DIY auto repair means not having to deal with obnoxious auto repair shop prices

[JeffKeryk]

Can you imagine if people did this in the world of IT?

We paid $800k for a system and it doesn’t work. What is amazing is a PM at our co said who is responsible for following up and making sure this stuff works? Crickets. The co told us we are out of support hours, so someone said but it doesn’t even work, and now we need to pay more?

What may or may not be shocking is the co. Is German and there was always 1 person that could fix anything, one. He told us I have fires at cos way larger than yours so I would appreciate it if you give me some context rather than rely upon my memory to know what issue you’re having

Where I’m going is if “the book”
Says 3.5 hours to do the plugs, then a shop
Is justified in charging it. If the tech can do it in 1, he wins. He’s flat rate. This is the real
World so it’s pointless to argue, I can diy in 2 and a pro can do it in 1, so why are you
Charging 3.5. I have no idea where book rates come from but it’s justified.

Sounds like a SAP installation/upgrade. I've done several. As they say, "You've got to feed the beast."
Even when it works, it doesn't work because you find some modules that are not working correctly. Bring in the consultant$...
Once they have you, they have you. I call ERP a necessary evil.

 

[SC Maintenance]

 

[John105]

View attachment 233494

Clarkie, where I used to get my Volvo fixed in the 1990's, the hourly rate was $24 (his real rate). It was $28 if you watched and $30 if you helped. His sign didn't have the last two

 

[ls1mike]

You all know I do a good portion of my work from head swaps to cam swaps. Well, the Malibu just rolled 120,000 miles and 2 weeks ago needed a water pump, actually the pump was good the O-ring for sealing failed. I don't have much time these days and looked where it was at. Nope. The bolts come from the back side under the turbo and exhaust manifold. I couldn't see all the bolts. I had to get out a borescope to see the last one. I don't know how the guy who did it got to it without removing the manifolds and I didn't ask. Probably would have taken me the whole weekend. He got me in 2 days, the work was done in 1 day.

789 bucks out the door with a year 12,000-mile warranty. I did go with a brand-new GM pump, because of location. It has been so long since I have had anyone do work on any of my cars. Worth every penny. When I got the car home, I did the vacuum pump as preventive maintenance. They fail on some 2.0 turbos around this time. It was easy but I thought, "Man, I should have just had them do this too." Lately I have just not had time to do anything that isn't related to submarines.

Last set of brakes I did was on the Caprice. 600 bucks just for quality pads and rotors and to do it right with cleaning, lubing, locktite, resetting calipers and torquing everything is a solid 3-hour job without a lift or an assistant. 1300 bucks does not sound too bad to me. I am not putting crap brakes on 400hp 4200 lbs car. You shouldn't put crap brakes on your turd either.

 

[mbres2000]

Don't be THAT guy. Pay for skilled labor, shop space, inventory of specially tools -- OR politely decline and put on your big boy panties and go do it yourself.

Suddenly Step 1 becomes "where is my floor jack?" And Step 2 is remembering how much you hate sliding around on your back in your driveway.

And, guys, it gets harder as you get older. For years I took my cars to shops only for warranty repairs and alignments. Now, about the only things I do myself are oil and filter changes, and minor brake work here and there -- pads and occasional rotor replacements. And as someone said above, the brake work is probably not thorough enough

We got my wife a new Kia Telluride a few months ago. I bought a discounted service package that includes changing the oil, oil filter, air filter, and cabin filter every x number of miles for 4 years, as I recall. Never had bought anything like that before, but It worked out to be less than $100 per visit. Super folks at the service department, too.

Her last car was an Infiniti, where their dealers see you as mark instead of a customer. You take the car in for a $39 loss-leader oil change and then you get a text saying the car needs everything from a trans flush to a cabin filter to rear brake job. One time it was an $1,100 quote on a car with around 30K miles! I got home and checked the rear pads and found they had around 75% of the original thickness.

 

[John105]

You all know I do a good portion of my work from head swaps to cam swaps. Well, the Malibu just rolled 120,000 miles and 2 weeks ago needed a water pump, actually the pump was good the O-ring for sealing failed. I don't have much time these days and looked where it was at. Nope. The bolts come from the back side under the turbo and exhaust manifold. I couldn't see all the bolts. I had to get out a borescope to see the last one. I don't know how the guy who did it got to it without removing the manifolds and I didn't ask. Probably would have taken me the whole weekend. He got me in 2 days, the work was done in 1 day.

789 bucks out the door with a year 12,000-mile warranty. I did go with a brand-new GM pump, because of location. It has been so long since I have had anyone do work on any of my cars. Worth every penny. When I got the car home, I did the vacuum pump as preventive maintenance. They fail on some 2.0 turbos around this time. It was easy but I thought, "Man, I should have just had them do this too." Lately I have just not had time to do anything that isn't related to submarines.

Last set of brakes I did was on the Caprice. 600 bucks just for quality pads and rotors and to do it right with cleaning, lubing, locktite, resetting calipers and torquing everything is a solid 3-hour job without a lift or an assistant. 1300 bucks does not sound too bad to me. I am not putting crap brakes on 400hp 4200 lbs car. You shouldn't put crap brakes on your turd either.

I did an Enclave water pump because dealer wanted $800 (in 2019). There was so much bad info on YouTube on how to do it. It was incredible people removing the main electronics and top engine strut etc. I managed to look at many (more than 10–yes not time effective for most), and one normal dad living in rural PA had the best video and said he promised you can get it out from the wheel well. I built on what he showed and didn’t even remove the fender liner. So 1/6 bolts was feel only. The last great tip (thank goodness) was on Amazon from a gentleman who said please use RTV even though the factory says not needed. You don’t want to do this job 2x and purchase new tty bolts ($4 ea times 6) like I did. Knock on wood I hope the 2019 OE water pump has the defect of the 2011 (several years) corrected. It was made in Canada.

Sometimes, if you can find a shop who thinks of you as a person and treats your car as you would (in theory they are running a business), it’s worth it to pay them.

I just don’t have the space to spread out and attempt the Toyota 3UZ-FE timing belt despite watching many videos. So I paid $950 in 2017, 1/2 of Lexus. Yet, I think the job was way better at the indie (knock on wood it’s 2024 all is well and all old parts returned—84k belt that came out looked brand new at age 10).

I tried for 2 hours to do LS430 front O2 sensors and failed. Shop charged me $130 labor. Definitely could say I wasted my own time, but hey, I tried. Shop said they thought this job would be tough in a driveway on one’s back (could not even get socket properly seated and swivel head ratchet couldn’t get correct angle)…

 

[mbres2000]

Where I used to get my Volvo fixed in the 1990's, the hourly rate was $24 (his real rate). It was $28 if you watched and $30 if you helped. His sign didn't have the last two

I worked for a Volvo dealership in the mid 80s, but not as a mechanic. Their flat rate was $39/hr and the mechanics got $13. For some crazy reason I still remember those numbers! Most guys could beat flat rate, so they probably averaged $130/day or more which was pretty decent back then, at least in the Dallas/Ft Worth area.

Funny but their complaints were the same as they are today--dealers always trying to screw them, and manufacturers not wanting to pay them enough for warranty repairs. It's certainly not fair to call them crooks, dishonest etc. Those guys and a Ford mechanic I knew were super-hard workers and came home beat. I've got a bunch of stories from them, but won't bore you! Most are about tricks to beat flat rate.

 

[burbguy82]

I am not saying that DIY is not better, $1300 sound reasonable. 2 calipers, 4 rotors and pads. Book time is likely 3+ hours. Parts there going to charge you something approaching list.

So maybe 3 hours @ 200 / hr = $600
Ever present shop fees = $100
Parts - again at list maybe $600

So were at the $1300.

Shop math is to make most of your profit is in parts markup. Not saying its good, but looks like you were quoted something near the going rate likely. Unfortunately.

200 an hour is ridiculous. Yes the work is important, but still ridiculous cost. Especially when the business does not have to mobilize to perform their task.

But many of the millennials cant turn on a light switch without googling it or watching a YT video.

 

[John105]

I'm contemplating doing a brake fluid job today (every 2 years/dashboard warning lit). I shouldn't dread it so much but I do. Part of it is digging up the Motive and the line wrenches and adapter. I know where the fluid is, it is not brand new but sealed containers. I'm stuck being on-call so I can't go to a bbq at a state park as I rely upon cell for voice and the laptop if I get a call. May as well try to accomplish something at home today....

 

[dfarr67]

I had a dispute with an ex regular mechanic a few years ago- wanted front end noise fixed, he installed upper and lower ball joints and charged full book time for each. Talked to a few others around town and they ALL deemed it fair that they would charge minimal extra for the second as they were already there (like 1/4hr)....we argued about it I left never went back and he went out of business a year later. He never did fix the issue I brought it in for (loose brake pad), and it occurred to me I was fixing his other shoddy work.

 

[Rust_Belt_Pete]

I dont like to say and think "you are charging too much for your services". I have an independent mechanic who is very good and very busy and cost of opportunity is a thing.
Instead I say to myself "I cant afford that".

 

[Wylie6G72]

Yea-there is no such thing as calipers not working correctly-especially on higher miles vehicles....

The right rear pads and rotor on my '99 Explorer would like to comment.

 

[clinebarger]

200 an hour is ridiculous. Yes the work is important, but still ridiculous cost. Especially when the business does not have to mobilize to perform their task.

But many of the millennials cant turn on a light switch without googling it or watching a YT video.

If things keep going like they have been, Independent Garages will have no choice but to charge $200+ an hour. Some tools & equipment cost double what they did 6 years ago, Commercial leases are through the roof. Cities/Municipalities don't normally want you on a main drag either.


I'm at $150 & own the location.....Not getting rich that's for sure, But I don't struggle either. Most all profits are put back in for equipment, trans cores, & inventory. All said & done it makes 1-2% of gross.

 

[burbguy82]

If things keep going like they have been, Independent Garages will have no choice but to charge $200+ an hour. Some tools & equipment cost double what they did 6 years ago, Commercial leases are through the roof. Cities/Municipalities don't normally want you on a main drag either.


I'm at $150 & own the location.....Not getting rich that's for sure, But I don't struggle either. Most all profits are put back in for equipment, trans cores, & inventory. All said & done it makes 1-2% of gross.

I am with you. I own a business. Dont get me wrong. I am not against a high wage. I am against a high wage and crappy work. In my opinion, most dealers suck, and are parts changers. For someone who knows what they are going, and takes pride and does it right.......like yourself, sure. But they are few and far between.

Recently, at a Lexus dealer, I paid them 300 for a multi point, presale vehicle inspection. They noted no coolant leaks at all. After a coupel of days, I am doing Lexus surgery and replacing a radiatior. Their report showed TPMS sensors. Why because the idiots can do much after the scanner tells them .

Main drag is more expensive. Something tells me you get repeat business, and probably dont rely on walk ins.

 

[KrisZ]

I am with you. I own a business. Dont get me wrong. I am not against a high wage. I am against a high wage and crappy work. In my opinion, most dealers suck, and are parts changers. For someone who knows what they are going, and takes pride and does it right.......like yourself, sure. But they are few and far between.

Recently, at a Lexus dealer, I paid them 300 for a multi point, presale vehicle inspection. They noted no coolant leaks at all. After a coupel of days, I am doing Lexus surgery and replacing a radiatior. Their report showed TPMS sensors. Why because the idiots can do much after the scanner tells them .

Main drag is more expensive. Something tells me you get repeat business, and probably dont rely on walk ins.

Knowing all of this and it sounds like you know how poor the dealer techs are in general, my question to you is, why did you still go to a dealer?

That’s what I see constantly on this forum. People complain about high dealer prices and poor service, but they keep going to them. Makes no logical sense.

 

[burbguy82]

my question to you is, why did you still go to a dealer?

Great question. In this case, I did not know any Toyota mechanics, nor did I have a knowledge base on Toyota trucks. So, I took it to the Lexus dealer.

I do not think that all dealer techs are junk. I think there is a culture of computer baiting, non common sense using school kids who aspired to be in Nascar, (NTI fallouts, at least in my area)), who really don't know much about something beyond a code.

I think the expectation of the "dealer level service" is 100% accuracy, 100% good parts, 100% proper procedure......I feel as though most do not receive that level of work from most dealers.

 

[dfarr67]

If things keep going like they have been, Independent Garages will have no choice but to charge $200+ an hour. Some tools & equipment cost double what they did 6 years ago, Commercial leases are through the roof. Cities/Municipalities don't normally want you on a main drag either.


I'm at $150 & own the location.....Not getting rich that's for sure, But I don't struggle either. Most all profits are put back in for equipment, trans cores, & inventory. All said & done it makes 1-2% of gross.

You are in a bit of a niche....

 

[demarpaint]

Do you know all the overhead and nuances of being in business? You should double down on what it takes to run businesses before you use the word "exploit. Normal brake jobs are running $500/$700.00 per axle (at least). Throwing in the additional parts you mentioned doesn't equal-"exploit"-IMHO.
15 minutes a wheel-give me a break. (LOL)

Your post borders on hilarious or naive-I'm not sure which.

You bring up valid points and a story I'll share from way back when. When I started my painting business a potential customer/quite wealthy challenged my prices. I was quick to defend my quote, stating I was licensed, insured, hired qualified professionals, and had overhead along with other insurances I had to pay for. He was pretty quick with his rebuttal, stating "that's your problem." I wished him well and left. That was well over 40 years ago and I can remember it like it was yesterday. He was right, it was my problem, and it's the business owner who quoted the seemingly high price for the brake jobs problem. IMO the bottom line is this, if you have the tools, time, and knowledge don't let a shop's high cost to do business become your problem. DIY and save. OTOH if you have to pay, get recommendations and get an idea of prices.

 

[AdmiralYoda]

All, especially the OP... things have changed over the years requiring higher and higher costs. My father owned a small auto repair shop for 40 years and I'd like to provide a little insight on how things work behind the curtains....

For discussion sake lets assume the replacement brake parts were name-brand average replacement parts like Raybestos or something. Nothing dirt cheap or fancy. I'll go one step further and just use a locally owned auto repair shop as the example and skip the dealer part.

Part $$$ markup.

• Yes, you can buy your parts from Rockauto and skip all the middle men and your parts will arrive in a few days. At an auto repair shop the tech (or whoever) calls their preferred local auto parts distributor and says.... "okay Johnny...I have a 1998 Chevy XYZ and I need rotors, pads and calipers....what do you have in stock?" If you are lucky there might even be a couple options.
• The mechanic says....okay, send them over and they are delivered to you in about as much time as it takes food to be delivered.
• The parts distributor probably buys them for Rockauto prices. They have to make money on the whole deal and have to put their overhead in also.
• What is also important is that these parts are going to be warrantied!!!!! If the mechanic spots a defect while installing, the auto part store runs over with a replacement FAST at no charge. If the part fails during its warranty period the part is replaced for free and the auto parts store handles the warranty.
• Finally, the Auto Repair Shop has to make money on the parts so there is a markup also.

Labor Hours

• They don't just whip....yeah that will take 6 hours out of the sky. All reputable repair shops subscribe to AllData or any number of other labor guides. They look up the vehicle and the job and it tells them how many hours it is going to be to do the work.
• This is an average. You win some and you lose some. Sometimes you beat the estimate by a bit and sometimes you don't. But generally the hours quoted comes from a labor guide....not some wild guess.

Labor Costs

• Yes they are stupid high, but I can guarantee you there is no price gouging going on with the good shops. Shop insurance costs are ridiculously high, electricity is stupid high, as is Heat/AC and all the other utilities are through the roof.
• Real estate costs have gone up so the mortgage or lease has also gone up dramatically over the years.
• Health insurance costs for the employees have gone up enormously over the last few decades and wages have gone up too to remain competitive.
• This is why the dealer wants $200/hr and why the independent guy can maybe get away with $150/hr.
• Think about that. Let's say the mechanic is going to make $40/hr. Another $25/hr is going to cover the employer responsibilities for the mechanics health insurance and social security payments. Add some dollar value for the shop to stay open and operate too, it adds up quick. That leaves whatever is left to go to the shop owner as part of the profit.

So it isn't too ridiculous for your $300 in brake parts to cost $1,300 for a shop to do the work. The parts distributor bought the parts for $275 and is going to sell them to the shop for $400 (with prompt delivery) to cover their costs, warranty and profit. Then the shop is going to charge $500 so they can make some money too.

Lets say the book says 3 hours of labor at $150/hr. Now your up to maybe $950 total. Add in environmental fees, taxes, etc and your over $1k. This is just a loose example.

The point is....the cost of doing business is expensive! And if you snap two bolts and strip the threads off of some lug nuts doing your own brake job....now what? Maybe YOU have the tools and expertise to deal with this but 99.9% of the regular guys don't. What are you going to do now? Buy the tools to attempt to fix it? Wait for a friend to help? Higher a mobile mechanic? Have it towed to a shop? All part of the gamble.

 

[AdmiralYoda]

And one last note since I'm on my soap-box.

A mechanic isn't going to disassemble you're entire brake system to see exactly what needs to be replaced and then give you a quote. At best they are going to take your wheels off and inspect the rotors and pads for uneven wear.

Also keep in mind tribal and regional knowledge. Lets say you are in New England and late 90's GM trucks are known for having rusty frozen brake calipers. Maybe 9 times out of 10 they aren't worth the trouble. If they spot uneven pad wear they will 100% want to replace the calipers. Just a made-up example but you get the point.

It isn't the 70's and we don't rebuild calipers and wheel cylinders anymore unless we have no other choice. If there is any sign that the caliper isn't working right...they will want to replace it.

So when the customer says...."My brakes aren't pulling to the left or right....my calipers are fine, you are trying to rip me off!!!" It probably isn't the case.

Your calipers are on their way out and the mechanic doesn't want you to come back in 500 miles once they finally freeze up and your brakes are toast again and you need ANOTHER brake job, this time with new calipers.