Do hybrids last as long as naturally aspirated engine and do they make sense?

[PandaBear]

Did you miss the link in post# 76?

Yeah I read that. It is a Prius with 400k miles and a Camry with 265k vs a Caddy with 200k.

GF5 in Camry and Caddy looks cleaner than GF4 used in Prius. If anything the conclusion I got is: 1) GF5 is better, 2) they all went pass 200k fine, 3) start stop vehicle needs more frequent oil change, 4) broken ringland is not correlated to hybrid only or mileage (on Camry), 5) "wear on Prius was only slightly worse than for the Cadillac (surprisingly low wear for 400k miles)"

I don't think you can complain much on all of them, how many miles would you consider you get a reliable engine in a hybrid? 400k on a Prius is not good enough? 265k on a camry is not good enough?

 

[JHZR2]

If I was looking at this with theoretical mileage levels that folks like to talk about but rarely achieve themselves, then I’ll start with this…

Why are you getting rid of the Corolla? 250k is pretty lousy in terms of longevity for the simplest econobox out there. So what are we really doing here and what are the actual expectations?

The next thing is that drivetrain isn’t everything. Suspensions fail, rubber bushings fail, air conditioning leaks and fails, etc. That’s regardless of if it’s an ice, hybrid, PHEV, or EV.

I have a number of friends who have crossed 200knin their Prius. I’m closing in on 100k in my accord hybrid.

I suspect that the hybrid battery will still crank the ice and allow operations while degraded, at least to a point… but thing is, if hv components fail, the battery gets bad connections or welds, etc., it will be a liability. So that is worth a consideration…

I suspect most hybrid vehicles will have bodies and subsystems that decompose around the hybrid system.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

At 20k a year with heavy traffic I am pleased with the hybrid. Exceptional trip below ( stopped at dr office and left to work from there)so engine was already warm and there was more traffic later in the morning improving mileage., average is actually 47 as the 46 mile trip normally takes my 49 minutes in the morning and 1:10 after work.
Mpg long term with average trips of 46 miles each way. Traffic and congestion is common, lots of road construction and explosive growth in the area.

 

[mikeduf]

So I've gone through this blog quite extensively and we're doing a lot of blah blah blah blah about how good the hybrid is specifically the RAV4! I own one, can anybody interject on what type of oils they have been using.

 

[supton]

So I've gone through this blog quite extensively and we're doing a lot of blah blah blah blah about how good the hybrid is specifically the RAV4! I own one, can anybody interject on what type of oils they have been using.

I'd start a new thread if you want advice on oil. This thread is all about if hybrids make sense (or something like that) and many might be lowpassing this thread--but might offer advice if they spotted a new thread looking for oil advice.

I don't have a RAV4 hybrid but do have a Camry hybrid (same engine) and just run Mobil 1 0W16 on a 5,000 mile OCI. OEM filter. Wife was sad that I took off the underside cladding as she lost a couple mpg but otherwise, it's 45-50 mpg or something like that, according to the display.

 

[ATex7239]

So I've gone through this blog quite extensively and we're doing a lot of blah blah blah blah about how good the hybrid is specifically the RAV4! I own one, can anybody interject on what type of oils they have been using.

There are soooo many threads on oil for Toyota hybrids. And the Rav4 ICE is shared with several other vehicles. Search function works well.

 

[meep]

The effortless press off the line in the hybrids is … addictive. While braking accuracy takes a little step back, throttle control is mighty fine.

 

[Quattro Pete]

I think most likely the hybrid's engine will last just as long because it is not stressed. The bulk of acceleration is done by battery + electric motor and the cruising would be done by the gas engine. Assuming the rest of the design is the same between the 2 hybrid's gas engine would have the easier life and gas only's engine would be pushed harder.

Hybrids are actually pretty hard on engines due to a lot of stop-start and running at non-optimal operating temperature...




However, as others pointed out earlier, there is more to a car than just the engine. Often times it's other parts/components that wear out before an engine does.

 

[DirectRejection]

I am convinced that driving conditions play a major role.

In driving my 2024 Corolla Cross Hybrid, with the exact same drivetrain as the Prius in this video, I can report no noticeable issues.

It all looks the same as with my parallel 2022 Corolla Cross non hybrid and with my like powered 2019 Lexus UX 250h.

 

[MCompact]

I leased an i3 REx for 24 months and I currently run a PHEV Jeep as my daily. With the exception of my Club Sport I’m usually more than ready for something new by the time a vehicle hits 100k miles; in the case of the Wrangler I plan to keep it for at least 8-10 years but I doubt it will have more than 80k on it by that time. In any case, I’m not losing any sleep over its reliability.

 

[Rmay635703]

Certain hybrids last a very long time but only if you drive a fairly large numbers of miles each year.

Many years of Lexus rx350 (not hybrid) will last 400,000 miles pending a variety of maintenance and repairs assuming it doesn’t rust out.

Financially hybrids rarely make sense because of the states charging hybrid fines and many times insurance charging more to insure.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Certain hybrids last a very long time but only if you drive a fairly large numbers of miles each year.

Many years of Lexus rx350 (not hybrid) will last 400,000 miles pending a variety of maintenance and repairs assuming it doesn’t rust out.

Financially hybrids rarely make sense because of the states charging hybrid fines and many times insurance charging more to insure.

Hybrid fine? Interesting haven’t seen or experienced that. My insurance doesn’t care

 

[Rmay635703]

Hybrid fine? Interesting haven’t seen or experienced that. My insurance doesn’t care

Around here the hybrids annual registration cost is equal to the amount of gas I burn annually and is a plug in fee that they also charge to hybrids.

My liability is near $3k annual , hybrid insurance is the bulk of the cost, the old stick gasser doesn’t add much cost.

My insurance costs more than my car is worth.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Around here the hybrids annual registration cost is equal to the amount of gas I burn annually and is a plug in fee that they also charge to hybrids.

My liability is near $3k annual , hybrid insurance is the bulk of the cost, the old stick gasser doesn’t add much cost.

My insurance costs more than my car is worth.

My registration is 70 bucks a year but it won’t need a renewal this year as new vehicles don’t need renewal until the second year and every year after. My full coverage insurance through USAA with commercial umbrella is about 100 bucks a month. LITTLE OVER 200 for two vehicles. ( 2023 Corolla cross hybrid and 2018 Tacoma 4x4)
Of course you dont have Texas property taxes on your home so there is that.

Who put those extra fees in place? Sounds bad.

 

[nobb]

The problem with hybrids is that the battery naturally degrades from calendar aging in addition to cyclic use. Ni-MH is actually more robust than Li-Ion and I believe that's why some modern hybrids still use this. The people who claim their Priuses are still good after 20 years is because they have Ni-MH batteries. But if it's Li-Ion, the battery is likely to have noticeable degradation after the 10 - 15 year point. Hybrids also do not like to sit in storage for extended periods of time because you do need to keep the battery from being too discharged.

I think PHEVs are going to wear out their batteries even sooner. Reason being they are cycling their smaller batteries to a further extent regularly compared to a full EV battery. EV owners can more easily keep their batteries in that sweet spot range of 30 - 70% charge which greatly extends the lifespan vs if you were regularly going from 0 - 100%.

 

[GenSan]

There's a medical courier who put 460+, 000 miles in short order as a Medical Courier on a Rav4 Hybrid. Oil change at dealer was on the clock at the dealer every 10k miles. He sold it to a Toyota dealer and still got $15k to put on a Corolla GR.

 

[CKN]

Welcome to the forum. Hybrids are very good, but lets face it ICE only vehicles have been around a lot longer and millions upon millions of them have lasted 15-20 years or more w/o major repairs. Not as much data to back up Hybrids, yet. Me, I'd go ICE and not look back. $6K for a battery plus the additional upfront cost of the vehicle buys a lot of gas. Opinions vary. Flame suit on.

Haven't they used Prius in the New York taxi fleet? And we know what conditions they are used under.....

 

[Ws6]

Still amazes me that with all the retired rich professionals hanging out here, that they can't afford a new/newer car after 8-12 years, just befuddles me. The last thing I want to do is drive a car with 200,000 plus miles on it. IMO YMMV

So, I fall into the camp of enjoying a new vehicle every 6-18mo or so, but I am trying hard to curb that. I've now had my EV6 GT for 18mo, and have no desire to change. Anyway...

I was over at my grandparent's house a few years back, when my grandpa asked me "How would you like to ride in a $350K car when we go out to lunch today?" I had always known them to be frugal, but also knew they had the money to buy whatever they wanted, and were in their 80s, and wondered what on earth the man had done. I amiably agreed. Anyway, a few hours pass, and it is lunch time, so we head downstairs to the garage. Parked there, is his E250 type work van, and a 2002 Camry, and a 2012? Avalon. The garage takes up the whole ground floor, super cool house, anyway, he hits the remote and the Camry springs to life with doors unlocking. I get in after holding the door for my grandmother, and we drive out of the garage. He engages me: "This is it. The $350K car." I asked him how he arrived at its value. He told me: "Simple. There is a man who lives down the road. We're good friends, and I've known him for 20+ years. He buys/finances a new truck every year or two, and has told me roughly what he pays and gets on trade, etc. This car has 349K miles on it, and I have had it for 20 years, now. I just put $1500 into the suspension. Rides good? AC cold? Starts fine? (I answer yes to all of the above, because it actually DID. I wasn't humoring him, the car rode fine and aside from being a little louder than a "modern" model due to lack of laminated windows, etc, it really was "just fine".) Anyway, this car owes me nothing, and factoring all this in, I'd say it's saved me about $350K over those 20 years that I didn't trade it every year or two."

He never once spoke to me about my automotive habits, but what he had to say has stuck with me, and I am intending to keep my EV6 GT until it becomes a financial liability. Yes, it's more than he'd have ever spent, etc. but we all have our flaws. Maybe the above story can help you understand why many affluent people here are happy driving "old cars". It helped me "get it". Especially when another friend of mine sent me a balance to one of his mutual fund accounts. It stands at a hair under $2M. He put $10K into it in the 1980's and forgot about it. $350K over 20 years can do things...

 

[demarpaint]

Haven't they used Prius in the New York taxi fleet? And we know what conditions they are used under.....

They're working OK. The fact remains we still have more data on ICE, but for Taxi use a Hybrid seems to be a step in the right direction! And FTR that wasn't the OPs question.

 

[Brons2]

Certain hybrids last a very long time but only if you drive a fairly large numbers of miles each year.

Many years of Lexus rx350 (not hybrid) will last 400,000 miles pending a variety of maintenance and repairs assuming it doesn’t rust out.

Financially hybrids rarely make sense because of the states charging hybrid fines and many times insurance charging more to insure.

This is not a fine. It is the equivalent of a gas tax, because hybrids and EVs use less/no gas and therefore pay less/no gas taxes. The additional registration fee is $200 here in Texas, FWIW.

Also FWIW, I drive my Navigator about 7500 miles a year and at 14 mpg that is $99 in state gas taxes paid. If I drove 15,000 miles a year it would be about equal to the EV fee in gas taxes.