Do you think stiffer springs will help with side to side swaying type motion?

[PandaBear]

Unlikely. If anything I think a softer spring and firmer sway bar would help.

Softer individual spring helps you go over uneven road or only one side hitting a speed bump. Firmer sway bar helps you move some of the constant load from side to side, keeping your car lean less to the outside of a curve in a turn.

 

[CKN]

Just to be clear-this is a vehicle which has a poor ride off the assembly line-the OP is trying to find a way to make better. And one of the things critics have written about is side to side motion-especially on the highway.

There is no FIX HERE. The car is engineered-I'm sure unintentionally to ride poor.

 

[lizpat]

Just to be clear-this is a vehicle which has a poor ride off the assembly line-the OP is trying to find a way to make better. And one of the things critics have written about is side to side motion-especially on the highway.

There is no FIX HERE. The car is engineered-I'm sure unintentionally to ride poor.

Hm.. you may very well be right about this!

I have to say though that after installing this "coilover" kit and lowering the car 1.75 inches, it really has improved a lot---to the point where I consider it a PLAUSIBLE replacement for the rock-solid Corolla. There's a playfulness to it, and I think this platform has some possibilities. I really just want a daily driver that's a little fun. The Corolla was absolutely dependable and solid but lacking in the fun department. The stock suspension really is quite terrible, it took an aftermarket company TEIN to remedy some of it---but I'm thinking I can go further, it needs more improvements.

There's a BILSTEIN B14 kit for it, there's BC Racing BR series coilover for it..

 

[MRC01]

Again, be skeptical of their advice to stiffen the front, not the rear. Generally speaking, all else equal, stiffer front = understeer; stiffer rear = oversteer. Most FWD cars have a lot of understeer dialed in by the factory, so reducing that improves the handling & steering. That means stiffen the rear first, then the front only if the rear wasn't enough.

Also, if your goal is reducing body roll and making it feel more planted, you may not need stiffer springs or shocks at all. A stiffer rear sway bar usually achieves both. But you've already installed the new shocks & springs, so where to go next?

My advice is to install a stiffer rear sway bar. The suspension works as a system; so if you installed stiffer springs, you likely need a stiffer rear sway bar to keep it balanced. And fortunately, that is much cheaper & easier to do than the springs & shocks you've already done.

 

[mightymousetech]

I just installed a TEIN Street Basis suspension kit for recently purchased my 2012 Honda Fit (base model.) It's considered a coilover but it's really just for daily driving, and not racing or any kind of sporty driving. It features height adjustability and that's it. Think of it as a matching set of springs and dampers for this car. It's been a nice improvement over the stock suspension which was very loosy goosy vague with motions left right front back and just awful. Had I not been able to rectify that with this kit, I would HAVE to sell the car, it was not livable on daily basis especially since I bought this Honda Fit to ultimately replace my 2007 Corolla (which is a VERY solid car.)

I'm still bothered by the amount of body roll and side to side swaying motion, especially when hitting a pothole or a bump or some quick change in elevation. The kit has indeed improved everything, but not enough for me to be truly happy.

Since this is a coilover, the springs can be replaced with a stiffer unit of the same length and inside diameter (70MM ID, TEIN springs) I have been assured by their tech support that going 1K stiffer (56 lb/in.) is within the tolerances of the damper. For the front we'll be going from 3K (168 lb/in.) to 4K (224 lb/in.) the rear will remain at 2K (112 lb/in.)

So, anyways, I'm hoping to remedy that type of unwanted motion which is evident especially during higher speeds. Do you think stiffer springs will do it? If I need to get another kit, I may go that route ultimately, but hopefully not.

It has a solid rear axle. The only way to fix that is to trade it in for a car with a real rear suspension.

 

[mightymousetech]

Just to be clear-this is a vehicle which has a poor ride off the assembly line-the OP is trying to find a way to make better. And one of the things critics have written about is side to side motion-especially on the highway.

There is no FIX HERE. The car is engineered-I'm sure unintentionally to ride poor.

Solid rear axle. Can’t “fix” that.

 

[930.engineering]

I'm thinking going 1K stiffer on the springs (first the front, then stiffing up the rear to 3K from 2K,) will make the car feel more "planted." That's ultimately the goal. The Corolla feels more planted to be honest, but this is a modified Corolla with a Blistein B12 kit (= Eibach Pro-Kit springs + Bilstein B8 dampers.)

Then you already know the answer. Throw that Tein garbage into the closest trash can and get a set of Bilsteins.
BC is the same low-price 'quality' as Tein. Bilstein B6/B8 are excellent value, leagues ahead of D2, K-Sport, Tein
and BC etc. without breaking the bank.
Did you get a proper alignment? If not, get it done. If you already did, post the alignment sheet here. I'll have a
look at it (suspension development engineer and former racing driver). What tires do you run?
Stiffer sway bars/anti-roll bars will help reducing roll and improve initial steering, but you need proper dampers
and proper state suspension bushings incl. correct alignment first.

@MRC01: Lizpat's car doesn't suffer from understeer. He doesn't even mention high-G cornering. So understeer
is likely not an issue. Proper dampers and bushings provided, stiffer front (or ideally both front and rear) springs
and both front and rear sway bars would help to reduce roll without too big penalty. I never ever felt happy with
a bigger rear sway bar only. My guess is, many people just do the rear bar since it's an easy swap and cheaper,
while the front sway bar is MUCH harder to swap on very most cars. Even more I do know from experience that
nearly all those who did the rear bar only never drove the same car equipped with stiffer bars both front and rear.
Doesn't that tell it all? I promise, I can get any FWD car neutral with stiff sway bars and stiff springs on both axles.

ps
probably best to swap the car but guess budget is tight

 

[Pew]

Just a heads up, in general terms the stiffer the spring the "stickier" the tires you'll need.

There was a regional Honda Fit class race series (NASA? SCCA? I don't remember who) that a lot of grassroots guys joined because the cars were cheap, easy to setup, and fun. This was a few years ago though and I don't know if it still exists. Some cars that don't look fun can be fun. Check out the grassroots motorsports forums or your regional facebook track groups.

@MRC01 My guess is, many people just do the rear bar since it's an easy swap and cheaper,
while the front sway bar is MUCH harder to swap on very most cars. Even more I do know from experience that
nearly all those who did the rear bar only never drove the same car equipped with stiffer bars both front and rear.
Doesn't that tell it all?

It's interesting that you mention that. Many people were doing only rear sways in the front-heavy Evo and claim it helped with the turn-in a lot by making the turning a lot more snappier. There were a lot less people that did the front and rear sways and all the track and AX goers agreed that the front sways - even just by itself - was definitely the way to go instead of rear sways only. On a street car it won't matter though since they won't be chasing the stopwatch.

 

[CKN]

Just a heads up, in general terms the stiffer the spring the "stickier" the tires you'll need.

There was a regional Honda Fit class race series (NASA? SCCA? I don't remember who) that a lot of grassroots guys joined because the cars were cheap, easy to setup, and fun. This was a few years ago though and I don't know if it still exists. Some cars that don't look fun can be fun. Check out the grassroots motorsports forums or your regional facebook track groups.

You can't make this car "fun" without making the ride degrade even worse than it is.

 

[2EHA]

It has a solid rear axle. The only way to fix that is to trade it in for a car with a real rear suspension.

torsion beam is not a death sentence.

go drive an older gti

 

[mightymousetech]

torsion beam is not a death sentence.

go drive an older gti

I’ve had three.

 

[MRC01]

@MRC01: Lizpat's car doesn't suffer from understeer. He doesn't even mention high-G cornering. So understeer
is likely not an issue. Proper dampers and bushings provided, stiffer front (or ideally both front and rear) springs
and both front and rear sway bars would help to reduce roll without too big penalty. I never ever felt happy with
a bigger rear sway bar only. My guess is, many people just do the rear bar since it's an easy swap and cheaper,
while the front sway bar is MUCH harder to swap on very most cars. Even more I do know from experience that
nearly all those who did the rear bar only never drove the same car equipped with stiffer bars both front and rear.
Doesn't that tell it all? I promise, I can get any FWD car neutral with stiff sway bars and stiff springs on both axles.

As a FWD car, no doubt it does suffer from understeer whether or not this affects the OP. That's how most of these cars are from the factory. Yet even if he's not driving the car hard enough to push, a setup that reduces understeer can also make the steering feel more precise and responsive. Certainly the rear sway bar is cheap and easy to swap, to which it owes some of its popularity. However, I did set up one car with both front & rear swaybars, and ended up leaving the front on a soft setting to get the best feel and performance (and lap times). That was a '95 RX-7 I used in SCCA, but one car is not a trend, and every car is unique.

 

[930.engineering]

True, every car is different and you'd have to treat a FWD car different than a RWD. However any non-
modified passenger car is (factory) setup to understeer. Some RWD understeer more than some FWD.
Porsches do understeer, Ferraris do understeer. Of course I can get them oversteer or corner neutrally,
but I can do the same with any FWD car (with different inputs). Less understeer doesn't necessarily
translate to improved steering precision. The opposite is equally true. Get stiffer front springs (as the
OP considered) or a bigger front swaybar and steering will feel better in very most daily scenarios.
I'm not talking about track, as the OP doesn't plan to take this car to the track (at least it doesn't make
much sense with this kind of car). Understeer is not a bad thing. It's what very most drivers are able to
cope with best. Admitted, on most car forums everyone is a talented pro driver.
Anyway, that's not the issue here. If his Honda doesn't even run fairly in a straight line and is getting
upset on every second bump, understeer is the least issue he suffers from. So let's keep this on 'track'.
I would suggest to help the OP making his car run safely and more satisfying. He won't make a sports
car out of it.

 

[meep]

Something not mentioned is if he’s got the original wheels and tires, to make sure his scrub radius is reasonably close to oem. If he’s changed the scrub radius from new offset wheels, that will play as he hits things in the road. Does lowering the vehicle have any *notable* effect in altering S.R.?

m

 

[BigJohn]

Not a little car, but I replaced my OEM springs for heavy-duty springs on the rear of my Ram 1500 and it made a HUGE difference in the 'sway category'. The truck is also... much more planted.

 

[MRC01]

.... If his Honda doesn't even run fairly in a straight line and is getting
upset on every second bump, understeer is the least issue he suffers from. So let's keep this on 'track'.
I would suggest to help the OP making his car run safely and more satisfying. He won't make a sports
car out of it.

Sure, his original complaint was about excessive body roll, so the suggestions to replace the sway bars (from several different people) are on-point. Rear first is pretty standard for improving handling of FWD cars. It's easy to do and usually makes a nice improvement. One step at a time, don't change several things at once.

 

[Jetronic]

Hm.. you may very well be right about this!

I have to say though that after installing this "coilover" kit and lowering the car 1.75 inches, it really has improved a lot---to the point where I consider it a PLAUSIBLE replacement for the rock-solid Corolla. There's a playfulness to it, and I think this platform has some possibilities. I really just want a daily driver that's a little fun. The Corolla was absolutely dependable and solid but lacking in the fun department. The stock suspension really is quite terrible, it took an aftermarket company TEIN to remedy some of it---but I'm thinking I can go further, it needs more improvements.

There's a BILSTEIN B14 kit for it, there's BC Racing BR series coilover for it..

1.75 inches lower is a lot, and too much if you want reduced roll. I bet that putting the car half an inch higher does as much or more than a stiffer spring up front. Once you lower beyond a certain amount, body roll gets incrementally worse. For most mcpherson cars the limit with acceptable roll is 1"lower. Also, you will introduce bump steer, and that will make the car react even more to uneven roads.

Since you have coilovers, try a few different heights and when decided get an alignment done as the toe changes with different heights aswell.

 

[Jetronic]

Something not mentioned is if he’s got the original wheels and tires, to make sure his scrub radius is reasonably close to oem. If he’s changed the scrub radius from new offset wheels, that will play as he hits things in the road. Does lowering the vehicle have any *notable* effect in altering S.R.?

m

Lowering doesn't change scrub radius but it does change the angles of lower control arms and steering links, introducing bump steer issues.

 

[1uz_4me]

Time for a Watt's Link

 

[GR_CoB]

In the Honda CR-V club guys are always going for stiffer springs, and very often a stiff enough spring battles the body roll so good, that many just delete the sway bar. So yes, stiffer springs do remove body roll.