Ditching the whole synthetic rave...

Pennzoil motor oil
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Synthetic oil within any given SAE viscosity grade has much better cold flow properties than conventional oil.

There is NOTHING wrong with that statement. Nothing miraculous. Just the truth. Will the difference help your car start when cold? YES.

Will conventional 5w30 cause your car to not start in the same cold weather? Probably not.
 
Originally Posted By: gmh101357
We drive very little maybe 7500 8000 miles a year and I still use PP. I change the oil every 4 months and the extra 40 bucks I spend a year is worth it If we can get 200k out of our 07 2.4 highlander. I thought the same thing last year and used Pennzoil conventional but went back this year to PP....If I use trading in the car at 100k yeah....stick with Dinolube.
You can get the same life out of your Toyota using the cheapest proper rated oil you can find with 4 month oil changes . Where did you get the syn oil ideas?
 
Originally Posted By: brsmith


I have seen and done the Amsoil dry ice demonstration too many times with about every oil I can find.
I believe in lab testing, but also there is real world testing.


Perhaps Big-Kat should be using synthetic the next time the temperature in Iowa drops to 110 below, or if he should park on a block of dry ice.
He's probably just fine and dandy with dino otherwise.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Synthetic oil within any given SAE viscosity grade has much better cold flow properties than conventional oil.

There is NOTHING wrong with that statement. Nothing miraculous. Just the truth. Will the difference help your car start when cold? YES.

Will conventional 5w30 cause your car to not start in the same cold weather? Probably not.


I think the thing to add to this as well is if your engine is OHC or conventional OHV . It's very important to get that oil up to the camshaft(s) on start up and it has been shown that a lot of wear happens when oils are thicker due to the cold . One test I read about some years back said it took up to 5 minutes for the oil to finally get to the overhead cam and I believe the engine was a Ford 2.3. I cringed when I read that ! AS you can see in my sig 2 of my engines are DOHC so I feel it is important in the long run to get lubrication to those parts ASAP .
 
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This is my last post on this site. It is an inhospitable website and the moderators such as the supposed great oil guru: Bill in Utah, are supposed experts that think they know everything about car maintenance and such when all they do is probably just change oil and have never had to actually tear anything down.

I bet I have torn down more engines and built more racing engines than you have seen, I quit counting after 10,000.

I HAVE built engines that I have raced a minimum of 100 passes that I didn't change the synthetic oil in them and when I did my post season tear down, I could have just put it back together and continued.

Nobody had been more apprehensive of synthetic oils than my late father. He was Tech Sergeant in the Army Air Corps/ U.S.A.F. He was a crew chief on a B-29 Superfortress in the Pacific. He helped me tear down an engine about 10 years before his death and he saw for himself, how much cleaner and how little wear there was with an engine using synthetic and he finally accepted my offer to change out his car. It was about the equivilent of Rush Limbaugh supporting President Obama.

Anyway, it is fine to have a difference of opinion, I enjoy some jousting, but I will not stay where people have no manners and accuse one of lying.

All of you have a nice life, use whatever you feel works, but don't accept just because a guy has 4 or 5 thousand posts on a website as anyone who is an authority.



Lastly,

For Seguino: Next time, have a little class...

It is very simple. You place bottles of oil in blocks of dry ice and using a device called a thermometer, the temperature is measured until the oil within those bottles is at -20*F. You do realize you cannot do that with regular ice or a typical freezer right??????? You then pour the contents of the bottles, but you find that the bottles containing conventional oil will not pour, but amazingly enough, the ones containing synthetic oil still do.
 
I have seen conventional oil in and OHC engine with the iowa winters still make it to 200k+. I was my dads 91 plymouth acclaim with the 2.5L changed at 4000 mile OCI on anything. Its still running today my little nephew has it as his first car. All we've had to do to it is change the timing belt and change fluids.

-Big Kat
 
I looked at the pour points of FS 5w30 and QS Torque power and the FS was -30C and QS was -33. The car is garaged so it doesn't sit in the wind over night. I drive the car seven days a week with my minimum trip of 10miles from house to work on rural hwy.
 
Originally Posted By: brsmith
Quote: "even cold cranking is better with fresh conventional oil."

Compared to synthetic????

NO WAY!!!



I really can't help with people's reading comprehension.

As clearly as possible, I said, FRESH Conventional OIL COMPARED TO USED Synthetic OIL AFTER 6000 MILES.

Get it now? Long before most people here joined the site,
ACTUAL OIL FORMULATORS explained how COLD-CRANKING IS ONE OF THE FIRST QUALITIES OF A MOTOR OIL TO DEGRADE IN SERVICE. Do you have any data to contradict that? Let us know what you get some.

FRESH oil verses USED oil, get it, or is the lack of oxygen in your jet plane getting to your brain?
 
Originally Posted By: jeepman
After tracking the MPG in both of my cars over a year period (6 month syn, 6 month dino), they average 1-1.5 MPG better with Pennzoil conventional, than with PP. And yes, I track it in a piece of auto maintenance software everytime I fill up, same gas station, etc. I would have called it a fluke if it was 1 car, but both are averaging about the same increase. I became curious about this because the debate over Aveo MPG is fierce elsewhere on the internet as the car should do better than it does. Most Aveo owners reported their best MPG with GTX, so I setup conditions to test this using Pennzoil conventional, and brought the Vue along for the ride.

See the above...response. Only gain for me was with dino after a year of tracking MPG on either of my cars, And the no brainer to me is to get those contaminants out of the engine frequently.


I want to know how you managed to compensate for the climatic differences experienced in a typical year in Ohio, and all the factors that are effected by it. You know, things like fuel blends, rolling resistance, parasitic drag, etc. In a six-month test cycle, that just ain't happenin'...
 
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
I dunno if the mpg w/syn oil applies after it's been in the engine 6000 miles compared to fresh conventional oil with new friction modifiers.

Synth costs 2x conventional, you could change conventional 2x as often and get a better result. Engine deposits, mpg and even cold cranking is better with fresh conventional oil.


Have you considered writing for a fiction magazine?
shocked2.gif


This is speculation (pertaining to deposits, mpg, cold weather performance) until some concrete evidence is shown.


AGAIN, YOU ARE NEW TO THIS SITE BY A FACTOR OF TEN, I DO NOT PLAN ON GOING OVER EVERY TIDBIT OF DATA FROM 8 YEARS FOR EVERY TROLL THAT WANDERS ONTO THE SITE.

COMPARE THE *COMBINED* TBN FOR TWO CHANGES OF Conventional OIL TO ONE OF SYNTH, CAN YOU ADD TWO DIGIT NUMBERS?

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT OF ADDITIVES DEGRADING IN-SERVICE? WHERE WERE YOU FIVE YEARS AGO WHEN SMART PEOPLE WERE HERE DISCUSSING THESE ISSUES?

DON'T YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD OF SUBSTANCE OTHER THEN TO QUESTION KNOWN EFFECTS OBSERVED AND RECORDED AS FACT BY SENIOR MEMBERS? WHERE IS YOUR DATA, WHERE ARE YOUR CRUDENTIALS, WHERE IS YOUR EXPERIENCE AND CONCEPTS THAT YOU FORMED BY YOURSELF?
 
Originally Posted By: BobFout

Have you considered writing for a fiction magazine?
shocked2.gif


This is speculation


At least I'm writing on technical subjects.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=userposts&view=started&id=26559

Not one single analytical post, just a lot of "oh I'm gonna try a new oil", etc.

Keep up your obnoxious posts and I'll hand you something back every time. This is not your first time with unnecessarily attacking me personally. Your cash contribution to the site does not buy you the right to act with an ignorant attitude toward other members.

Direct your posts at the original poster and the subject in the thread title and we won't have a problem.

This is a prime example of what I explain as someone who should be reading more and posting less. I suggest getting a basic understanding of subjects before you post in a critical manner, such as additive degradation and the simple concept of the TBN of two oil changes exceeding the TBN of a single change.
 
"Old timer's stories are always welcomed, they're just not applicable to modern oils."

Hmm... I am 45, and my 34 year old wife doesn't think I am old, I married her when she was 20. ;-]

Try the dry ice experiment yourself, newer dino can say they go to -33, but after -20*F, you will see a huge difference in any dino vs. Synthetic, that is just the plain truth, not someone who has just old stories to swap.

I started helping my dad when I was 4 years old and using Amsoil in my Motocross bikes when I was 13.

I have grown up in the development of oils, not some old has been speaking of the "good ole days."

Not relevant to this discussion, but just wait until the nano technology lubricants that use 90 nanometer spherical nano diamond start catching on. This my friends, will be the next evolution of lubricants.

Many BITOGERS will say they don't work and can't see any merit in using them or anything. Just as they do with synthetics for typical automotive use, but several NASCAR teams are testing them right now.

I learned of them for use in firearms and in the near future, I am going to develop my own lubricant using this technology for firearm use to start and an auto additive formula later.

As I said though, I will look to here for entertainment, but I will not post here.

I just wanted to set the record straight for those that have accused me of lies and those that are making false assumptions.

That is the bad thing about the internet, most will say things they would never have the courage or poor manners to say to someone's face.

BTW, AudieJunkie, I have no problem with altitude, I hold a high altitude endorsement from the FAA. I am also a commercial/ATP pilot with a bachelors degree of applied science in aviation: professional pilot.



Take Care BITOGERS!!!
 
You live in Oklahoma dude, talking about -33f starting temps like it happens every day is beyond hilarious.
crackmeup2.gif


Somehow, although I didn't quote you, you knew I was talking about your post when I said "old timer"

I was refering to the old timer stories of your late father, and frankly, you talk about engine rebuild in the 1000s, that's either wild fantasy, poorly built engines or something unexplainable.

Taking the number you quoted, 10,000 rebuilt engines means you rebuilt a (race) engine every day, weekends included, for 27 years strait. See, at BitOG people "do the math".

Allow me the privilege of being skeptical.

I find your wild exaggerations and jet aircraft analogies almost child-like, and quite entertaining.
happy2.gif


Thanks.
thumbsup2.gif
 
BTW, I am from Illinois and know a little bit about cold weather. Also, my family built quite a lucrative engine service that allowed me to build and work on whatever I wanted. It also allowed me many privileges that otherwise I wouldn't have. I have only lived in Oklahoma 3 years. I am actually semi-retired and have a nice little house with 49 acres that I am spending time with my kids on.

I really don't have to explain myself to you, with your manners, it is apparent you are quite smitten with yourself and think you have done much and you are some senior authority here. If it makes you feel like a big man, or better about yourself, keep lashing out at people.

I just came on here trying to learn some cross reference info awhile back and to share a few stories since I have the time, not to argue with people who offend.

I guarantee, you wouldn't use the tone to my face you have in your posts.

Take Care.
 
Originally Posted By: brsmith
I hold a high altitude endorsement from the FAA. I am also a commercial/ATP pilot with a bachelors degree of applied science in aviation: professional pilot.



OK, I can't let this go.

And what does this have anything to do with oil???

There's nothing special about what you listed. I have everything you listed plus a type, in the left seat of an airliner, check airman , 6,000+ hrs and I'm 17 years YOUNGER than you. You should know that having a degree in Aviation Science is one of the most useless degree out there.
 
"OK, I can't let this go.

And what does this have anything to do with oil???"


It was just a response to his snide remark about my brain being effected by a lack of O2.

I wasn't saying it as in any reference to my credibility of oil, just a smart response to his.

Regards and I hope you are making good money, it is tough out there and I know guys with more hours than you not working.
 
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