Do hybrids last as long as naturally aspirated engine and do they make sense?

[The Critic]

Other than a weak battery assist, does the vehicle operate like a conventional ICE?

The two power trains are very “blended,” especially in the latest generations. My in-law’s RX350h uses the electric powertrain a lot more than my Prius, even on the highway.

 

[Dave Hess]

Welcome to the forum. Hybrids are very good, but lets face it ICE only vehicles have been around a lot longer and millions upon millions of them have lasted 15-20 years or more w/o major repairs. Not as much data to back up Hybrids, yet. Me, I'd go ICE and not look back. $6K for a battery plus the additional upfront cost of the vehicle buys a lot of gas. Opinions vary. Flame suit on.

You are 1000000% correct with everything you posted.

 

[fdcg27]

I take exception with the poster who continually writes that "Toyota makes the best hybrids" since this is a silly fanboy statement.
I'm very happy with my Accord hybrid and I do see lots of brag-worthy tank fuel calculations.
However, given the price premium for the hybrid versus the price of fuel, the savings are not nearly as magical as 50+ mpg might seem.
I'd buy another, but anyone looking seriously should also seriously look at the math in terms of the marginal cost versus the marginal savings in fuel costs. Yeah, the brakes will last about forever, but they've also been fairly cheap and easy to DIY in the driveway about forever on most anything.
Unless you do a lot of miles, a hybrid makes no economic sense.

 

[skyactiv]

The RAV4 Prime scoots 0-60 in 5.7 seconds according to Toyota.

One thing hybrids, plus-in hybrids and EV's seem more sensitive about is replacement tires. This isn't a 0W20 vs 5W30 couple of 1/10's of 1 MPG lost, tires can be miles per gallon lost or in the case of an EV, several miles of range can be lost.

 

[THORROMIG]

The Rav4 Hybrid 2.5L is not meant for high performance. Its made for economy and hopefully safety. I can drive my 2023 Rav4 Hybrid in signature in sport mode all day in the summer time with the air conditioning blasting and still easily average 46 to 48 MPGs. Rides really really nice and the soundsystem is sweet also. The more I drive it --- the more I like it.

 

[Hermann]

Keep in mind the highway mpg for the Maverick are hindered by the 8.5" of ground clearance and the "Barndoor Aerodynamics Package". Also keep in mind that the number will be 2 mpg or so lower for Dec thru March.

BTW, savings vs my 2018 F-150 is $1900 in fuel savings in 2 1/2 years.

Fwiw, I own a new hybrid CRV. Like the car a lot and believe it’s a better driving experience than the ICE only version. And of course there’s the “virtue signaling” benefit. But after looking under the hood and seeing the complexity (heck, I can’t even identify some of the stuff), I bought a Honda 8/100k full vehicle extended warranty. Actual Honda warranty for about $1k. If that makes my ownership period = the warranty period I’m okay with that.

I have a 8yr/100K with 0 dedectible like you. Just a A/C issue will can cost a person what they paid.

If you are retired and don't need to get to work, reliability is less of an issue.
If you are retired, you have plenty of time to fix your car.

My hybrid has been super reliable. jUst recalls. I hate going to the dealer. Just don't buy someone elses problems. Buy new or CPO

 

[Hermann]

The RAV4 Prime scoots 0-60 in 5.7 seconds according to Toyota.

One thing hybrids, plus-in hybrids and EV's seem more sensitive about is replacement tires. This isn't a 0W20 vs 5W30 couple of 1/10's of 1 MPG lost, tires can be miles per gallon lost or in the case of an EV, several miles of range can be lost.

When I bought my Conti LX-25's they were rated as Eco. I have lost maybe a 1/2 MPG on average compared to the OEM rocks.

 

[eljefino]

I got a 2nd gen prius with 237k for $750 that needed "a whole battery" per the seller but just needed a module that was $35 on ebay. Took it to 302k miles and sold it for more than I paid. Fixing the battery was a breeze as mechanic work goes as everything was inside the passenger compartment and as rust-free as the day it was made. I just needed a slightly better scan tool than the mechanic who condemned the "entire battery" to read individual module voltages and codes. Toyota's Techstream, available with a cable for $20 on ebay with dubious software licensing, does this.

I'm not familiar with the RAV4 hybrid powertrain but haven't heard much for complaints so I assume it's solid.

Any car is going to be more complicated than your corolla, aside from another corolla. The RAV is as solid a choice as any. Best thing for you and saving money is learning more about them and upgrading your diagnostic tools.

Any car with a precision MPG (or battery mileage) meter will show the benefit of LRR tires. It's just a Prius is so slippery aerodynamically that tire friction is a greater percentage of MPG influence.

 

[meep]

OP’s original question specifically mentioned the engine wear from frequent start-stop. I’ve wondered about this as well. We all mostly dislike AS/S. The hybrids are doing it constantly. In fords, bmws, Audis, and others, we look at the plastic chain guides and then snap are heads over to stare at the AS/S button, while the hybrids cycle the engine 20 times on the way to buy milk.

As I ponder the pursuit of the perfect 2015 RX-h, it’s a good question.

The only thought I have to the OP’s concern here is, “data.” I do not recall a single post on this forum about shredded timing guides in a Prius. Therefore, engine would not be my worry.

Complex brakes (one Rx-h I looked at failed the test drive because the brake system made strange noises in transition), battery life (if buying at my mileage, 80k+), and complexity are probably increasing factors. Also, drive cycle - if OP does a lot of highway, benefits are diminished. If OP is couriering in a city, hybrid will have quicker returns.

I’ll echo this - rav4-h drives wonderfully. It’s a great “lawn dart.” Point and go, incredible launch torque. Respectable on the road. No, it won’t astound you with 0-60 but it does give a significant sense of control for precision merging and vehicle control.

I’d really like to pick up a hybrid as a DD. Keep looking for the right one (used). Toyota is the only one I’ll consider. And again, the timing chain on that 4cyl looks kinda like an RC car, but the data does not have the engines suffering here.

 

[Cheetah-kins]

I would not buy in other brand for a hybrid besides Toyota.

I feel the same way. I don't own one but Toyota seems to have been at it the longest with their Prius which seems to really do a great job of being both ICE and electric without a bunch of weird issues. I wondered when they originally came out how well they would last and how well the drivetrain would function in general, but I've known several people that have them long term and they seem very pleased. I don't really like the Prius personally, but I do think it's worth buying as a hybrid/car. Hopefully Toyota has the same success with it's other hybrids.

 

[eljefino]

They do something different with the rod bearings (and probably other parts) on the start-stop engines like the Prius. There's a similar 1.5L engine they put in Scions that uses a different part number.

I'd rather have the "Prius transmission" with its "seven moving parts" over pretty much anything else made these days in a conventional power train.

 

[The Critic]

They do something different with the rod bearings (and probably other parts) on the start-stop engines like the Prius. There's a similar 1.5L engine they put in Scions that uses a different part number.

"Glyco IROX® & IROX2® polymer-coated bearing shells address the lubrication challenges associated with heavily boosted engines and with the frequent engine restarts, typical for hybrids and start-stop powertrains. In the most demanding applications, IROX® & IROX2® polymer-coated bearings can help increase the life of crankshaft and bearing shells by more than five times. IROX® & IROX2® technology may also reduce friction by up to 50% compared to conventional bearings, potentially cutting CO2 emissions, improving fuel economy, and releasing more power."

https://www.drivparts.com/en-eu/brands/glyco.html

 

[Cheetah-kins]

The batteries will need replacing at some point, sure. However non-hybrids tend to have more transmission issues at high mileage so to me that is kind of a wash on risk. I’ve gotten rid of plenty of high mileage vehicles due to transmission repair cost. Suspension work could also send a vehicle to the junkyard prematurely. I don’t see the batteries being any different in that regard.

^I agree with this. Whenever I hear someone say they're worried about having to replace a hybrid battery down the road - which will likely be very high miles - I always think, yeah but at those miles LOTS of typical and expensive ICE car failures are very common, too. Once you really get up in miles you WILL be replacing things, no way around that even on fairly reliable vehicles. I've taken multiple vehicles to over 300K miles or close to it and as reliable as they all were, all had a few pretty costly repairs after 230-250K miles. All vehicles are designed with a finite life on their systems and parts and even driving carefully and with good maintenance, it will eventually not be enough.

I guess what I'm saying is, while I don't own a hybrid, it's not because I'm worried one day I'll have to replace it's battery.

 

[Oliveoil2]

You’re just starting to make owning a car less expensive. Drive the Corolla Past 500k! It never makes sense buying a new car to save money.

 

[ATex7239]

You’re just starting to make owning a car less expensive. Drive the Corolla Past 500k! It never makes sense buying a new car to save money.

Buying a new vehicle very rarely costs less than continuing to drive an older one. If the OP replaced the entire powertrain in the Corolla it would still likely cost less than a new R4 hybrid. Sometimes it is not about the money per se but about getting something you want and the quality of life that comes with it.

 

[CMX]

Sorry, still waking up, missed that in the OP.

20k per year, just for work? more like, at least 25k/year? but 15 to 20 years desired? So you would like 300 to 500k, no?

300k is the new 200k but that is a long time to plan for. I only took one car past 300k and the rust was setting in. Accidents took out the next two that I was hoping to cross 300k in. The current batch of vehicles, not sure I have any desire to take to 300k, too much else going on in life at the moment.

I have more than one car.

 

[CMX]

Buying a new vehicle very rarely costs less than continuing to drive an older one. If the OP replaced the entire powertrain in the Corolla it would still likely cost less than a new R4 hybrid. Sometimes it is not about the money per se but about getting something you want and the quality of life that comes with it.

I agree, i want a rav4 because i can pay cash for it, i am tired of sitting on the ground in the corolla, the corolla is also a base model as i am older now i do like the heated seats etc.

But yeah you are never better off buying a new car financially speaking. I know lots of people that buy a new car every 5-7 years and they are always making payments and are always broke.

You are much better off paying cash for one and not paying any interest fees, i put $300 a way a month for 15 years in a HYS account. It has 60k in it now.

 

[ATex7239]

I agree, i want a rav4 because i can pay cash for it, i am tired of sitting on the ground in the corolla, the corolla is also a base model as i am older now i do like the heated seats etc.

But yeah you are never better off buying a new car financially speaking. I know lots of people that buy a new car every 5-7 years and they are always making payments and are always broke.

You are much better off paying cash for one and not paying any interest fees, i put $300 a way a month for 15 years in a HYS account. It has 60k in it now.

It is OK to enjoy your money a bit and be comfortable while going about life. Money is a means to an end. It is a resource which is gathered and used as a tool to accomplish things rather than simply being collected as an end all unto itself.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

I'm looking to replace a high milage gas only corolla that has been a great car with no issues at all and at 252,000 miles i am looking to replace it.

I wanted to get a RAV4 gas only model but everyone says to get the hybrid model since i drive a lot of miles 20,000 a year to work alone. I rented a RAV4 hybrid and it feels totally different than a normal gas car what i notice most is on acceleration how the electric motor runs then it switches over to the gas motor and also when you stop it sounds like a generator of sorts.

My concern is how long will a engine last on the hybrid? With it constantly turning on and off it seems like it would wear the engine out since most wear and tear comes from starting the engine. I also need it to last 15-20 years as the corolla has done with no issues. I get that a hybrid has no starter and belts to wear out but my corolla still has the original starter.

I talked to the dealer about this and he said that it will cost $6,000 to replace the battery but it will more than likely be more than that as everything gets more expensive. He was telling me that most people don't get the battery replaced they just buy a new car.

That gets me to my next concern, i would save money on gas over the years but all the gas savings would be wiped out when it comes time to replace the battery so i am not really saving anything.

I don't know what to do..

I got 45-47 MPG on the rented RAV4 Hybrid EV driving ratio is 50+ percent.
I get 33-35 MPG on The corolla

My main concern is how long will the hybrid last.

The main thing is driving dynamic to me. I also commute nearly 100 miles a day. The Hybrid is a better drive. Making those miles more pleasurable and relaxing.

 

[dtownfb]

If you drive 20k+ miles, you'd be foolish NOT to get a hybrid. If you lived thta long with a regular Corolla, the new Corolla Hybrids will blow you away. Plus you'll get 50% better fuel economy. Toyota has 20+ years with hybrid technology. I wouldn't worry about the battery failing. Look at Toyota hybrid forum and see how many owners are having trouble with their batteries. It's probably fewer than you think. Plus in 10-15 years, there will be places other than the dealership to replace the batteries.

There's a reason the Sienna and now Camry are all hybrids.