Do airlines even want to sell flights?

[JHZR2]

The obnoxious flights being offered are crazy. Nothing I’ve seen before.

And before blaming the usual for it, which is surely what the companies will (they love making excuses for things not in the favor of customers, but that really are profit motivated), this is really more common sense than anything.

The primary case in point is the massive inclusion of overnight flights. Like more or less every option is some obnoxious 12-17 hour flight to go between benign places that are hubs. Like PHL-DFW as an example. Sure there are a few nonstops, but they don’t even get shown until you dig for them.

Same for going to the Caribbean. The first few flights offered have overnights in different places, the. Ext few are $10k flights, then there are flights with many options, etc.

And these are the “recommended” flights being offered by the airline (we primarily fly American). Before any listing or ranking or indication of preference.

Every flight we’ve bought in the last many months has been an obnoxious process.

Here’s a random example. No preferences or ordering set.

These are really the best flights they have to offer? It used to be a rarity to see anything where the airline expected you to live in an airport overnight… had to actually look for it.

Is anyone else seeing this? No longer limited to “hacker” fares and websites parsing these things together. It’s the airlines that are pushing ridiculous flights as their primary offers. While other better options you would expect are ranked far lower, hidden until you set the order and preferences, etc.

More than once we’ve looked at prices (long before the current Ukraine issues), and asked if American even wants to fly anymore.

I’ve had status on airlines for the last 20 years almost. Same for hotels. I travel a good deal for work and personally. I’m not a bozo who doesn’t know how to use a website or set preferences. And we’ve tried on different computers, browsers, locations, etc.

Anyone else noticing this?

 

[ATex7239]

Remember when they first instituted the bag fees during the ‘08 recession and said it was supposed to be “temporary.” Still waiting on that. And don’t forget the “we’re in this together” campaigns during the lockdowns… except if that checked bag is 2lbs over then you’re on your own.

 

[wpod]

Deregulating the airlines and the trucking industry was a huge mistake.

 

[JHZR2]

Deregulating the airlines and the trucking industry was a huge mistake.

I don’t know, can’t really say. My impression was that flights got much cheaper when deregulated.

but this is more like common sense than anything. They push these ridiculous obnoxious flights first and then you dig for the better ones. Some decent flights are there (less than before), but they used to always be shown upfront, like a short, cheap flight was a competitive advantage. Now so often the first few flights are wacky. Looking for a flight to dfw it had to be the first ten had some ridiculous overnight in some two bit airport like Nashville or birmingham. Between two hubs! And don’t get me wrong, I much prefer the smaller airports… Monterey CA may well be my favorite… but I don’t want to take my family on flights that require an overnight in an airport. Common sense shoukd dictate this.

And I really had to look for wacky long flights before maybe six months ago… now they are prevalent!

 

[Spector]

Deregulating the airlines and the trucking industry was a huge mistake.

I agree 100%. Known pricing, not changing every day, better service, better seating. De regulation just became what is best for the bottom line not the customer!

 

[atikovi]

Stop looking for round trip and search each way. Spirit one stop for $132 or American nonstop $366.

6:56 AM – 3:23 PM
Spirit
8 hr 27 min
PHL–STT
1 stop
3 hr FLL



$132

8:00 AM – 11:52 AM
American
3 hr 52 min
PHL–STT
Nonstop


$366

 

[MNgopher]

A couple of thoughts...

The biggest differences I am noticing in booking right now is that airlines are not offering anywhere near as many flights as they did pre-pandemic, but that demand is starting to exceed the capacity they are offering. In short, the response to demand is not keeping pace with the increase in demand. Airlines themselves report offering around 15% less flights than they did pre-pandemic at this point.

The net result is finding less options to get where I want to go, and an increase in the number of weird routings or timings to get there as a result.

Whether they show up first or last, I don't care so long as can sort them to get the selections I need. Inevitably, the airlines needs are not my needs. And I don't need a travel agent or calling the airline to get it booked.

So in recent times, have I seen more oddball routings? Yes. But I also have less options to begin with - routes where airlines had 5 or 6 options before, now have maybe 3 or 4 options.

And anyone wishing for the days or regulated airlines must have forgotten what flying cost then versus now, and how common flying was then versus now. In my case, I play less in actual dollars to fly between my two primary cities today than I did 30 years ago. And that is before factoring in inflation, and still after deregulating airlines. Allowing airlines to compete for consumer dollars means I can choose the cost and level of service I want - and means I fly a lot more than I would have in the regulated days...

 

[JHZR2]

Stop looking for round trip and search each way. Spirit one stop for $132 or American nonstop $366.

6:56 AM – 3:23 PM
Spirit
8 hr 27 min
PHL–STT
1 stop
3 hr FLL



$132

8:00 AM – 11:52 AM
American
3 hr 52 min
PHL–STT
Nonstop


$366

Thanks. That was just an example, and I’ve found the flights I’ve been looking to book as of late.

It’s just how they’ve been portrayed and the absolutely ridiculous junk options also given in large numbers.

 

[tbm5690]

Sounds like you need to use a better search tool to input your parameters, like Google flights.

 

[JHZR2]

Sounds like you need to use a better search tool to input your parameters, like Google flights.

I search with American for American flights. This is what the airline is offering. That’s what makes it ridiculous. I’d expect this as a kayak “hacker fare” or something. Not direct from the airline.

 

[tbm5690]

I search with American for American flights. This is what the airline is offering. That’s what makes it ridiculous. I’d expect this as a kayak “hacker fare” or something. Not direct from the airline.

Right but with other tools you can view by lowest fare across carriers and specify how many connections you want (or none), no overnights, etc. to eliminate those from populating all together. Then just go to the carrier's site and punch in your flight number you already chose with the search tool if you still want to book straight through the carrier.

 

[MNgopher]

I often use another tool besides the airline direct to figure out where I want to book. I often use Kayak, and then book directly with the carrier. Exception being southwest... Then I just go look.

 

[CharlesInCharge]

I've traveled more than most people I know. Flown a lot. Been to 5 continents, crossed most continents and nations, and oceans, etc. But not much in the last few years, thankfully, as life slowed down a lot for me. Off the hamster wheel.

I remember my first commercial international flight, from US to Europe on British Airways, mid 1990s. Family walked me to the gate. Got on an overnight flight, and recall it being mostly empty. I know I was treated to excellent service, was allowed to move around to various open seats to get different views, etc. Nice cozy blanket I think I was allowed to keep, and a good beef meal. Plenty of legroom which I appreciated as an athletic tall young man over 6 feet tall.

Fast forward, last times I flew circa 5-8 years ago, it felt like I was a prisoner inmate without amenities on a cattle car going to slaughter. Treated like a criminal, practically strip searched, facial recognition scans, background checks, long lines, etc. Terrible overcrowded flights filled with disgruntled unhappy people and their insufferable 15 kids they felt necessary to drag along to make everyone on the flight just as miserable or worse, as if that was possible... added fees for everything, bags, food, drinks, you name it. Oh, and the last time I purchased "trip insurance" and had to legitimately cancel I was denied a refund on some fine print technicality. That really ticked me off to the point of swearing off that particular airline and ticketing service. I've had bags lost, contents damaged when located, bags clearly opened and rifled through, etc. It's all very invasive.

It's no surprise service has gotten worse and worse. I can only imagine it's 10x worse since Covid. I doubt I'll fly again. There's very few places I care enough to visit to put up with the costs and hassles. The industry is a disaster. I refuse to fly. And with the now rampant global proliferation of anti-aircraft missile systems, I'm not inclined to travel internationally AT ALL on an aircraft.

 

[97prizm]

Deregulating the airlines and the trucking industry was a huge mistake.

Wrong! You should take an aviation history class or two. Air fares are at their lowest even with inflation. If you want regulated airlines by all means, air Italia, Aeroflot, and others await your patronage. Under CAB regulation, investment and operating decisions were highly constrained. CAB rules limiting routes and entry and controlling prices meant that airlines were limited to competing only on food, cabin crew quality, and frequency. As a result, both prices and frequency were high, and load factors—the percentage of the seats that were filled—were low. Indeed, in the early 1970s load factors were only about 50 percent.
You want this again?

 

[Astro14]

The real cost of fares is about 1/10th of what it was when they were regulated.

Consumers have benefited.

Air travel has become commoditized, and everyone can afford to fly places.

This thread title should be, “Why is American so screwed up?”.

The short answer: they were run by the clown who tried to merge USAir and American, even though he never finished the USAir/America West.

Data systems, technology, employee groups, parts supplies, processes and procedures are still Balkanized and disjointed. Many of American’s top execs have left. American permanently retired over 200 aircraft at the beginning of the pandemic, leaving it with several thousand pilots on payroll without aircraft they are qualified to fly. Their training capacity hasn’t caught up to demand, so they’re still short pilots who are trained for the aircraft they kept.

A hot mess of an airline all around.

 

[wpod]

"The real cost of fares is about 1/10th of what it was when they were regulated." It seems everything about the airlines was better when the airlines were regulated. The airlines need some Fat around the middle to operate. [ not only pilot but maintenance and other personnel training, retention etc as the airline industry is a highly skilled industry ]
I have to add the same with the trucking industry.

 

[Dave Hess]

The real cost of fares is about 1/10th of what it was when they were regulated.

Consumers have benefited.

Air travel has become commoditized, and everyone can afford to fly places.

This thread title should be, “Why is American so screwed up?”.

The short answer: they were run by the clown who tried to merge USAir and American, even though he never finished the USAir/America West.

Data systems, technology, employee groups, parts supplies, processes and procedures are still Balkanized and disjointed. Many of American’s top execs have left. American permanently retired over 200 aircraft at the beginning of the pandemic, leaving it with several thousand pilots on payroll without aircraft they are qualified to fly. Their training capacity hasn’t caught up to demand, so they’re still short pilots who are trained for the aircraft they kept.

A hot mess of an airline all around.

My first thought when AA retired the 757, 767, MD88 and A330 is that when air travel picks up it’s going to be very time consuming to retrain all those pilots into other aircraft.

 

[Astro14]

My first thought when AA retired the 757, 767, MD88 and A330 is that when air travel picks up it’s going to be very time consuming to retrain all those pilots into other aircraft.

The leadership team at American did not think air travel would recover in the near term.

Clearly, they were in error.

I realize it sounds like I’m bashing the competition. But I’m not alone in my estimate.

Ask their employees. Ask anyone working at Delta, or Southwest, who they think is running a good airline.

I’ve got folding money that not one of them says, “American”.

 

[JHZR2]

The real cost of fares is about 1/10th of what it was when they were regulated.

Consumers have benefited.

Air travel has become commoditized, and everyone can afford to fly places.

This thread title should be, “Why is American so screwed up?”.

The short answer: they were run by the clown who tried to merge USAir and American, even though he never finished the USAir/America West.

Data systems, technology, employee groups, parts supplies, processes and procedures are still Balkanized and disjointed. Many of American’s top execs have left. American permanently retired over 200 aircraft at the beginning of the pandemic, leaving it with several thousand pilots on payroll without aircraft they are qualified to fly. Their training capacity hasn’t caught up to demand, so they’re still short pilots who are trained for the aircraft they kept.

A hot mess of an airline all around.

Sounds like that answers my wife any my question of “does American really want to sell flights?!?”

that would be no..

 

[Doc8404]

Just booked three tickets SYR to MIA, round trip.,
One stop, $2000 with three bags.