Does DINOs have any advantage over synthetics other than $$$?

[Ugly3]

The least expensive dino oil change I can imagine is Wal-Mart $.79 oil (5 quarts) plus a ST Filter for maybe $2. Forgetting about taxes this is a total of $5.95 for 3,000 miles or $1.98 per 1000 miles.

I have run Mobil 1 5w30 for 10,000 in my Van for years. The cost comes out to be between $15 and $18 for a 5 quart jug of oil (on sale from time to time at Wal-Mart) plus a $5.00 oil filter. This comes out to be a total of $21.50 per change (using an average cost for the oil). At $21.50 the cost per 1000 miles is $2.15.

So I pay a slight (8.6%) premium to use synthetic.

For this extra cost I get to change the oil 1/3 as many times. According to several studies I have seen the majority of engine wear happens in the first 3000 miles of oil use and levels off after that until the oil dies. So I think I am getting less engine wear by running the synthetic.

Looking at the synthetic oil life study currently being conducted on this site both Mobil 1 and Amsoil have gone 10,000 miles with no filter change and both were doing just fine at 10,000 miles according to the oil analysis.

My manual says 7,500 per oil change for normal driving condtions so I have not been concerned running a full synthetic 10,000 miles for the past several years. It is reassuring to see ojective test data suggesting that 10,000 miles between changes is relativly safe.

The bottom line is that for a premium of $1.70 for 10,000 miles I think I am getting a good value. ACtually, just thinking about it now, I would be willing to pay $1.70 for not changing the oil 2 times in 10,000 miles alone, forget about the engine ware.

 

[Mamala Bay]

I think in real life terms by using a quality synthetic oil the variation in engine wear is by no means a big difference in measurement. Your engine will outlast your vehicle by using either a quality synthetic oil such as Mobil or Amsoil by going at a 10 OCI in a given driving condition. Quote me wrong that Mobil or Amsoil are two very neck to neck quality synthetic that can be used in extended OCI with very good UOA as has been posted by varies members on this forum. Either oil will give a quality synthetic that I like to use because of synthetic benefits to your engine.

 

[Bishop]

Extended engine life through using synthetics is unfortunately still a myth, with just not enough proof out there to justify it.
Likewise reduced engine wear via the use of full synth oils is also a popular myth, the lubricating properties of a full synth oils are good, but you have to remember the real reasons for why it was originally invented, before you buy into the modern day marketing hype.

I have seen dino fed engines last half a millions miles on longish/lazy oil change intervals, and synth fed engines die at under 100000 miles, it's not nearly as clear cut as some of the oil companies would have you believe.

There are always risks when running long oil change intervals, and for many people, it's just not a risk worth taking.
And as much as any oil can prolong the life of any engine, the one point worth remembering is that neither cars, or engine were ever designed to last forever, it's all designed to provide a set amount of life, and then die to make way for the next generation.

Seriously though, what good is an engine that lasts a million miles plus, if the rest of the car started falling apart 500000miles ago...

 

[dropitby]

Hate to say it but the Truckers can't justify the cost and lets face it they would use it if the price was right I'm sure. So what will happen Dino will catch up to the price of synthetic because they shure as H+&* aren't going to lower the price of synthetics.

 

[JohnnyO]

By using synthetics, I figure the Arabs get less of my money. Reason enough.

 

[Jimbo]

quote:

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Originally posted by JohnnyO:
By using synthetics, I figure the Arabs get less of my money. Reason enough.

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The feedstocks for synthetics oils, except ultra-expensive esters, still come from the refinery stream, in other words, crude oil. This includes PAO and AN, not just Group III.

 

[james1]

With a warranty that recommends (requires?) 5W-20, I feel better with the higher viscosity of the MC oil at 8.8 than M1 0W-20 at 8.4 and HT/HS of 2.65 vs. 2.61. Besides, my local Wal-Mart doesn't carry the 0W-20. Also, I am one of those freaks that kinda looks forward to the next oil change!

I am not anti-synthetic though. I am currently running GC in a car calling for 5W-30 and ran M1 5W-30 in it for a couple of years now.

 

[Flimflam]

quote:

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Originally posted by Bishop:
Extended engine life through using synthetics is unfortunately still a myth, with just not enough proof out there to justify it.


I have seen dino fed engines last half a millions miles on longish/lazy oil change intervals, and synth fed engines die at under 100000 miles, it's not nearly as clear cut as some of the oil companies would have you believe.

There are always risks when running long oil change intervals..... (some deleted...)

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Bishop, you must be an old timer. I know some old timer mechanics who witnessed what happened to cars with the early versions of syn oil poured into them. A good number simply died within a week or two of the synthetic diet. This was way back in late 1970's, very early 1980's.

Either the early synthetics were not as well made as the ones we see today, or the cars in those days were not built for synthetic.

Anyway, the funny part of it is, those old timers who either witnessed or had happen to them the bad effects of early synthetic, they are still paranoid about the synthetic stuff today.

But as for your comment about syn-fed cars dying at 100,000 miles or less, it brings to mind an old beater ford Bronco 351 v-8 that I bought for $2,500. To use synthetic in that thing would be a waste of money, and it would not make a difference of 1 minute of engine lifespan, whether one used $50/quart Shell Ultra Helix or 30-cents per quart "closeout special" Engine Death. For most people(including myself!!!!), their ride is just not special or exclusive enough to justify spending extra money on fancy motor oil. And to me, anything more expensive than $1.89 a quart is a fancy motor oil.

 

[wulimaster]

quote:

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Originally posted by dropitby:
Hate to say it but the Truckers can't justify the cost and lets face it they would use it if the price was right I'm sure. So what will happen Dino will catch up to the price of synthetic because they shure as H+&* aren't going to lower the price of synthetics.

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Actually it is not the truckers who do the justifying. It is the Fleet maintenance managers/directors/VP's. The excuses they give have little to do with economics though.

 

[budweiser]

(I have 450SL BENZ 1979)


I put syn.20/50, started to leak a little--so will probley go back to a good dino. Budweiser

 

[outrun]

Jimbbo,

I disagree with the Ester synthesis being the only independent of crude oil product.

PAO's are based on benzene which can either be synethesized via crude oil base stocks or be made ground up.

As you know its part of the various liquid to gas reactions involving ethylene (2H=H2)

However in tangent with your statement I would suspect ground up made benzenes to be much more expensive.

So on that argument yes, group 4 & 5 synthetics can be totally independent of what OPEC spells out for us.

 

[JohnnyO]

quote:

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Originally posted by outrun:
So on that argument yes, group 4 & 5 synthetics can be totally independent of what OPEC spells out for us.

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Right. Besides, I didn't say "none" I said "less".

 

[Pitbull]

How about this. If you buy new vehicles and are a normal driver and you change oil/filter based on the manufactures recommendations and you trade vehicles within 100K miles, then you would be fine/conservative using a premium dino oil. Benefits are warranty is in place and you save some $$$.

 

[SEBZX79]

I use syn because I dont feel like changing oil every month or so. I switched to syn about 15k miles ago and now run 8k-10k miles before changing on M1 0w40. My time is more valuble then that and the price difference is almost 0 between 3k OCI on dino and 10k OCI on syn.

seb

 

[Bishop]

Maybe it's just me, but I really don't see the "time" excuse as valid for long change intervals, it's just not realistic.

On a weekend it takes maybe 5-10mins to pull the sump plug, you let brain fade take over and watch some TV for 30mins while it drains, maybe have the usual 5 cups of coffee, 10 cigs etc, then remember you pulled the sump plug 5 hours ago and figure it's time to get off your lazy *** and finish, then spend the next 5mins changing the filter, and the final 5-10 putting the sump plug back in and refilling the oil, and that's it, your done.

So 15-30mins of your "real" time, on a day when you really had nothing better to do anyway, maybe I'm missing something, but since when was that either hard, or time consuming???

 

[Mamala Bay]

Bishop quotes:

quote:

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So 15-30mins of your "real" time, on a day when you really had nothing better to do anyway, maybe I'm missing something, but since when was that either hard, or time consuming???

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quote:

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Change oil every 2k miles puts ALOT of used motor oil and used filters into the environment . While most people don't think about this I'm quite sure this will be a big issue for my great great great grandkids. Just something to think about.

p.s. I'm assuming the internal combustion engine will still be around.

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What do you do with all that frequent used oil. I use to think like that but feel a sense to be responsibile for the enviroment.

That's a lot of used dino oil or maybe it can be used for clean fuel burning or some kind of clean recycled oil for another purpose. We got H-Power here where used oiled is burned but extracts clean byproducts in the atmosphere. I don't know if I do have an answer as there are other oil byproducts in our everyday lives that are harmful to the enviroment.

 

[Mamala Bay]

Would a 4K-7.5K mile OCI be a better solution if not going with 10K synthetic extended OCI. I think that would be a more realistic situation for car owners who DO care about engines OCI.

 

[2019CRVlx]

I guess a more specific question I should have asked is, "Does premium DINOs, e.g. Chevron Supreme, offer someting in their additive packages that you can't get in M1"?

 

[jsharp]

quote:

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Originally posted by Flimflam:
Bishop, you must be an old timer. I know some old timer mechanics who witnessed what happened to cars with the early versions of syn oil poured into them. A good number simply died within a week or two of the synthetic diet. This was way back in late 1970's, very early 1980's.

Either the early synthetics were not as well made as the ones we see today, or the cars in those days were not built for synthetic.

Anyway, the funny part of it is, those old timers who either witnessed or had happen to them the bad effects of early synthetic, they are still paranoid about the synthetic stuff today.

But as for your comment about syn-fed cars dying at 100,000 miles or less, it brings to mind an old beater ford Bronco 351 v-8 that I bought for $2,500. To use synthetic in that thing would be a waste of money, and it would not make a difference of 1 minute of engine lifespan, whether one used $50/quart Shell Ultra Helix or 30-cents per quart "closeout special" Engine Death. For most people(including myself!!!!), their ride is just not special or exclusive enough to justify spending extra money on fancy motor oil. And to me, anything more expensive than $1.89 a quart is a fancy motor oil.

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Maybe some cars. In 1980 I bought a brand new Toyota. At 3000 miles I started using Mobil 1 ( remember the 20 weight variety? ) and running 8K-10K OCI's. When I sold it with 165K miles it was still running well and using very little oil between changes.

I also owned a number of other vehicles in the 70's and 80's that were sludged and/or worn out at 100K miles or less after a steady diet of "quality" dino changed at 2K-3K miles.

My opinion is on the first day Mobil 1 was sold every dino lube of the day was inferior and obsolete...

 

[Mamala Bay]

My personal opinion Chevron Supreme and others that have followed has taken a greater stride in advancement in meaningful purpose in OCI than synthetic oil as we see what the market has given the consumers to chose from.

And it's advancing greater for the consumer in the synthetic blend that makes synthetic oil not in that elite situation years ago, but still a great product.

I see the gap in performance from dino to synthetic closing in and with sythetic blend, synthetic oil needs to redirect itself with a better product should synthetic blend become market favorite.

I can't say I have an answer to that question only the consumer in what he does believe in what the market has to offer...If there is, from the original point it starts from Chevron(dino) which is leading to synthetic blend and the market and consumer will consequently bring a needed advancement in synthetic oil.