Do you use radar/laser detectors?

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Since there IS a system which is ABLE to set a safe limit, and since the procedure is intentionally IGNORED most of the time, I see no "ethical" reason NOT to protect myself with a detector.

...

...the biggest danger I see out there on the highway are moron distracted drivers paying NO attention to what might be around them and doing INTENTIONALLy stupid things like tailgating, and making the famous passing lane to exit swan dive.
Since I see little or NO attempt by "law enforcement" to deal with this type of moving violation, as opposed to "revenue enhancement" by hiding behind a bush and handing out "speeding" tickets on roads where the proper and safe limit might be 10 to 15 mph higher, I say use your detector, your CB (with stealth antenna) and anything else you can rely on to avoid it.

Well said.

I'm getting a whiff of "screw the authorities" in your post that I can't agree with. However, to the extent that you're taking issue with the rules themselves, I'm pretty sure I agree completely.

 

[DBMaster]

I am not trying to draw comparisons, though, this country wouldn't even exist were it not for those who chose to say, "Screw the authorities."

Once the "temporary" 55 speed limit became entrenched in the early 70's what was the primary driver behind eliminating it as the national standard?

SOMETIMES, it takes civil disobedience to bring about changes. While we don't get our heads beat in by police we do get to suffer through our wallets.

So, do you speed as a protest? It only makes a significant difference in travel time for relatively long trips. I often wonder about the legitimacy of rules that a majority defies. I know no answers here. What are your ideas? Idealistic statements like, "It's the law so you are obliged to obey it" do not count as ideas.

 

[d00df00d]

Good points. All I meant to say was that I don't like acting out of spite. If I'm going to snub a rule, it's because I think that rule is illegitimate, not because I want to get at whoever made it.

I completely agree with what you say about civil disobedience.

I definitely don't speed as a protest. I decide my speed based on my circumstances (other drivers, road conditions, surroundings, etc.). Sometimes posted speed limits are very useful guides.

 

[DBMaster]

For speeding to be used as civil disobedience many more would need to take their battles to the court (rather than taking defensive driving, paying the fines, or using deferred disposition). Most will not. Once in court, facts and logical arguments would need to be presented as to why the speed limit in question is too low. Better would be to have media members there to make record of the proceedings.

As it stands now, intentional or not, speeding citations are an industry unto themselves. This industry enriches attorneys, courts, city coffers, and insurance carriers.

So, either make a point of using your ticket to lodge your protest or bring about media attention, stop speeding, or pay the piper and shut up.

 

[DBMaster]

^I forgot about driving schools. Traffic tickets are a real boon to driving schools - live and online.

 

[SlipperyPete]

Originally Posted By: DBMaster
Once in court, facts and logical arguments would need to be presented as to why the speed limit in question is too low.


None of that would even be entertained in court because speeding is a strict liability offense. The only issue is did you or didn't you. Those arguments would have to be made to those who set the speed limits.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: DBMaster
For speeding to be used as civil disobedience many more would need to take their battles to the court (rather than taking defensive driving, paying the fines, or using deferred disposition). Most will not. Once in court, facts and logical arguments would need to be presented as to why the speed limit in question is too low. Better would be to have media members there to make record of the proceedings.

As it stands now, intentional or not, speeding citations are an industry unto themselves. This industry enriches attorneys, courts, city coffers, and insurance carriers.

So, either make a point of using your ticket to lodge your protest or bring about media attention, stop speeding, or pay the piper and shut up.



This isn't necessarily true. The reason that the speed limit on the NYS thruway was raised from 55 to 65 is because nobody drove the speed limit. The NYS goverment literally said as much when they were deliberating it. And then they finally ended up raising it.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
Once in court, facts and logical arguments would need to be presented as to why the speed limit in question is too low.


None of that would even be entertained in court because speeding is a strict liability offense. The only issue is did you or didn't you. Those arguments would have to be made to those who set the speed limits.


Not always true...

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/feeding-the-machine-sandbagging-on-speed-limits

 

[SlipperyPete]

That guy actually had a legal argument that the city had set speed limits in violation of state law. He would have been shut down quickly had he simply argued the speed limit was too low based on anything else.

 

[SteveSRT8]

^^^Virtually all states do the same thing. The 85th Percentile rule is well documented and specifically referenced by many states so there is room to move for the courts.

Most jurisdictions will simply rubber stamp you guilty though.

 

[JetStar]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
When the national speed limit was 55, the public felt preyed upon by excessive enforcement (pulled over for 60...).

Now that reasonableness has returned to speed limits, and gas is more expensive, most folks drive closer to the limit and don't get ticketed as much. Couple that with the nature of LIDAR and POP...which are difficult to counter, the market no longer exists...


My thoughts exactly, glad I read all the posts.

 

[SlipperyPete]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
^^^Virtually all states do the same thing. The 85th Percentile rule is well documented and specifically referenced by many states so there is room to move for the courts.

Most jurisdictions will simply rubber stamp you guilty though.


If the 85th percentile rule, or any other method for that matter, is required by statute to be used you would definitely have an argument.

 

[DBMaster]

We need more wealthy, influential people to get speeding tickets!

Now I'm just being silly - sort of.

 

[Mykl]

Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
speeding (and having a need for a radar detector) is immature, selfish and dangerous. period.

that said, i owned one back in the 90's when they actually worked and were useful and drove over the speed limit because i was immature, selfish, and dangerous.


...and currently you're ignorant, immature, selfish, and wrong.

http://www.hwysafety.com/hwy_montana_2001.htm

Cliff notes: when Montana reinstated speed limits fatalities doubled.

I don't know what "dangerous" means to you, but my definition is "more likely to die."

 

[Mykl]

The first line in what I posted above was harsher than it needed to be and I apologize for that.

Fact is, with the data available, speed limits in non pedestrian areas cause more fatalities than they save.

 

[SlipperyPete]

Originally Posted By: Mykl
Fact is, with the data available, speed limits in non pedestrian areas cause more fatalities than they save.


I don't put much stock in numbers from one 12 month period, especially from a writer with an agenda who didn't provide any links to the original data. Fatality totals can vary quite a bit from year to year under the same conditions. It would be much more convincing to see the numbers for five or ten years after the change.

 

[OtisBlkR1]

OP: Back in the day i had a pretty fast camaro that i like to hammer down in, i recall one day sniffing through a pawn shop and coming across a Escort detector. It didnt look cheap like many i had seen before, it was very, very slip and the surface of it felt textured, it was greay in color. the pawn shop price was $60.00 bucks.. i scooped it up. (around 1996-1997)

That sucker saved my bacon countless times, On more than one occasion it would start alerting (miles) YES, Miles.. before i reached the cop! I would say that no less than 6-7 tickets didnt happen as i slowed way down when it would start chirping..
I was at the local hangout one night and left my window down.. sticky fingers got it.

Nowadays im alot slower, i leave earlier, or if im running behind and its important, i will call ahead and inform whoever i may be a little late.

Heck even the other night i got the urge to find out if my 3.0 accord had a limiter in it, the little devel on my shoulder let me get up to 65 in a 55 before the angel on the other shoulder whispered and i backed right back down..

Im just not in the hurry i used to be in. guess its part of growing up.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

Most jurisdictions will simply rubber stamp you guilty though.


It also depends on the philosophy of each judge; the speeders I didn't feel sorry for were the ones blasting through school zones, work zones, subdivisions, and the like. 15-20 over on a deserted two lane or rural interstate? No big deal.
Then there was the judge down the hall who thought that your head would explode if you drove over 55(although considering that he owned a Cavalier and a Malibu wagon he may well have had a basis for that belief...)

 

[TechnoLoGs]

Great discussion.

Can we also talk about:

1. Cruise at 4 or 5MPH over limit; At 70 in Indiana.. Safe or not (as far as, will Smoky come out and stop you?)

2. How about the "Out Of State Plates" theory of ticketing?
*The "Out Of State Plates" theory is that, if a group of cars are all speeding, or cars are all going same rate of speed, even if 5MPH over as in "Flow of traffic" which IS lawful, that the out-of-state plates car will be ticketed and stopped, while others that bear same state plates will be ignored so that the cop will favor the lesser violation on an out-of-state plate, even pressure driver into a search under auspice of "We get a lot of traffickers."

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: DBMaster
Ha, around here if the cops aren't rushing off to some emergency, they drive slightly below the speed limit to enjoy the fun of seeing traffic back up behind them since everybody seems to be scared to pass a cop. If I can make it up to the front of the mess I will pass. Then, all of a sudden, others discover that they have testicles after all.


Here, they're running 90+MPH with phones glued to their ears, tailgating 6" from the bumper of anyone who doesn't move over instantly, and shining hi-beams & spotlights if they don't move over in 15 seconds. Every time I see them do this to a full-sized van or an old Suburban, I have this pleasant thought involving the words "brake check".