Does synthetic have advantages over modern dino?

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API SM/GF-4 conventional oils seem to be pretty high-quality stuff these days, offering ample protection, good additive packs, and good cleaning ability. All this combined with a rather low cost.

Indeed, although I'm an amateur when it comes to this topic, I'd speculate that the gap between synthetic oils and modern conventional oils has narrowed considerably in recent years, prompting me to ask the following question:

What advantages, if any, does a modern synthetic oil (say Mobil 1, Pennzoil Platinum, Amsoil, take your pick) have over a modern conventional oil such as Pennzoil conventional, Mobil Clean 5000, etc. in an average passenger on the road today? (Assume common weights, such as 5W-20 and 5w30.)

Obviously, certain oils are more suited for track use, extended oil change intervals, towing, etc., but I'm referring to your average passenger car and it's normal, everyday use.

Let's say that it's used, for example, to take short trips to the grocery store and other shopping places, commute to and from work, drop kids off at school, and the occasional road trip to go visit one's mother-in-law.

Say the owner is a reasonably attentive person, and changes the oil when the indicator comes up on their dashboard (say 5,000-7,500 miles) in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendation. No super long OCIs. Assume the car is in reasonably good mechanical condition and starts out without any leaks, sludge, or other serious issues.

Let's also say that this person is not interested in buying/leasing a new car every few years, but would gladly drive the same car for 10-15 years so as to eke out maximal value for their purchase. Let's say they're interested in getting to around 200,000-250,000 miles out of their car.

Finally, let's say the person lives in a typical climate, with four seasons. Say the summers get up into the 90s (Fahrenheit, in this example) and the winters get down into the 20s.

In short, Joe Average owns an ordinary car, drives it in an ordinary fashion, for ordinary purposes. I realize there's a lot of variables to consider in the real world, and that simplifying everything leaves out a lot, but bear with me.
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Does synthetic have any significant advantages to an average car and driver in regards to protection, engine longevity, etc. or would be equally served by a modern conventional oil over the life of ones car?
 
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I wouldn't say dino would serve equally as well but it would serve the purpose of making sure the engine still works even after you've given up on the rest of the car.

You could see some minor gas mileage gains from a 0w synthetic especially since the oil is run at less than operating temps a lot.

Given this information, it's not worth getting synthetic over dino given the regular prices. However, you can always find a rebate or sales or combination of the two on synthetics. Currently, you can get 5 quarts of Castrol Edge + Purolator PureOne oil filter for $10 after rebate or 5 quarts of Quaker State Full Synthetic for $7.50 after rebate and Advance Auto coupon
 
i don't truly believe it does. with all the marketing smoke and mirrors, no one can really say what is truly best unless they are an industry insider. if toyota says any SM/ILSAC oil will do, i'll take them up on that.

over-engineering is not necessarily better engineering.

if it were the same price, i'd consider it. but i'm finding it hard at the cost that synthetics are in australia to justify the extra money for synthetic (we're talking $20/L M1 compared to $6 per L for an SM dino/blend oil)
 
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I`ve always wondered if a true synthetic (grp IV,V) will protect an engine better if you really like to pound on it.
 
Dino has done me good for many many many loooooooooong years, never a failure. why change something that already does you good?
 
With ALL those conditions the main advantages of synthetic oil are:

a) Cleaner rings and piston ring grooves. Synthetic oil can, will and does keep the ring packs cleaner for longer.

b) Easier starts when very cold.

c) When condition "but I'm referring to your average passenger car and it's normal, everyday use." is pushed and has the stresses of life bearing down on them and can't change the oil for another x months, synthetic oil will still be running fine.

d) Mid-winter 7°F, just wait a couple more months to change the oil. Normal decisions are not panic decisions with synthetic oil. Change your oil when you want to, synthetic oil gives you that peace of mind easily.
 
"Does synthetic have advantages over modern dino"

in short,,,,H eck yes!!! just to name a few.....


1-has better cold weather flow/starting performance

2-(can take the heat better)can protect better in hot severe driving/towing conditions, better Hot weather protection

3-cleaner operating engines,less varnish, sludge etc..

4-capable of extended drains

5-some people better gas mileage
 
The sludge angle is another good point....at "say 5,000-7,500 miles", some sludge engines are already well into muck making with conventional oil. Synthetic oil? No way.
 
With the price of synthetics being so low these days, especially with Walmart $22 jug of Mobil 1 and the ever present Autozone and Advanced Auto sales, the way I see it is why not use a synthetic?
 
Originally Posted By: lipadj46
With the price of synthetics being so low these days, especially with Walmart $22 jug of Mobil 1 and the ever present Autozone and Advanced Auto sales, the way I see it is why not use a synthetic?

Yes,,,another good reason,prices are very reasonable for good syns now days..getting that better prtection for cheaper.
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I agree with all that has been said about synthetics so far. I use synthetics in all my cars and Motorcycles for the last 2 yrs.

However I had over 30 yrs of dino use before that and took many an engine to 200,000 miles without many problems. Dino does not hold up as well say in a delivery truck (sever use) if you habitually forget to change the oil on time. If you change it at say 5,000 miles habitually you are good for 200K, IMO.

I'm actually going back to Dino for my 2 lower mileage cars. I rarely put enough miles on before the time is up.
 
Originally Posted By: GhostFlame
However I had over 30 yrs of dino use before that and took many an engine to 200,000 miles without many problems. Dino does not hold up as well say in a delivery truck (sever use) if you habitually forget to change the oil on time. If you change it at say 5,000 miles habitually you are good for 200K, IMO.

I'm actually going back to Dino for my 2 lower mileage cars. I rarely put enough miles on before the time is up.

Marijuana wont kill you either but.........
 
DAMAN, Speaking of synthetic advantages, how's that M1 green cap running and what's it in? I have a bottle on deck for the Yaris for the end of December.
 
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Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
DAMAN, Speaking of synthetic advantages, how's that M1 green cap running and what's it in? I have a bottle on deck for the Yaris for the end of December.

Well i'll tell ya darn good,lol...

i have it in two GM v6's a 3100(car) and a 3400(van)that i run year around in,and they love the stuff, i run it out to 7-9,000 miles with a AC UPF filter no used oil analysis,consumption is minimal, start up noise is nil,oil pressure instant,mileage hard to say maybe lil better haven't really calculated but it's nothing extreme.

been using it for a wile now and no plans on stopping, got a heck of a stash with the M1 rebates and cheap price at WM. I think you'll be happy with it.

i also have ran it in my '99 Z71 with 230,000 miles for winter oil,same in that,no problems,Great oil!
 
If you have a turbo gasoline engine, you should use a synthetic only.

Every time I see a turbo engine that gets 3,000-4,000 mile OCIs on conventional oil gets filled with loads of varnish, and the turbocharger leaks. At least that is my experience with VW and Volvo, which together make 90% of the turbo gasoline engines I work on.
 
Interesting. Thanks to all for their replies.

Assuming Mobil's estimates of the fuel economy increases of their M1 OW-XX Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy oils and a difference of about ~$13-per-change between conventional and synthetic, one would actually save money compared to a dino. Of course, who knows how they got their numbers, and if they apply to real-world driving?

My main reason for asking is that both myself and my fiancee both fall into this category (minus the dropping kids off at school, of course, as we don't yet have kids!).

The wear numbers from the used oil analysis on Mobil Clean 5000 on my '06 Camry look good (though I did change it at ~2,500mi because I have a long road trip coming up and I wanted fresh oil for the trip so I wouldn't need to change it mid-trip...it's also part of an experiment I'm conducting), and it's inexpensive at the shop. My fiancee just bought a new RAV4, and has a ways to go for the first service interval, but we like planning ahead. Both cars are under warranty, neither have turbos, and neither are used for towing or other severe duty.

We do live in Arizona, but the engine temperature gauges never, ever get above the middle of the gauge (a testament to Toyota's cooling system, I'm sure), even when ascending long hills at highway speeds. I've actually actually asked my mechanic if the gauge went any higher than the middle of the range, as I've never seen it budge above that after warming up but my now-totaled 1992 Mercedes 300D would heat up to about 3/4 of the gauge when on the same big hills.

On her previous car (an 01 Ford Focus) and my Camry, we're both quite diligent about oil changes.

Using some very rough numbers from our driving histories, it'd cost about $250/vehicle over a 15-year/200,000mi lifespan of the vehicles to use synthetic. That's less than I thought, and well within our budget. Even if it's not really necessary for our driving habits (and it probably won't be), for the price it's relatively "cheap insurance".
 
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1-has better cold weather flow/starting performance

2-(can take the heat better)can protect better in hot severe driving/towing conditions, better Hot weather protection

3-cleaner operating engines,less varnish, sludge etc..

4-capable of extended drains

5-some people better gas mileage


Here's an opposing point:

1. If you don't live some where with extreme cold, there won't be the benefit.

2. If you don't live some where with extreme high temperatures, desert, towing, racing, or your cooling system allows your engine to overheat, you won't get the benefit.

3. New conventional oils have improved dispersants and detergents that keep the oil cleaner. Old technology of oils contributed to the problem. I believe the new technology solved these problems as well as synthetics.

4. I don't trust extended oil drains, nor UOA (UOA doesn't measure everything). Rather have clean oil, fresh additives, and a new filter...gives me peace of mind, and there's nothing better than new oil.

5. Achieved by lower viscosity, not because it is synthetic (i.e. 5w vs. 10w). Synthetic just allows the improved viscosity range. This would be the only reason why I would choose synthetic.

And the #1 reason why there isn't much difference...they both meet the same API ratings. If synthetic was that much better, I would expect different and higher API ratings (or some other rating and testing).

Jake
 
Originally Posted By: artificialist
If you have a turbo gasoline engine, you should use a synthetic only.


Excellent point, you beat me to it (posting it). Everybody gives the knee-jerk reponse "if you don't encounter extream cold..." dinos are "just as good" as synthetics. However, many fail to realize the advantages of syns in the heat. The mfg's turbo recommendations and/or requirements validate this point.

Driving at sustained high speeds across SO-TX in the summer, you bet I'm running syns. No, dino wouldn't cause catastropic failures, but syns will handle it better.
 
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
many fail to realize the advantages of syns in the heat. The mfg's turbo recommendations and/or requirements validate this point.


There's the assumption that the outside temperature or having a turbo means higher temperature. But what about the upgraded cooling system or adding an oil cooler? That should dissipate the heat from the turbo or from hot weather.

If your engine temperature operates in the viscosity range of the oil, why the problem?

For us that don't have a gasoline turbo...I haven't read any scientific evidence of today's synthetics offering better wear protection than today's conventional oil. I haven't seen used oil analysis prove it. Blackstone themselves use dino for personal use, not synthetics. All the used oil analysis show is when to change the oil. Or said another way, under normal conditions, used oil analysis proves all current API rated oils perform the same under 3000 miles. It isn't until you get to the extended miles that competing oils indicate their advantages. There are also people talking about today's modern oils now commoditized...no real differences between brands (which is probably why no one can claim the #1 ranked best oil).

When I read the marketing material for diesel dinos/syn, Chevron nor Shell marketed their synthetics as having better wear protection. I figure that if synthetics were better, they would be marketing the scientific facts, but they aren't. They are marketing cold temperatures (no mention of hot temps) and extended oil drains.
 
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