Does DINOs have any advantage over synthetics other than $$$?

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Originally posted by jsharp:

quote:

Originally posted by Flimflam:
Bishop, you must be an old timer. I know some old timer mechanics who witnessed what happened to cars with the early versions of syn oil poured into them. A good number simply died within a week or two of the synthetic diet. This was way back in late 1970's, very early 1980's.

Either the early synthetics were not as well made as the ones we see today, or the cars in those days were not built for synthetic.

Anyway, the funny part of it is, those old timers who either witnessed or had happen to them the bad effects of early synthetic, they are still paranoid about the synthetic stuff today.

But as for your comment about syn-fed cars dying at 100,000 miles or less, it brings to mind an old beater ford Bronco 351 v-8 that I bought for $2,500. To use synthetic in that thing would be a waste of money, and it would not make a difference of 1 minute of engine lifespan, whether one used $50/quart Shell Ultra Helix or 30-cents per quart "closeout special" Engine Death. For most people(including myself!!!!), their ride is just not special or exclusive enough to justify spending extra money on fancy motor oil. And to me, anything more expensive than $1.89 a quart is a fancy motor oil.


Maybe some cars. In 1980 I bought a brand new Toyota. At 3000 miles I started using Mobil 1 ( remember the 20 weight variety? ) and running 8K-10K OCI's. When I sold it with 165K miles it was still running well and using very little oil between changes.

I also owned a number of other vehicles in the 70's and 80's that were sludged and/or worn out at 100K miles or less after a steady diet of "quality" dino changed at 2K-3K miles.

My opinion is on the first day Mobil 1 was sold every dino lube of the day was inferior and obsolete...


Re: your vehicles "in the 70's and 80's that were sludged out......on "quality" dino changed at 2K-3K miles..." I think that was the time of the dreaded "Black Death." At least, the 1970's was. Involved a bunch of "name brand " oils that kind of got mousetrapped or left behind by the advances in engine technology. They could not take the greater heat and leaner jetting of the newer engines, and turned to black tar, thus wrecking the engines.

As for your Toy running for 165 K miles and still looking good, that is not unusual for a Toy (short form). My Mexican gardener has a Starlet (I think 1980 model) with 330,000 miles on it. The guy only changes oil if and when he feels like doing it. Lincoln Town cars used by the New York City airport limo industry are expected to go 500,000 miles without any fuss or bother, using QS, Pennz, GTX regular dino.

In Fall 1998, I finally retired my old beater Ford Bronco. It had 150,000 miles on it, always had ordinary dino poured into it. I never had an engine problem the whole time. The electrical problems were killer, though. We could never figure out why the thing would lose spark all of a sudden in the middle of a freeway merge move.
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In Fall 2000, I sold my girlfriend's Ford Thunderbird. This one had 175,000 mile son the clock. Like the Ford mentioned above, this one too did not have engine problems. Just the little electrical gremlins that finally made us go, "OK, that's enough. Adios, old Blue Oval." This hi-mileage thingie too did not have the benefit of Mobil 1.

So, in the final analysis, I think it is true what the more experienced forummer's say here. They say they've never seen an engine crap out because of the oil. It is far more likely your clutch or auto tranny, or drive train or body will go before your engine does.

If you have not been unlucky enough to get a lemon, $5/qt Mobil 1 or 86 cents/qt Chevron will not make the slightest difference to your engines' life. I like the fact that I can get much lower Fe UOA numbers with dino oil, though!!!!!!!
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When I get better UOA results using Chevron Supreme compared to Mobil 1, a quieter running engine, and lower oil consumption, I see no benefit of spending the extra money for the synthetic. This is the reason I switched. I doubt any added benefit I might get from a synthetic will make a difference in the long run because I'm sure something else on this truck will fail long before the engine.

Wayne
 
quote:

Originally posted by Bishop:
Maybe it's just me, but I really don't see the "time" excuse as valid for long change intervals, it's just not realistic.

Hahhahaa....I hear ya'! I actually *enjoy* changing my oil and filter.

Still, I use synthetic oil in 3 out of 4 of my vehicles. I'm just anal that way. Call me crazy!
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Know your synthetic and pay for what you want. This why I use Amsoil the good and the bad but like it's result. Will try other products when I see quality synthetic price per say. I like less wear and extended OCI is why I use synthetic oil and why I've been using Amsoil for many years.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=002051#000000

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least expensive dino oil change I can imagine is Wal-Mart $.79 oil (5 quarts) plus a ST Filter for maybe $2. Forgetting about taxes this is a total of $5.95 for 3,000 miles or $1.98 per 1000 miles.

I have run Mobil 1 5w30 for 10,000 in my Van for years. The cost comes out to be between $15 and $18 for a 5 quart jug of oil (on sale from time to time at Wal-Mart) plus a $5.00 oil filter. This comes out to be a total of $21.50 per change (using an average cost for the oil). At $21.50 the cost per 1000 miles is $2.15.

So I pay a slight (8.6%) premium to use synthetic.

For this extra cost I get to change the oil 1/3 as many times.

A more appropriate comparison would be Motorcraft or Havoline changed TWICE as frequently as Mobil 1, like 2500 vs 5000 miles. It costs twice as much for the Mobil 1, even counting two filters for the "dino" and one for the M1.

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Lincoln Town cars used by the New York City airport limo industry are expected to go 500,000 miles without any fuss or bother, using QS, Pennz, GTX regular dino.
I finally retired my old beater Ford Bronco. It had 150,000 miles on it, always had ordinary dino poured into it. I never had an engine problem the whole time. I sold my girlfriend's Ford Thunderbird . This one had 175,000 mile son the clock. Like the Ford mentioned above, this one too did not have engine problems.

Those old chug-a-lug cars had engines that $.79c API dino oil was made for. Try using that stuff in a twin-turbo S4 or a Cayenne Turbo and see if you have "engine problems". That's what people are not realizing, some engines require high-tech synthetics! Premium car owners do not want to change their own oil or visit the dealer every 60 days for a change. I would not be too sure about that whole body rusting before the engine is worn thing either.
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Would a valid reason to use DINOs over synthetic (excluding costs considerations) that DINOs are easier on seals?
 
synthetic isnt worth the hassle unless you can get it cheap.

i use to be able to get mobil1 0w30 for $3 a liter.
now that i cannot get that deal anymore, ill be using dino oil again.
 
Intersting to say I went to Walmart last nite and Father & Son looking at the oil section. Funny thing is they wanted to try something different and was looking at the synthetic oil. They had no idea of Group 3 or 4 or 5. What ever bottle looked good they would read the label. They liked the Quakerstate bottle just by looks so I ask them what oil they use. They got 20,000K and 35,000K miles on their vehicle. They say they use synthetic blend valvoline and supertech and wanted to try the supertech synthetic but didn't like the price. He seem awed and suprised that he had no idea how good synthetic, synthetic blend or dino oil was. He is from Virginia and said he always had 6K OCI there but here in Hawaii is stop & go so he always went 3K OCI even if he did try using synthetic oil.

So I suggested the Motorcraft 5W-30 as he was debating which was better the Supertech Blend at $8.85 for 5qts or Motorcraft $1.68 a qt.

In comes down to PRICE. I think he was a typical costumer who sees synthetic blend as choice over dino but is unsure of what synthetic, synthetic blend or dino but uses his common sense that his expensive vehicle he wants something better in it's price.
 
quote:

...that DINOs are easier on seals?

The converse of that statement would be "Synthetics are harder on seals than dino oil".

Many of the members here have run M1, Redline or Amsoil from day one in their vehicles and have no issues with seal leaks.

Probably the most common seal leak issue is when a higher mileage vehicle, with some sludge & varnish deposits, is switched over from dino to synthetics.

Even in dino oils, seal performance can degrade. The Hi-Mileage dino oils, with seal conditioners, target this issue.
 
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What do you do with all that frequent used oil. I use to think like that but feel a sense to be responsibile for the enviroment.

All used oil must be sent for recycling here now, all tips/dumps here have a collection point, you can get in trouble now for improper disposal of engine oils.
But to be honest I lost track of what happens to it once it is collected now, I really should see what the current re-use is here now.

I'm not sure it's that socially irresponsible to use dino oils though, no more so than owning a car that has more power, or uses more fuel, tyres, parts, etc than anything else you could buy anyway.

If you really want to take the high road on that side of the oils argument, you would want to be driving a electric car, made from 99% recyclable parts, that uses no more resources than is necessary to get you from A to B, in a very boring but safe way, and even then perhaps you would just be better off taking the bus???
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Synthetic oil works great in freezing weather,can or may go longer drain wise, The motor oil portion of crude oil is a drop in the bucket compared to fuel. I would dare to post, it is a personal choice. I have seen a lot of high mileage dino oils very clean at teardown time. I have seen syn motors look very good also. you pay your money and make your choice. It truly depends on your individual motor and operation if a syn oil will be of benefit to your application.

[ August 17, 2004, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: Steve S ]
 
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