If you can be sure of the filter never gets loaded and the oil never gets overheated or the oil gets full of solids then it can do 100,000 miles. Bimmers are the ultimate lease vehicle so is it a lease? Rr did you buy it? If you bought it change the oil. Usually trannies fail from parts failure. If the trans is going to live, clean oil will make it last as long as it can last . Clean oil will not keep low quality minimal strenght parts from breaking, no not even Amsoil.
Does Dexron VI last 100k?
- Thread starter ryland
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: Steve S
If you can be sure of the filter never gets loaded and the oil never gets overheated or the oil gets full of solids then it can do 100,000 miles. Bimmers are the ultimate lease vehicle so is it a lease? Rr did you buy it? If you bought it change the oil. Usually trannies fail from parts failure. If the trans is going to live, clean oil will make it last as long as it can last . Clean oil will not keep low quality minimal strenght parts from breaking, no not even Amsoil.
I wrote a check for it, just like with everything that depreciates that I buy.. I plan to change it out at 60K.. screw BMW.
If you can be sure of the filter never gets loaded and the oil never gets overheated or the oil gets full of solids then it can do 100,000 miles. Bimmers are the ultimate lease vehicle so is it a lease? Rr did you buy it? If you bought it change the oil. Usually trannies fail from parts failure. If the trans is going to live, clean oil will make it last as long as it can last . Clean oil will not keep low quality minimal strenght parts from breaking, no not even Amsoil.
I wrote a check for it, just like with everything that depreciates that I buy.. I plan to change it out at 60K.. screw BMW.
dnewton3
Staff member
I've long since investigated, and now fallen away from, this topic in general.
I looked deeply into it because my truck (2006 Dmax/Allison Chevy 4x4) is very much affected by this topic.
And you guys have found the asnwer, but not really recognized it.
Here it is in a nutshell: (note - I'm going to ignore the issues of Allison C4 fluids, and others, because they are not core to this thread.)
Before DEX VI, GM owned Allison. Allison utilized DEX III type products, but they were lumped into two groups; licensed TES-295 fluids, and those that were not licensed. They actually called the latter (and still do) "non TES-295" fluids.
Then, in 2006 GM anounced it was dropping DEX III licenses, and introducing DEX VI. Allison is now in a conundrem becase DEX VI is a "better" fluid than the DEX III, but certainly not as good as TES-295 fluids. So, Allison actually had (at the time) approved DEX VI for use in Allison trannies. I've seen and printed out the documents where Allison approved the use of DEX VI, but only after certain serial number cutoffs, due to issues of seal compatibility and the chemistry of DEX VI licensed products. After that serial number cutoff, the seals are OK and so is the use of DEX VI.
During that time (from 2006 until GM sold Allison), Allison created a "new" fluid spec; TES-389. That spec essentially copied over the former DEX III characteristics, and assured seal compatibility. Of note, Mobil's conventional "D/M ATF" is actually still TES-389 licensed to this day, as are many others. So, at that time, there were really three approved fluids; TES-295, TES-389, and DEX VI. Why? Becasuse Allison had their own specs, and also had to "approve" of the use of daddy General's DEX VI.
However, as far as maintenance schedules go, there were (and are) only two catagories; TES-295 and non-TES-295. So, they effectively created a new spec (TES-389) and then lumped in DEX VI next to it, and called them "non-TES-295" fluids. Clearly, there are some distinct performance and chemistry differences between (formerly DEX III) TES-389 fluids and DEX VI, but Allison simply didn't care enough to separate them. You either got the "best" (TES-295) or "non-best" (anything else approved, but below TES-295).
Then, just a couple years ago, GM sold Allison. GM retained the production ability and name claim to the Allison 1000 series tranny, which is why they still use it to this day. GM uses and authorizes DEX VI in the Allison 1000, made in the Baltimore plant. Allison (now seperated from GM) still also makes 1000 series trannies at their Indianapolis facility. But they no longer approve DEX VI (even though they used to).
This was all about corporate politics from the very beginning. It was also about who sold you the product, and what vehicle it was wrapped inside of. If you bought a GM 2500/3500HD truck, then GM would warranty the tranny, but if you got a GM 4500/5500 truck, Allison would warrant the tranny. In fact, you could take your Chevy/GMC 2500 HD truck to an Allison approved tranny shop, but if you wanted warranty work done, they would turn you away and refer you to a GM dealership! Silly, isn't it?
GM approves the use of DEX VI in nearly all former DEX III applications, including those trucks with Allison 1000 trannies.
Allison used to approve of DEX VI in certain "post cut off" applications, but no longer does because they don't have to answer to GM now. GM can no longer "strong arm" Allison. If GM wanted to have Allison approve DEX VI, it would now have to submit DEX VI for testing and license approval, just as other companies do. Fat chance that will ever happen.
It seems convoluted until you understand the politics involved, and sequence of events. Then, it's simple. You have to understand that "Allison" the company is a bit different from "Allison" the nameplate you see on the side of a Chevy/GMC truck. GM kept the rights to use that name and design of the 1000 tranny, but not exclusive rights, as Allison can and does also produce it.
Here's the real kick in the pants. My 2006 Dmax/Ally was made in early 2006. When I pull the tranny dipstick, it actually reads "USE Dex VI" on it (or something like that). Ironically, my tranny was made BEFORE the seal material changeover and serial # cutoff. So, essentially, if I continued to use DEX VI, it's concieveable I would have ended up with leaking seals. No one that I can reasonably find knows for sure when GM stopped using DEX III in the Allison 1000, and started using DEX VI. It's known to have happend in 2006, but when is not really nailed down. All the GM/Baltimore trannies were DEX III before the change, and then DEX VI after the change. But, the Allison/Indy trannies have been, and continue to be, tested and shipped with TES-295.
Ain't politics grand?
It's like two divorced parents arguing over a child they have in common, and what food the kid is allowed to eat (or not eat).
I looked deeply into it because my truck (2006 Dmax/Allison Chevy 4x4) is very much affected by this topic.
And you guys have found the asnwer, but not really recognized it.
Here it is in a nutshell: (note - I'm going to ignore the issues of Allison C4 fluids, and others, because they are not core to this thread.)
Before DEX VI, GM owned Allison. Allison utilized DEX III type products, but they were lumped into two groups; licensed TES-295 fluids, and those that were not licensed. They actually called the latter (and still do) "non TES-295" fluids.
Then, in 2006 GM anounced it was dropping DEX III licenses, and introducing DEX VI. Allison is now in a conundrem becase DEX VI is a "better" fluid than the DEX III, but certainly not as good as TES-295 fluids. So, Allison actually had (at the time) approved DEX VI for use in Allison trannies. I've seen and printed out the documents where Allison approved the use of DEX VI, but only after certain serial number cutoffs, due to issues of seal compatibility and the chemistry of DEX VI licensed products. After that serial number cutoff, the seals are OK and so is the use of DEX VI.
During that time (from 2006 until GM sold Allison), Allison created a "new" fluid spec; TES-389. That spec essentially copied over the former DEX III characteristics, and assured seal compatibility. Of note, Mobil's conventional "D/M ATF" is actually still TES-389 licensed to this day, as are many others. So, at that time, there were really three approved fluids; TES-295, TES-389, and DEX VI. Why? Becasuse Allison had their own specs, and also had to "approve" of the use of daddy General's DEX VI.
However, as far as maintenance schedules go, there were (and are) only two catagories; TES-295 and non-TES-295. So, they effectively created a new spec (TES-389) and then lumped in DEX VI next to it, and called them "non-TES-295" fluids. Clearly, there are some distinct performance and chemistry differences between (formerly DEX III) TES-389 fluids and DEX VI, but Allison simply didn't care enough to separate them. You either got the "best" (TES-295) or "non-best" (anything else approved, but below TES-295).
Then, just a couple years ago, GM sold Allison. GM retained the production ability and name claim to the Allison 1000 series tranny, which is why they still use it to this day. GM uses and authorizes DEX VI in the Allison 1000, made in the Baltimore plant. Allison (now seperated from GM) still also makes 1000 series trannies at their Indianapolis facility. But they no longer approve DEX VI (even though they used to).
This was all about corporate politics from the very beginning. It was also about who sold you the product, and what vehicle it was wrapped inside of. If you bought a GM 2500/3500HD truck, then GM would warranty the tranny, but if you got a GM 4500/5500 truck, Allison would warrant the tranny. In fact, you could take your Chevy/GMC 2500 HD truck to an Allison approved tranny shop, but if you wanted warranty work done, they would turn you away and refer you to a GM dealership! Silly, isn't it?
GM approves the use of DEX VI in nearly all former DEX III applications, including those trucks with Allison 1000 trannies.
Allison used to approve of DEX VI in certain "post cut off" applications, but no longer does because they don't have to answer to GM now. GM can no longer "strong arm" Allison. If GM wanted to have Allison approve DEX VI, it would now have to submit DEX VI for testing and license approval, just as other companies do. Fat chance that will ever happen.
It seems convoluted until you understand the politics involved, and sequence of events. Then, it's simple. You have to understand that "Allison" the company is a bit different from "Allison" the nameplate you see on the side of a Chevy/GMC truck. GM kept the rights to use that name and design of the 1000 tranny, but not exclusive rights, as Allison can and does also produce it.
Here's the real kick in the pants. My 2006 Dmax/Ally was made in early 2006. When I pull the tranny dipstick, it actually reads "USE Dex VI" on it (or something like that). Ironically, my tranny was made BEFORE the seal material changeover and serial # cutoff. So, essentially, if I continued to use DEX VI, it's concieveable I would have ended up with leaking seals. No one that I can reasonably find knows for sure when GM stopped using DEX III in the Allison 1000, and started using DEX VI. It's known to have happend in 2006, but when is not really nailed down. All the GM/Baltimore trannies were DEX III before the change, and then DEX VI after the change. But, the Allison/Indy trannies have been, and continue to be, tested and shipped with TES-295.
Ain't politics grand?
It's like two divorced parents arguing over a child they have in common, and what food the kid is allowed to eat (or not eat).
Last edited:
Thanks for the detailed explanation.
Originally Posted By: PDX2500HD
Originally Posted By: Steve S
If you can be sure of the filter never gets loaded and the oil never gets overheated or the oil gets full of solids then it can do 100,000 miles. Bimmers are the ultimate lease vehicle so is it a lease? Rr did you buy it? If you bought it change the oil. Usually trannies fail from parts failure. If the trans is going to live, clean oil will make it last as long as it can last . Clean oil will not keep low quality minimal strenght parts from breaking, no not even Amsoil.
The oil changes are all you can do to make it live as long as it can.
I wrote a check for it, just like with everything that depreciates that I buy.. I plan to change it out at 60K.. screw BMW.
Originally Posted By: Steve S
If you can be sure of the filter never gets loaded and the oil never gets overheated or the oil gets full of solids then it can do 100,000 miles. Bimmers are the ultimate lease vehicle so is it a lease? Rr did you buy it? If you bought it change the oil. Usually trannies fail from parts failure. If the trans is going to live, clean oil will make it last as long as it can last . Clean oil will not keep low quality minimal strenght parts from breaking, no not even Amsoil.
The oil changes are all you can do to make it live as long as it can.
I wrote a check for it, just like with everything that depreciates that I buy.. I plan to change it out at 60K.. screw BMW.
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2020
- Messages
- 58
Ok....I have a 1994 Chevy P-32 chassis Fleetwood Southwind Storm 28ft with a 454 TBI w/4L80E trans using DexVI. It currently has 64.XXX on the OD. First thing I did when I purchased it was to change the trans fluid and filter at 45,XXX (Sept 2014). At ~55,XXX (Sept 2019) I replaced both shift solenoids A & B, wiring harness and turned up the force actuator 1/2 turn.
What interval would you guys recommend changing the trans at given it DexVI now as opposed to DexIIE which was what it started with in 1994? When I dropped the fluid for the above parts replacements I was on the road (trip) and the trans guy (Jerrys Clutch & transmission - Grants Pass, Or.) mentioned the fluid was in great shape as it was draining out. We poured it back into the trans. The fluid now has 19,XXX on it.
What interval would you guys recommend changing the trans at given it DexVI now as opposed to DexIIE which was what it started with in 1994? When I dropped the fluid for the above parts replacements I was on the road (trip) and the trans guy (Jerrys Clutch & transmission - Grants Pass, Or.) mentioned the fluid was in great shape as it was draining out. We poured it back into the trans. The fluid now has 19,XXX on it.
It really depends on what oil temps you are running. Assuming the vehicle has decent cooling, I'd think Dex VI would last 50,000 miles and you could run TES-295 in that motorhome as a lifetime fill.
Yep-I'm actually someone who had has three Silverados with the 6 speed. On the 2011 I had I changed it out at 50,000 miles (25,000 miles of which was towing my 5,500-30 foot travel trailer) and at the 50,000 mile interval the fluid that came out visually looked great.
So yes-Mark is mistaken.
Lots of Toyota trans failures with higher milages and WS fluid. I switched ours to maxlife.
Agree...there are a bunch of failure modes in an automatic transmission. Some related to lube, and some not.
- Status
