Slowly when in 1st and starting off, then pretty quickly after that. I try not to ride the clutch unless there is no traction in 1st, such as in snow.
Manual Trans: How do you release the clutch?
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Originally Posted By: rationull
Originally Posted By: KitaCam
1. New cars' MTs/throttles are electronic so there's less "feel" than the hydraulics of the past...so that feel of friction is now gone.
Not sure if I misunderstood what you meant here but I'm not aware of any new MT cars that don't still have hydraulic clutches. DBW throttle of course, but any clutch feel characteristics should still be derived from the design of the hydraulic system, pedal linkage, and transmission as it has been in the past.
Probably no more cable clutches, though.
Yeah, THAT'S what I meant...the lack of cable reduces "feel" almost entirely, at least in the Kitacam...hence the emphasis on POSITION of RELEASE being the key rather than depending on shifting on the basis of any feedback from the friction of parts....
Originally Posted By: KitaCam
1. New cars' MTs/throttles are electronic so there's less "feel" than the hydraulics of the past...so that feel of friction is now gone.
Not sure if I misunderstood what you meant here but I'm not aware of any new MT cars that don't still have hydraulic clutches. DBW throttle of course, but any clutch feel characteristics should still be derived from the design of the hydraulic system, pedal linkage, and transmission as it has been in the past.
Probably no more cable clutches, though.
Yeah, THAT'S what I meant...the lack of cable reduces "feel" almost entirely, at least in the Kitacam...hence the emphasis on POSITION of RELEASE being the key rather than depending on shifting on the basis of any feedback from the friction of parts....
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Originally Posted By: KitaCam
Originally Posted By: rationull
Probably no more cable clutches, though.
Yeah, THAT'S what I meant...the lack of cable reduces "feel" almost entirely, at least in the Kitacam...hence the emphasis on POSITION of RELEASE being the key rather than depending on shifting on the basis of any feedback from the friction of parts....
Ah, OK, I understand now. I've driven hydraulic clutches many more miles than cable clutches so I probably don't have a very good reference for the type of feel you're talking about here!
Originally Posted By: rationull
Probably no more cable clutches, though.
Yeah, THAT'S what I meant...the lack of cable reduces "feel" almost entirely, at least in the Kitacam...hence the emphasis on POSITION of RELEASE being the key rather than depending on shifting on the basis of any feedback from the friction of parts....
Ah, OK, I understand now. I've driven hydraulic clutches many more miles than cable clutches so I probably don't have a very good reference for the type of feel you're talking about here!
There's nothing about cable actuation that can't and isn't achieved with hydraulic actuation. The reverse is almost as true. The design of both the pedal assembly and the actual disc and pressure plate play a huge role in pedal feel as does the fork and pivot if that's used.
The only major differences between cable and hydraulic actuation are that hydraulic setups self-adjust for wear, cables don't need to be bled, and hydraulics don't suffer from snapping a cable end off.
The only major differences between cable and hydraulic actuation are that hydraulic setups self-adjust for wear, cables don't need to be bled, and hydraulics don't suffer from snapping a cable end off.
My two older VW Golfs 84, and 96, have non assisted (non hydraulic) cable for the clutch pedal, and I can tell you that they have the best feedback of any system you can buy, modern stuff has NO advantages over those cable actuated clutches and plenty of DISadvantages, like more complication, more parts to fail, and more expense to repair....
Is their any new cars for sale today in the USA where you can get a basic cable actuated clutch pedal? I bet not. It would be too reliable, and cheap to fix when it breaks....LOL
Is their any new cars for sale today in the USA where you can get a basic cable actuated clutch pedal? I bet not. It would be too reliable, and cheap to fix when it breaks....LOL
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
An art unto itself, good stick drivers are few and far between.
One of my workers here was hired almost immediately after I found out his older Stang GT 5 speed had the original clutch in it at 165k miles. He's as smooth as butter, and his car shows it.
My ex could ruin a clutch in one year on anything! You need to develop a "feel" for this as every car is a bit different, even if the same model.
+1
Driving behind a manual transmission car you will be able to see if the driver is good or not, by how much the car is jerking when he shifts from gear to gear, especially from first to second.
An art unto itself, good stick drivers are few and far between.
One of my workers here was hired almost immediately after I found out his older Stang GT 5 speed had the original clutch in it at 165k miles. He's as smooth as butter, and his car shows it.
My ex could ruin a clutch in one year on anything! You need to develop a "feel" for this as every car is a bit different, even if the same model.
+1
Driving behind a manual transmission car you will be able to see if the driver is good or not, by how much the car is jerking when he shifts from gear to gear, especially from first to second.
It's not rocket science-when I drive our Subaru (or other vehicle with a manual transmission) I often don't use the clutch when shifting, I just use it when I'm starting from a stop or coming to a stop. Just don't use the clutch in a manner that causes excessive slipping and you'll get a long life out of it.
Our 7 year old Subaru has about 130,000 miles on it and the original clutch is still just fine. My 60-something wife is the normal driver and I can assure you she does nothing special, she just drives it. There's no special "feel" involved, and she had no problems driving the manual transmission car we rented when we were in Italy last month.
A lot of people think driving a manual transmission is some sort of special chest thumping skill only a select few can master. It's not-it just requires a small amount of coordination and practice.
Our 7 year old Subaru has about 130,000 miles on it and the original clutch is still just fine. My 60-something wife is the normal driver and I can assure you she does nothing special, she just drives it. There's no special "feel" involved, and she had no problems driving the manual transmission car we rented when we were in Italy last month.
A lot of people think driving a manual transmission is some sort of special chest thumping skill only a select few can master. It's not-it just requires a small amount of coordination and practice.
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
A lot of people think driving a manual transmission is some sort of special chest thumping skill only a select few can master. It's not-it just requires a small amount of coordination and practice.
Exactly- ANYONE can become proficient at it with practice. The people I know who say "I've tried and I just can't learn how to do it!" are the ones that practice in a parking lot for an hour, get frustrated, and go back to an automatic car. It takes "immersion" just like learning a language- anyone who gets out there in traffic and sucks it up will be be proficient in about 2 days.
The thing to guard against is picking up bad clutch-slipping habits in those first couple of days, because they're hard to UNlearn.
A lot of people think driving a manual transmission is some sort of special chest thumping skill only a select few can master. It's not-it just requires a small amount of coordination and practice.
Exactly- ANYONE can become proficient at it with practice. The people I know who say "I've tried and I just can't learn how to do it!" are the ones that practice in a parking lot for an hour, get frustrated, and go back to an automatic car. It takes "immersion" just like learning a language- anyone who gets out there in traffic and sucks it up will be be proficient in about 2 days.
The thing to guard against is picking up bad clutch-slipping habits in those first couple of days, because they're hard to UNlearn.
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
With a big engine, heavy crankshaft, big vehicle- driving it the same way just pounds the snot out of the driveline, engine mounts, passengers, stresses internal components of the trans, etc. Much better to release smoothly and even better to learn to rev-match a bit.
True, but if one really wants to learn, they'll pick up on if their heavy engine is dragging the car down or slamming it forwards when they step off the clutch. Shortly they'll figure out what then to do with their right foot shifting under those circumstances.
As an educational exercise, speed up the left foot so you learn what to do with your right.
There may be some vehicles out there that hang the throttle too long, in which case you'll just have to shift slower to rev-match. Part of me wants to get another throttle body gasket and make up a "restrictor plate" for 90% of the idle air bypass, to cut its range.
With a big engine, heavy crankshaft, big vehicle- driving it the same way just pounds the snot out of the driveline, engine mounts, passengers, stresses internal components of the trans, etc. Much better to release smoothly and even better to learn to rev-match a bit.
True, but if one really wants to learn, they'll pick up on if their heavy engine is dragging the car down or slamming it forwards when they step off the clutch. Shortly they'll figure out what then to do with their right foot shifting under those circumstances.
As an educational exercise, speed up the left foot so you learn what to do with your right.
There may be some vehicles out there that hang the throttle too long, in which case you'll just have to shift slower to rev-match. Part of me wants to get another throttle body gasket and make up a "restrictor plate" for 90% of the idle air bypass, to cut its range.
Depends, on engine, manual trans ratio, differential ratio(ring&pinion) size of tires, Inflation of said tires, uphill down hill, snow, condition of clutch, etc
I used to use the "clutch" in my ol 1979 FORD Courier only to get going from a stop, either 1st or reverse. Its not Nice to the Syncros though, especially if Your drivin her Hard.
When I bought my White 1996 Cherokee back in 2007, I Knew Her clutch was on limited time. Thats one reason the asking price was reduced. She had 234,??? miles on her Original clutch at the time.
Originally Posted By: 84zmyfavorite
When I bought my White 1996 Cherokee back in 2007, I Knew Her clutch was on limited time. Thats one reason the asking price was reduced. She had 234,??? miles on her Original clutch at the time.
Same situation here....only the dealer had to replace the replaced clutch after only 97k miles...but I got the new one (albeit the 3rd in the Kitacam), and I got the car for the trade-in value...a deal...
When I bought my White 1996 Cherokee back in 2007, I Knew Her clutch was on limited time. Thats one reason the asking price was reduced. She had 234,??? miles on her Original clutch at the time.
Same situation here....only the dealer had to replace the replaced clutch after only 97k miles...but I got the new one (albeit the 3rd in the Kitacam), and I got the car for the trade-in value...a deal...
Originally Posted By: 84zmyfavorite
Depends, on engine, manual trans ratio, differential ratio(ring&pinion) size of tires, Inflation of said tires, uphill down hill, snow, condition of clutch, etc
There you go, there are so many variables there is NOT one method that's correct...
For instance take my '69 428(that's 7 FULL litres for you metric guys), 4 speed Fairlane... Big engine should be easy to get going right?? WRONG... It has a close ratio trans with 2.32 1st gear, 3.00 rear ratio and a 670 CFM carb, if you don't ride the clutch a bit(it's 11.5", can stand a lot of abuse), when starting out the manifold vacuum will drop and she'll fall on her face(no EFI here to make things easy)... Be aggressive with it and it'll pull off without issue, be really aggressive and it just sets there making tire smoke...
It really needs more 1st gear ratio and I should reinstall the original 3.50 rear end, would make it easier to drive... Maybe one of these days...
Depends, on engine, manual trans ratio, differential ratio(ring&pinion) size of tires, Inflation of said tires, uphill down hill, snow, condition of clutch, etc
There you go, there are so many variables there is NOT one method that's correct...
For instance take my '69 428(that's 7 FULL litres for you metric guys), 4 speed Fairlane... Big engine should be easy to get going right?? WRONG... It has a close ratio trans with 2.32 1st gear, 3.00 rear ratio and a 670 CFM carb, if you don't ride the clutch a bit(it's 11.5", can stand a lot of abuse), when starting out the manifold vacuum will drop and she'll fall on her face(no EFI here to make things easy)... Be aggressive with it and it'll pull off without issue, be really aggressive and it just sets there making tire smoke...
It really needs more 1st gear ratio and I should reinstall the original 3.50 rear end, would make it easier to drive... Maybe one of these days...
All my mustangs are easy to start off without touching the fuel. I'm tuned into how the cars run. I've never personally cooked a clutch that I had from new.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: jigen
I was reading some article a little while back stating how when you shift gears it is best to release the clutch quickly as possible, leaving little to no time for any clutch wear.
That may sound good but anytime I did something that abrupt the shift felt hard, and felt like it was hard on the transmission.
Depends on which gear. There is no way I could release a clutch very quickly in 1st gear and have it result in smooth acceleration. But the higher the gear, the quicker I can release the clutch.
Same story on my bikes.
True, the gearing of the transmission and rear come into play as well. I had a van with a 300 rear, and 4 speed stick. The gearing sucked, you had to give it some gas to take off. I had other vehicles over the years where I'd just let off the clutch and go w/o giving any gas. Some clutches had to be ridden a little longer than others, its all in the gearing and engine power.
Originally Posted By: jigen
I was reading some article a little while back stating how when you shift gears it is best to release the clutch quickly as possible, leaving little to no time for any clutch wear.
That may sound good but anytime I did something that abrupt the shift felt hard, and felt like it was hard on the transmission.
Depends on which gear. There is no way I could release a clutch very quickly in 1st gear and have it result in smooth acceleration. But the higher the gear, the quicker I can release the clutch.
Same story on my bikes.
True, the gearing of the transmission and rear come into play as well. I had a van with a 300 rear, and 4 speed stick. The gearing sucked, you had to give it some gas to take off. I had other vehicles over the years where I'd just let off the clutch and go w/o giving any gas. Some clutches had to be ridden a little longer than others, its all in the gearing and engine power.
ls1mike
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The Trans Am has a Mcleod Twin disk. Holds plenty of power. Most folks can't get the dang thing out of the parking lot let alone drive it, 420 RWHP and 4.10 gears. Slippage is non existent. I have it set up nice now for getting out of the hole the rest of the shifts are on and off.
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