When I had more client work in NYC, I regularly used the taxis there. Most of them were Toyota hybrids. Many with north of 300k miles. When I asked the drivers if they had problems with them, the answer was generally "no" with the exception of normal maintenance - tires, brakes, oil changes, etc. After those interactions, I learned to put aside my skepticism of hybrid reliability. Plus if the battery becomes less effective over time, the car still runs, it just runs more on gas, but it will still use the battery. So I wouldn't overthink the reliability issue. The real cost issue is if they are still selling over MSRP and what that cost differential is compared to the gasoline version. If you drive enough, it can still be worthwhile but something you have to figure out. Not sure if you want it, but you might also check out the Camry. The new ones are hybrid only and since everyone wants an SUV, you might do a little better on the pricing. Good luck.
Do hybrids last as long as naturally aspirated engine and do they make sense?
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And is more roomy. The Rav4 is a little tight if you're big like me.
I own a 2022 Rav ICE. The engine isn't buzzy or gutless ( 203hp). Look at the 0-60 times compared to other SUV's in that size,it's quicker. As far as buzzy,I had a 2019 Camry and that one made way more noise than my Rav.I think they solved whatever was the issue.Btw, I get 40 mpg highway and 33 city. Do you personally own a newer Rav as I do?
Had the opportunity to rent both versions for a few days each. Hybrid is quieter and quicker. Rented from same place going from 2023 hybrid to 2023 ICE same week and it was noticeable difference.
All hybrids are quicker than gassers,i'm comparing apples to apples. The Rav gas is quicker than most if not all others in its class.
None of my statement covered other vehicles just a very noticeable difference between driveline options.
We own a ‘24. I love the car. It’s my wife’s. It truly out-handles its class with the hybrid drivetrain. I would not call it buzzy, but it’s close. When it was new I’d describe it closer to “rowdy.” To my ear it is ever so slightly more elegant to the ear on premium. At 41mpg premium cost is “who cares.” Still, it’s not too proud to make some noise when you get on it, while also being rewarded with immediate, very nicely modulated acceleration. At highway cruise the engine is inaudible.
They became rich by not wasting money.
The guys I know who have money generally don’t want to look like they do.
I just met an orthopedic surgeon in a successful practice last month in his 50s. Drives a late model ranger with cloth seats.
I know a guy who at one point had 120 people working for him. He’s driven used Yukons until they break down too frequently to count on. Then he seeks out another used one. He always has a spare vehicle to rely on.
“The millionaire next door” has come under fire for questionable science, but it’s been a popular book generally since the 90s. If I recall, a basic standard cab F150 was the most popular truck driven by self-made millionaires. Back in the 90’s, trucks were not status vehicles as they later became. Vans were big, sports cars were big, and SUVs were emerging. If I recall, the takeaway was that the wealthy were not focused on “things,” like cars as much as they were focused on relationship and purpose. Cars were tools and treated practically as such. My mom read the book and cited it on occasion. As a car guy, I found it frustrating. Guess I didn’t have good wealth habits! What else… wealthy drove the older car they liked and hung on to, pay for repairs as they came up until a little beyond practical. Honda and Toyota were considered more middle and upper middle tier in wealth, but not the pack leader. Lower income often were forced to buy newer vehicles rather than pay for large repairs outside of warranty, often following poor maintenance, incurring rolling debt.
I’m sure the statistics have changed - I’ve had too many of my own recurrences of realizing I know nothing at all, to try to figure out cultural categorization of others!
I just met an orthopedic surgeon in a successful practice last month in his 50s. Drives a late model ranger with cloth seats.
I know a guy who at one point had 120 people working for him. He’s driven used Yukons until they break down too frequently to count on. Then he seeks out another used one. He always has a spare vehicle to rely on.
“The millionaire next door” has come under fire for questionable science, but it’s been a popular book generally since the 90s. If I recall, a basic standard cab F150 was the most popular truck driven by self-made millionaires. Back in the 90’s, trucks were not status vehicles as they later became. Vans were big, sports cars were big, and SUVs were emerging. If I recall, the takeaway was that the wealthy were not focused on “things,” like cars as much as they were focused on relationship and purpose. Cars were tools and treated practically as such. My mom read the book and cited it on occasion. As a car guy, I found it frustrating. Guess I didn’t have good wealth habits! What else… wealthy drove the older car they liked and hung on to, pay for repairs as they came up until a little beyond practical. Honda and Toyota were considered more middle and upper middle tier in wealth, but not the pack leader. Lower income often were forced to buy newer vehicles rather than pay for large repairs outside of warranty, often following poor maintenance, incurring rolling debt.
I’m sure the statistics have changed - I’ve had too many of my own recurrences of realizing I know nothing at all, to try to figure out cultural categorization of others!
Here is my take.
Cab and currier companies use hybrids in their fleets. They rack up the miles in harsh environments. If I get 10+ years of service out of my Toyota hybrid without major repairs, I'm way ahead from a cost perspective. I paid $32k OTD for mine. The identical gas model was 3k less in cost. Over the past 29k miles, we've averaged 52.8 MPG. The math works in my favor. I hope to pass this vehicle down to my 9 year old when she's of driving age.
I know people within my life circle that have 300k+ miles on their Prius'.
Cab and currier companies use hybrids in their fleets. They rack up the miles in harsh environments. If I get 10+ years of service out of my Toyota hybrid without major repairs, I'm way ahead from a cost perspective. I paid $32k OTD for mine. The identical gas model was 3k less in cost. Over the past 29k miles, we've averaged 52.8 MPG. The math works in my favor. I hope to pass this vehicle down to my 9 year old when she's of driving age.
I know people within my life circle that have 300k+ miles on their Prius'.
Hermann
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I like frugal
I think most likely the hybrid's engine will last just as long because it is not stressed. The bulk of acceleration is done by battery + electric motor and the cruising would be done by the gas engine. Assuming the rest of the design is the same between the 2 hybrid's gas engine would have the easier life and gas only's engine would be pushed harder.
Battery wise I would factor in about 15 years 200k miles worth of life out of it. If you drive 20k a year you will make that $6k replacement cost back easily. Plus I like the hybrid better. I can use the AC without idling the engine, only kick it back on when the battery runs low automatically. In traffic it is a much less stressful ride with hybrid than gas only.
Battery wise I would factor in about 15 years 200k miles worth of life out of it. If you drive 20k a year you will make that $6k replacement cost back easily. Plus I like the hybrid better. I can use the AC without idling the engine, only kick it back on when the battery runs low automatically. In traffic it is a much less stressful ride with hybrid than gas only.
Not quite. Check this out:
https://www.api.org/~/media/files/c...id-electric-vehicles-dclarke-infineum-usa.pdf
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I occasionally see 1st gen Prius’ and both gen 1 & 2 Honda insight.
I used to think that is how hybrids worked, but I really think in my 3rd gen Prius, the battery assist during acceleration is pretty minor (for this reason, it doesn't have a problem with draining on hills).
I believe most of the gas savings in the Prius (mine at least) comes from shutting the engine off at low and zero load, and from regenerative braking.
Anyway... to discuss the topic of the thread, my experience with a Prius is that the battery may get the most attention, but it's not as big of a deal as some may think - right now, I can buy a new Prius battery from a Toyota dealer for $1500 plus core and installation.
The 3rd gen Prius has a huge problem with head gaskets blowing and this is a fairly expensive repair. It's not clear why they have this issue. Other costly possible issues are the inverter and brake actuator - these are both hybrid-specific. But they don't seem to be as common as head gaskets in this gen.
My son's 2nd gen doesn't have the HG issues. But he had a failed evaporator core, which would have been an extremely expensive fix (we DIYed it).
You are right. The 3rd gen HG seems to be something very unusual but not sure if it is hybrid specific. There's always a model specific engine reliability risk in all vehicles but in general hybrid isn't going to be worse than gas car for any fundamental reason. Same for inverter and brake actuator being an additional risk, but seems to be a "background noise" when compare to other higher probability problems.
My Corolla and Integra also had evaporator problems as well for some reason and we DIY it then ask a mechanic to charge it up.
My driving profile's gas saving from Prius seem to come from downsizing engine + CVT. The engine is almost always on for highway and likely run at the most efficient rpm and still gets me 40mpg. I'm pretty confident the bulk of acceleration came from the electric motor because typically a vehicle like mine (Prius V) would need a 2.5L yet we get a 1.8L atkinson (so it is more like a 1.4L Carnot) and the size is mainly for the acceleration. A Rav4 or Sienna hybrid with 2.5L atkinson gets like 33-34mpg.
Did you miss the link in post# 76?
