Does Ford's specification WSS-M2C153-H render API irrelavant?

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Feb 7, 2003
Montgomery, Alabama
Since Ford specification WSS-M2C153-H regarding 5w20 oil exceeds API SL specifications and Ford calls for an oil meeting their specifications to meet warrenty, I would think that it doesn't matter who does the testing as long as the oil meets Fords specs.

Is this the shape of things to come? GM specs, Chrysler specs, Toyota specs, ...

Just paying attention to the little starburst could void your warrenty.

Personally, I would go for the oils that meet Toyota's sludge engine specs. They would undoubtedly be the best.

Master wuli rote:


I would go for the oils that meet Toyota's sludge engine specs

I'm agreeing with you (hence the Amsoil procurement of one said engine) - but of which oils does thou speakest?

Does toychoda have alist?

(PS API is and will remain a MINIMUM spec - so yes it can be called irrelevant when debating top tier oils)

[ February 19, 2003, 11:09 PM: Message edited by: Pablo ]
Pablo replied.

(PS API is and will remain a MINIMUM spec - so yes it can be called irrelevant when debating top tier oils)

I think you missed my point. API SL is already irrelevant since it doesn't meet the minimum Ford specs. WSS-M2C153-H calls for 160 hour length Sequence IIIF engine test. API SL calls for only meeting 80 hours.

Amsoil 10w30 easily surpassed 240 hours.
wulimaster, the Ford WSS-M2C153-H spec for 5w-20 also requires that at a minimum any oil must meet specs for API SL or SJ and also pass a double length Sequence IIIE or IIIF test with a limit of 200% viscosity increase. The limit for the SJ Sequence IIIE test was 375% at 64 hours and for the Sequence IIIF 275% at 80 hours for SL. The old sequence IIIE test uses leaded fuel and as such even though it is a shorter length is comparable to the newer version of the test when it had the viscosity increase limit of 200% to meet Fords requirements. Also the limit for the TEOST is much lower than either API SJ or SL. The TEOST test measures doposits left inside the engine. These changes make a Ford spec 5w-20 oil much more robust than the average API SL motor oil that does not meet the ford spec. There are also requirements of GF-3 and GF-2 such as limits for phosphorus content. API SL and SJ also have other requirements that I have not listed.
In my opinion the API specs for SL and SJ motor oil are not hard to meet and if you want better protection for your motor and don't own a car that specs 5w-20 then only buy an oil that meets the European ACEA specs of A5 and B5 or A3 and B3 for a vehicle that requires a higher viscosity motor oil. These ACEA specs are far harder to meet and would give much better protection than most oil meeting only the SL or SJ requirements.

I was trying to breakdown the mental barrier people have in thinking that they must use an "official licensed" oil in order to meet warrenty. If an oil only specified that it met Fords spec for 5w20 then that would be enough for warrenty coverage. Same for Mercedes or VW specs.

People are under the illusion that if they just use an API labeled oil that warrenty issues will not be a problem.

Case in point. Toyota sludge engines.

Toyota blames the owner for lack of maintenance.

Owner has quicklube receipts - then blames the quicklube for not really doing the oil change.

Owner has receipts for oil changed by owner - blames owner

Owner has had all the service done at Toyota - Toyota quietly pays for the repairs.

Internet talk groups form and the size of the problem and how Toyota has handled the problem comes out. - Toyota says it will repair and modify the engines so that they will be able to handle longer oil change intervals. Still denys any problems with the design and still puts the blame on the customers.

The only way to be covered under warrenty is to have all the service done by the dealer and make sure you follow the severe service change intervals.

This is how Corporate America handles problems.
"fix the blame not the problem"

Funny. I use to think Japanese companies went by the opposite. "Fix the problem, not the blame"

I guess that may not apply to companies that have been in partnership with American companies.

How does Ford WSS-M2C153-H differ from Ford WSS-M2C153-G? Same test different parameters?
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