Do you think warranty will be voided if...

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Solarent

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So one of the common questions we get here on BITOG is about oil change intervals during the warranty period on newer vehicles. This got me thinking:

If I were to use a high quality synthetic oil, good filtration during my warranty period and doubled the OCI called for in the owners manual, but had used oil analysis results to justify the extended OCI would a manufacturer be within their rights to void my warranty? Or would my used oil analysis cover it? Do you think that used oil analysis would need to be run with every OC or could I get away with doing it for the first 3-5 changes to establish a trend and then say once a year after that?

I am personally of the opinion that in this hypothetical situation the used oil analysis would help me protect my warranty; but would love to hear the consensus from the BITOG community.
 
it would depend on what failed. If your engine is full of sludge and failed a used oil analysis wont help you.

Most newer cars you cant double the oci with syn, due to fuel dilution or the fact that they already spec syn oil, or severe service.


I do think you could run severe service out to the normal interval with syn oil(usually)

Your question is inprecise and you would need to name an exact car and model for a good answer.. you cant generalize.

For example a chevy cruze has an OLM no you cant go 30k just with syn.

or some of the newer GM DI engines have what I would call severe fuel dilution..

or in my case subaru already spec's syn oil..
 
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I doubt a used oil analysis would help any and I don't see how there is any wiggle room in the requirements of the warranty.

If I were the dealership/manufacturer I'd tell you to ask the used oil analysis shop to cover the expense of the repair since they are the ones who said it would be OK (and obviously it wasn't).
 
I think that the requirement would be on the manufacturer to prove how it was the lube that caused the failure.

That said, what will happen is that this becomes a bleeding match, where there will be enough back and forth that you may be without a vehicle for a long time.

Further, for you to prove you are right and they are wrong, you may well need to go to court, and may well need a subject witness. That will likely cost >$100/hr plus travel, so figure $2000 when all is said and done, minimum.

Sound worth it for something that is so easily made a non-issue.
 
I don't think a dealer or manufacturer would even consider a used oil analysis. If there's an engine failure and you admit you went longer than recommended on oil changes, I bet you'd be denied.

That's just my hunch, of course.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I think that the requirement would be on the manufacturer to prove how it was the lube that caused the failure.

That said, what will happen is that this becomes a bleeding match, where there will be enough back and forth that you may be without a vehicle for a long time.

Further, for you to prove you are right and they are wrong, you may well need to go to court, and may well need a subject witness. That will likely cost >$100/hr plus travel, so figure $2000 when all is said and done, minimum.

Big +1 on this.

It's just not worth the hassle. Plus, the money you'll be spending on used oil analysis could have easily been spent on more frequent oil changes to keep the warranty intact.
 
I do agree that going up against a manufacturer in court may be cost prohibitive in my hypothetical case.

I do however think that it's interesting that some of the same members who extol the use of UOA and extended OCI's after the warranty period will encourage the following of the OM schedule while still under warranty. The effects of the extended OCI on the will be the same during the warranty period as after. The obvious difference being that the cost of repair (when required) isn't out of pocket during the warranty period and therefore better be safe then sorry.
 
Just do the maximum recommended OCI, using dino and cheaper filter, until you're out of warranty, then do anything you want. The only time I've heard of a used oil analysis helping in a warranty situation is when it was used to prove engine deterioration/trouble while still under warranty with NORMAL oil changes.
 
My thoughts? I do whatever I want when it comes to oil changes within and outside of warranty.
My reason? The most rare failure you could ever have on a car is an internal engine oil related failure. I don't expect to have any problems with my Honda 1.8L that are oil problems, and therefore I do whatever I want.

I've had some other small warranty work done, nothing to do with oil changes, and it's obviously covered.

Do whatever you want, just don't blow up your engine within warranty.
 
The Magnusmoss Act states that it is the responsibility of the dealer to prove to you that whatever you did caused the failure.

If they simply say that your OCI was too long without providing proof of it, they can't win. You will thou be required to run a used oil analysis on each extended drain to capture the results.
 
Originally Posted By: Solarent
So one of the common questions we get here on BITOG is about oil change intervals during the warranty period on newer vehicles. This got me thinking:

If I were to use a high quality synthetic oil, good filtration during my warranty period and doubled the OCI called for in the owners manual, but had used oil analysis results to justify the extended OCI would a manufacturer be within their rights to void my warranty? Or would my used oil analysis cover it? Do you think that used oil analysis would need to be run with every OC or could I get away with doing it for the first 3-5 changes to establish a trend and then say once a year after that?

I am personally of the opinion that in this hypothetical situation the used oil analysis would help me protect my warranty; but would love to hear the consensus from the BITOG community.


I think you'd be asking for trouble if you had a lubrication related failure, no if, and's, or buts. You have to follow the conditions outlined by the automaker in order for them to honor their warranty. You could ask the company who provided the used oil analysis to pay for the warranty claim, see where that gets you. Or ask the oil company to pay for the warranty claim.

Why should the car mfg be responsible if you didn't follow their warranty requirements?
 
Originally Posted By: dubie2003
The Magnusmoss Act states that it is the responsibility of the dealer to prove to you that whatever you did caused the failure.

If they simply say that your OCI was too long without providing proof of it, they can't win. You will thou be required to run a used oil analysis on each extended drain to capture the results.


Maybe, but the real world operates much different. When my daughter had to pursue the Lemon Law to return a Neon, Chrysler pulled every trick imaginable to deny the claim. We hired a lawyer to settle the problem.

What if there is ANY abnormality in the used oil analysis such as slightly high silica because you messed with the air filter a bit?

As stated above,it is so simple to avoid the risks. And, running lots of used oil analysis is going to negate any costs savings initially.
 
Originally Posted By: dubie2003
The Magnusmoss Act states that it is the responsibility of the dealer to prove to you that whatever you did caused the failure.

If they simply say that your OCI was too long without providing proof of it, they can't win. You will thou be required to run a used oil analysis on each extended drain to capture the results.



Yes they can win and they will win. What do they have to "prove?" All they have to do is state the obvious that the maintenance schedule was not followed. That's all the proof they need. Then it is up to you to begin the long process of fighting the manufacturer.

Will they automatically void your warranty? That would depend on the area rep that has to authorize the engine replacement, what mood he's in, the relationship you have with the dealer, and what his balance sheet looks like that month or quarter.

We are all aware of what the is in MM, but the reality is that if you give the manufacturer an out on a very expensive repair, then the burden of proof is on you to disprove their "proof."
 
Thanks to everyone for their input thus far. Here is another side to the coin I was also thinking about...

My wife drives a 2006 BMW 325i which uses an OLM that typically recommends 24 000 km oil changes (roughly 15000 miles) because I get free analysis through my work we have a trend showing the maximum OCI for her driving style is 18 000 km (just over 10 000 miles). If I was to follow the "recommended OCI" for her car then arguably we could have had more issues (her car has 1 month left of warranty). I have had to argue with more than one service manager about changing the oil too early despite my used oil analysis results.

Just FYI we have run this car on this OCI cycle basically since new and had no oil related issues or warranty hassle.
 
Originally Posted By: Sunnyinhollister
Originally Posted By: dubie2003
The Magnusmoss Act states that it is the responsibility of the dealer to prove to you that whatever you did caused the failure.

If they simply say that your OCI was too long without providing proof of it, they can't win. You will thou be required to run a used oil analysis on each extended drain to capture the results.





Yes they can win and they will win. What do they have to "prove?" All they have to do is state the obvious that the maintenance schedule was not followed. That's all the proof they need. Then it is up to you to begin the long process of fighting the manufacturer.

Will they automatically void your warranty? That would depend on the area rep that has to authorize the engine replacement, what mood he's in, the relationship you have with the dealer, and what his balance sheet looks like that month or quarter.

We are all aware of what the is in MM, but the reality is that if you give the manufacturer an out on a very expensive repair, then the burden of proof is on you to disprove their "proof."


Nicely put. The home team advantage goes to them too. They have more money than most individuals do, to defend their position if needed. Lets not forget it isn't their car that's broken down sitting in the shop waiting for proof that extending the intervals and not following the OM was or wasn't the cause of the problem, its your problem.
 
Originally Posted By: Sunnyinhollister
Originally Posted By: dubie2003
The Magnusmoss Act states that it is the responsibility of the dealer to prove to you that whatever you did caused the failure.

If they simply say that your OCI was too long without providing proof of it, they can't win. You will thou be required to run a used oil analysis on each extended drain to capture the results.




Yes they can win and they will win. What do they have to "prove?" All they have to do is state the obvious that the maintenance schedule was not followed. That's all the proof they need. Then it is up to you to begin the long process of fighting the manufacturer.

Will they automatically void your warranty? That would depend on the area rep that has to authorize the engine replacement, what mood he's in, the relationship you have with the dealer, and what his balance sheet looks like that month or quarter.

We are all aware of what the is in MM, but the reality is that if you give the manufacturer an out on a very expensive repair, then the burden of proof is on you to disprove their "proof."


When was the last time you have "lost" a warranty claim to a manufacture? A lot more often than not I have seen even in the cases were it is apparent gross negligence is the largest factor for engine failure if there was enough reasonable doubt the owner could in ligation "win" his/her case the manufacture will just do a "courtesy replacement" it would cost the manufacture less money versus legal fees and possible negative press. That being said many manufactures are recommending 7.5K and beyond OCI's even boutique oils would need some favorable circumstances to achieve 15K+ OCI's, I just do not see how this could even be "cost" effective.
 
Just to be perfectly clear: Doing an extended OCI will not automatically void the warranty. Some folks get really confused on this.

I do agree car dealers are slimier than the manufacturer and will try to get out of ANYTHING and EVERYTHING,this needs to be considered when shopping for a new car, not shopping for oil.
 
it depends on the cause of faiure. if there is sludge in the engine, it does not matter what kind of documentation you have. GM replaced my engine at 40k under warrantly due to piston slap. the mechanic made a comment on how clean the engine was inside. (M1) a friend toasted his dodge engine at 35k. there was sludge in the engine - so the dealer would not even consider wattanty replacement
 
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