MT with no issues and a 2010 Accord 5MT with a slight insignificant rev. hang.


Did your 2006 Si have the SIB 06-052 software update?

 

[raaizin]

I know I had a bit of an issue when going from my v8 to my friends 1973 capri. The capri just didnt have the torque off the line that I was used to.This was many years ago.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Drive it like you stole it and speed shift it!! :^D

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: gofast182
[/quote]
Why would holding a higher RPM longer reduce emissions?


When one slams the throttle shut the mix downstream of the throttle plate in the intake manifold temporarily goes very rich. A dashpot that lets more air through for a second, eg less throttle slamming, fixes this. DBW fixes it even better.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

Originally Posted By: stephen9666

My Sonata has DBW that is poorly matched to the clutch. Add in a clutch with very, very abrupt engagement and it's the most difficult to drive manual I've ever owned (and I've owned a lot, including old 3-speed-on-the-column shifters.

I'm with him (since I have the same car '07 5 speed). I just stalled it yesterday backing into my driveway.

It might not be all clutch either as fluid has effects on the whole scenario.

Off topic (maybe)- stephen966, have you changed tranny fluid in it? I went from factory (really stiff 2nd gear when cold and not great other times) to BG Synchroshift II which was better. Just swapped again to Redline MT85 and shifting is definitely not as smooth, more effort needed but not consistent. Makes that DBW even worse.

I'm probably going to order the Pentosin from the Genesis TSB as it's a little thinner than the BG was.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: stephen9666
Originally Posted By: Smoky14
My experience has been that DBW throttles don't play well with the driver. I have one car with a throttle cable and can drive it quite well. The second car has drive by wire and being smooth in it is accidental at best.


My Sonata has DBW that is poorly matched to the clutch. Add in a clutch with very, very abrupt engagement and it's the most difficult to drive manual I've ever owned (and I've owned a lot, including old 3-speed-on-the-column shifters.


Exactly right!!! Drive by Wire, "Timing retard", Torque management, fuel air ratio's that don't foster response and massively delayed throttle response are the norm today.

Today's manual equipped cars are a royal pain to drive properly. Mostly because they do nothing you ask "on cue".

Consider this one little trick that some manufacturers use: To keep the catalytic converters hot, when drivers lift off the throttle, the engine does not return to idle. But rather it returns to a form of "high idle" with enough exhaust energy to prevent a cooling cat. This causes all sorts of problems when manual transmissions are involved. As the ECU may call for 1700RPM, but the upshift asks for 1200RPM. And a jerky ride results! It's as if you never lifted off the accelerator.

For example, the Nissan 370Z w/manual trans, has all sorts of electronic tweaks to the throttle, including automatic throttle blipping. I cannot drive one of those cars using normal manual trans techniques. AND, I find them annoying to drive.

 

[KitaCam]

Whew...glad to see that Kitacam's occasional shudder (most often only at the start of the day) isn't unusual...never experienced that before...and convinced myself that IT WASN'T ME....that it was the DBW...