I really think those of us who refer to dealerships as Stealerships and some Frams as Oil cans of death and the list goes on, are misinformed (political correct wording), because they give the good dealers a bad rap. Yes, there are good and poor dealers but, the id10ts who classify them all are wrong. My dealer happens to be a good one. Now I've open the flood gate for all those who like to rant, to no good purpose, just to read about themselves. Ed
DisService
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I think the problem with dealerships is that they have service managers. Most of the time, service managers are judged by profit margins. If you are judged on your job by a set criteria, you are going to meet or exceed that criteria. Independant shops know they need repeat business ( they don't have guaranteed warranty work to pay the bills) so they frequently have a better reputation than dealers.
I agree there are probably good dealership service departments, but the reputation as an industry was earned somehow.
I agree there are probably good dealership service departments, but the reputation as an industry was earned somehow.
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I think I have a good Honda dealer I have yet to use for service in Ile Perrot.
I agree with people who worry with a new car though, it is just plain difficult to find the Dealers that are awesome.
Just to defend the negatives this thread will get...
I agree with people who worry with a new car though, it is just plain difficult to find the Dealers that are awesome.
Just to defend the negatives this thread will get...
As I wrote in another thread, I think that the majority of shops are honest with only a small minority being either dishonest or incompetent.
Now, honest doesn't equal cheap and we all know that we can buy the parts and DIY the work for a fraction of what any shop will charge.
For those who can't or won't, a good shop is a necessity.
There is nothing inherently evil about dealer service shops.
They may not be cheap, but that doesn't equate with their being thieves.
Fram oil filters are a whole different deal.
I used the orange can for decades with no problems. Having a bunch of members echoing one another about the supposed failings of the basic Fram filter doesn't change the fact that they worked perfectly well in my personal experience.
Maybe we should all refrain from posting easy generalities about entire industries or groups of products and stick to those topics we actually have some personal knowledge of?
Now, honest doesn't equal cheap and we all know that we can buy the parts and DIY the work for a fraction of what any shop will charge.
For those who can't or won't, a good shop is a necessity.
There is nothing inherently evil about dealer service shops.
They may not be cheap, but that doesn't equate with their being thieves.
Fram oil filters are a whole different deal.
I used the orange can for decades with no problems. Having a bunch of members echoing one another about the supposed failings of the basic Fram filter doesn't change the fact that they worked perfectly well in my personal experience.
Maybe we should all refrain from posting easy generalities about entire industries or groups of products and stick to those topics we actually have some personal knowledge of?
Originally Posted By: Eddie
I really think those of us who refer to dealerships as Stealerships and some Frams as Oil cans of death and the list goes on, are misinformed (political correct wording), because they give the good dealers a bad rap. Yes, there are good and poor dealers but, the id10ts who classify them all are wrong. My dealer happens to be a good one. Now I've open the flood gate for all those who like to rant, to no good purpose, just to read about themselves. Ed
Feeding time under the bridge.
I really think those of us who refer to dealerships as Stealerships and some Frams as Oil cans of death and the list goes on, are misinformed (political correct wording), because they give the good dealers a bad rap. Yes, there are good and poor dealers but, the id10ts who classify them all are wrong. My dealer happens to be a good one. Now I've open the flood gate for all those who like to rant, to no good purpose, just to read about themselves. Ed
Feeding time under the bridge.
Whenever we "broad-brush" any group. We are wrong.
I always found it a bit ironic (and humorous) that the people that generalize them as "stealerships" are the ones that went there in the first place, knowing what they claim to know about them.
But then the Internet is rife with folks like that, and this site is no exception. Rather than the wealth of information that it used to be, it's now overflowing with "Internet experts" who read about something (such as Fram oil filters) and simply parrot what they read without any facts to back up their information.
But then the Internet is rife with folks like that, and this site is no exception. Rather than the wealth of information that it used to be, it's now overflowing with "Internet experts" who read about something (such as Fram oil filters) and simply parrot what they read without any facts to back up their information.
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
I always found it a bit ironic (and humorous) that the people that generalize them as "stealerships" are the ones that went there in the first place, knowing what they claim to know about them.
But then the Internet is rife with folks like that, and this site is no exception. Rather than the wealth of information that it used to be, it's now overflowing with "Internet experts" who read about something (such as Fram oil filters) and simply parrot what they read without any facts to back up their information.
This ^^^^^^^^
* I came across once where a so-called "expert" brought his car into dealership to get something done, but disagreed with the mech + service writer over the counter. He tried to show/tell what the mech+ service writer using his tablet (onto internet he went) what the certain so-n-so on the internet recommends him to do, which is not what the mech recommends....
And the arguments went on....
Q.
I always found it a bit ironic (and humorous) that the people that generalize them as "stealerships" are the ones that went there in the first place, knowing what they claim to know about them.
But then the Internet is rife with folks like that, and this site is no exception. Rather than the wealth of information that it used to be, it's now overflowing with "Internet experts" who read about something (such as Fram oil filters) and simply parrot what they read without any facts to back up their information.
This ^^^^^^^^
* I came across once where a so-called "expert" brought his car into dealership to get something done, but disagreed with the mech + service writer over the counter. He tried to show/tell what the mech+ service writer using his tablet (onto internet he went) what the certain so-n-so on the internet recommends him to do, which is not what the mech recommends....
And the arguments went on....
Q.
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
I always found it a bit ironic (and humorous) that the people that generalize them as "stealerships" are the ones that went there in the first place, knowing what they claim to know about them.
I could say "I couldn't find the part at my favorite independent friendly local auto parts store, so I went to the stealership and paid $10 for one bolt." In fact, I just did this yesterday. A $15k HHR surely wasn't built with $10 bolts from the get-go.
I haven't, yet. I'm not blaming 100% the business who got me out of a jam, but rather "the system" that makes some parts very hard to come by. I know that there's a premium to pay for getting the right part, now, in stock.
Similarly if Dodge VIN-Locked a computer and I *had to* visit "the stealership" to get it working again, I hope it would reflect on the marque's engineers, and not the hardworking joes who have to put up with their owner's everyday working politics as well as the franchise's.
I always found it a bit ironic (and humorous) that the people that generalize them as "stealerships" are the ones that went there in the first place, knowing what they claim to know about them.
I could say "I couldn't find the part at my favorite independent friendly local auto parts store, so I went to the stealership and paid $10 for one bolt." In fact, I just did this yesterday. A $15k HHR surely wasn't built with $10 bolts from the get-go.
I haven't, yet. I'm not blaming 100% the business who got me out of a jam, but rather "the system" that makes some parts very hard to come by. I know that there's a premium to pay for getting the right part, now, in stock.
Similarly if Dodge VIN-Locked a computer and I *had to* visit "the stealership" to get it working again, I hope it would reflect on the marque's engineers, and not the hardworking joes who have to put up with their owner's everyday working politics as well as the franchise's.
I only rant about the dealer service dept, when they can't even put the issue I came in for into the computer without completely changing the meaning ofwhat I said.
And I call them stealerships when they charge 3x as much for the identical part.
And I call them stealerships when they charge 3x as much for the identical part.
Nothing but horror stories from our local dealers.they earned the stealership name.
Even the best dealership is one jerk employee away from being useless. We all have our tale to tell......Mine is about a BMW motorcycle service manager.
Also, my observation has been that attitudes toward fixing issues has a slant according to nationality. German companies never admit fault, japanese companies tend to ignore fault and fix the problem. In either case, an idiot service manager can be a serious impediment, if he/she happens to be in between you and corporate policy.
I do my own work, and hate to have to deal with warranty issues. I shudder when I think about what most people are subject to, in dealing with getting vehicles serviced at dealerships.
Also, my observation has been that attitudes toward fixing issues has a slant according to nationality. German companies never admit fault, japanese companies tend to ignore fault and fix the problem. In either case, an idiot service manager can be a serious impediment, if he/she happens to be in between you and corporate policy.
I do my own work, and hate to have to deal with warranty issues. I shudder when I think about what most people are subject to, in dealing with getting vehicles serviced at dealerships.
Dealerships too often play the captive audience game with service customers. There's a lot of overhead that would not otherwise be there for a repair shop. They are governed by management controlled by sales people. The definition of overall profitability of a dealership is often defined by the service department. They have goals to meet every day, every week and every month. A service manager at a dealership manages a lot more then fixing cars. They have more and bigger opportunities to succeed and fail everyday. They have resources that exceed anything an independent shop will ever see but they are expensive and it's reflected at the cash register way too often.
For most vehicle owners there are better solutions for many situations but that takes time and effort. It can be difficult to pick a really good independent shop. So, many take the path of least resistance and go to the dealer. And that's business as usual. You will pay more for service on the easy path.
For most vehicle owners there are better solutions for many situations but that takes time and effort. It can be difficult to pick a really good independent shop. So, many take the path of least resistance and go to the dealer. And that's business as usual. You will pay more for service on the easy path.
I don't think that it's really all that difficult to find a good indie.
Any one or two man show that stays in business for years is probably doing good work.
As others have noted, for an older vehicle, the dealer's service department may be useless, since the techs who worked on and developed expertise in those vehicles when they were new are probably long gone.
Many people are brainwashed into thinking that only the dealer's service department can provide the correct parts and service for a vehicle.
A tech I know who does side work put brakes on a woman's Toyota recently. She insisted that OEM parts be used. Now, a Toyota isn't exactly a BMW or a Porsche when it comes to brake performance and for the price of the Toyota pads, there are much better ones available.
Didn't matter. Having been brainwashed into thinking that every Toyota part is of a quality level unobtainable in anything else, the customer insisted on paying a large premium for supplier-made pads that came in a box bearing the Toyota logo.
Any one or two man show that stays in business for years is probably doing good work.
As others have noted, for an older vehicle, the dealer's service department may be useless, since the techs who worked on and developed expertise in those vehicles when they were new are probably long gone.
Many people are brainwashed into thinking that only the dealer's service department can provide the correct parts and service for a vehicle.
A tech I know who does side work put brakes on a woman's Toyota recently. She insisted that OEM parts be used. Now, a Toyota isn't exactly a BMW or a Porsche when it comes to brake performance and for the price of the Toyota pads, there are much better ones available.
Didn't matter. Having been brainwashed into thinking that every Toyota part is of a quality level unobtainable in anything else, the customer insisted on paying a large premium for supplier-made pads that came in a box bearing the Toyota logo.
The reason they are called $tealerships is because
many if not most of them are just that.
Where there is smoke there is fire.
many if not most of them are just that.
Where there is smoke there is fire.
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Imo anytime commissions are involved,you're going to get crooks and snow jobs. Because if it means being a professional ripoff artist to feed your family and pay your bills,then that's what will happen.
If a commissioned salesperson has to choose between being honest and not being able to buy dinner for their family by missing a high dollar sale and get their utilities turned off,or being honest and not being able to pay the bills and feed their family,guess which choice they will make.
If a commissioned salesperson has to choose between being honest and not being able to buy dinner for their family by missing a high dollar sale and get their utilities turned off,or being honest and not being able to pay the bills and feed their family,guess which choice they will make.
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