Direct drive washer coupler advice

[Hokiefyd]

About four years ago, I replaced the coupler on my 2003-era Kenmore washer while I was in there replacing a clogged pump. I bought the "heavy duty" coupler with the metal inserts. Thought nothing of it.

Last night, our washer started making some horrible grinding noises. The tub was trying to spin, but wouldn't...the motor was turning, but the tub wasn't spinning. Upon inspection, it appears that the transmission side of the coupler had a keyway that was all egged-out. It was essentially stripped. Okay, no problem, I'll just replace it. Not so fast, chief. Gee, that transmission input shaft looks a little warbled, too. Sure enough...its keyed surfaces are rounded smooth as well.

I jumped on the interwebz to see what to do. Unfortunately, the input shaft is pressed into the transmission...there's really no feasible way for a DIYer to replace it. It's not even sold separately to begin with. So I have to buy a new transmission ($140 on Amazon Prime). I started looking at reviews of the couplers on there as well. There are numerous comments against using the new couplers with the metal inserts...mostly citing stripped motor shafts. There are a few citing stripped transmission shafts as well.

I guess it makes sense when you think about it. The original plastic coupler was the sacrificial lamb...a plastic coupler will never strip a metal shaft. The new "heavy duty" couplers work great...until you get a high load or some tolerance in the keyway built up and it wears together with the shaft and rounds them both.

So apparently the trick here is to use the plastic couplers...and they're getting hard to find. Maybe Whirlpool wasn't selling enough motors or transmissions, and they needed to find a way to drive their replacement parts business to be more profitable...

 

[Donald]

It sounds to me that you are part of the extended test program for Kenmore.

You have gotten 10 years out of the washer. Maybe best to not spend more on it.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Donald
It sounds to me that you are part of the extended test program for Kenmore.


What makes me mad is I didn't have to put that new coupler in when I did the pump. It was one of those "mightaswells". "Cheap insurance", right? If I had left that plastic coupler in there, I might have been putting a new coupler in it this weekend instead of a new transmission.

Originally Posted By: Donald
You have gotten 10 years out of the washer. Maybe best to not spend more on it.


I thought about that, but it's been a good washer, I know how to work on it, and my wife enjoys using it. It's an "Elite" model with a number of settings she uses regularly. An equivalent washer today looks to be in the $600 range, and I may have to put a $150 motor or transmission in it 5 years down the road because of this same issue...that or take it apart still new and put a plastic coupler in it!

I also thought about buying used, but then I'm getting someone else's problem.

In the end, we decided to spend $150 on a known quantity that I'm confident will continue to run many years into the future. Even a new unit is a risk (lemon, bad parts, etc).

 

[CT8]

10 years old it is buy a new Speed Queen.

 

[UNC017]

Originally Posted By: Donald
It sounds to me that you are part of the extended test program for Kenmore.

You have gotten 10 years out of the washer. Maybe best to not spend more on it.



You're kidding. That era/design Whirlpool washer is easily good for 20+ years with just minimal care. When we bought our fancy-pants front-loading washer dryer set, I kept the old Kenmore (which my wife bought for her last apartment before we got married, putting it circa 1988). I primarily use it for washing garage rags, shop towels, house-cleaning rags, and such. But more than once my wife's had to use it for regular laundry because the front-loader was down for the count with some expensive electronic controller repair.

I've replaced the drain pump, a couple of hoses, inlet strainer screens in the hoses, had to R&R the fill diffuser to clean the dirt and scale off of it, and that's all. It could use a set of snubber pads and counterbalance springs- I'll probably spend the whole $15 for all that from Repairclinic.com and keep it going a while longer. The transmission is only half-way complicated part in the whole machine, and its truly amazing you can pick one up for $140. Its not even very hard to install- there are videos on repairclinic.com that show how.

Yeah, its harder on clothes than the front-loader... the dryer lint screen has double the stuff in it when you wash a load with the old Kenmore than it does when you use the front-loader... but its stupid-tough, cheap, and easy to fix if something does go wrong. I think the cabinet on this one may rust away before the guts quit working.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
The transmission is only half-way complicated part in the whole machine, and its truly amazing you can pick one up for $140. Its not even very hard to install- there are videos on repairclinic.com that show how.


And they're pretty neat inside. I took my transmission completely down, to see if I could replace just the input shaft. It's frustrating that the input shaft is the ONLY part of the transmission that becomes integral to the case once it's pressed in. Every other piece in there just slips in/out on various shafts.

The oil is a honey chocolate milk-looking heavy oil. Looks like about 90 weight gear oil. The various gears inside look great...I'm really sad to replace this thing, only because I know it otherwise works and works well...and the machining inside is neat to look at...it's not beat up at all. I'll likely keep the guts around for parts should the new transmission act up in the future.

I agree: this washer is a 20+ year washer. We have its matching dryer...I've replaced a relay or two in it and also the heating element once. All of this stuff is easy to repair and parts for these Whirlpools are pretty easy to come by.

 

[Squirrelee]

Another vote for "keep it forever." These washers are easy and cheap to keep running.

As far as the coupler goes, several years ago I hit the local parts supplier and specifically asked for the "new style" coupler with the metal inserts. He told me then what you have unfortunately found out now - they lead to more expensive things breaking. I've managed to collect 4-5 of the old style to keep in my parts box for future repairs.

 

[Donald]

Well each to their own style. I told my wife I would cut down on the total number of "project" items I have around the house, garage and barn.

I like the front loaders as they are easier on clothes, and spin out more water. I do a lot of blankets, towels and pads for my big dogs and can spin them super fast.

I would rather work on my boat or Bobcat than a washer.

 

[SHOZ]

Front-Load Washer Litigation

http://www.lieffcabraser.com/Case-Center/Front-Loading-Washer-Litigation.shtml

Quote:
Consumers Bring Suits Against Whirlpool, Sears, LG, and Bosch For Alleged Defects In Front-Load Washing Machines

Lieff Cabraser represents consumers in multiple states who have filed separate class action lawsuits against Whirlpool, Sears, LG, and Bosch over the presence of mold in their washing machines.

The complaints charge that certain front-load washers manufactured and sold by these companies are defective because they accumulate mold and cannot adequately clean themselves. As a result, the complaints allege, these washers require extraordinary and expensive actions by consumers including running extra cleaning cycles, leaving the door open between use, and wiping down the washer after every use with bleach. The complaints further assert that the manufacturers wrongly failed to disclose the machines' defect, and maintenance required as a result, prior to sale.

washer mold
Front Load Washer Lawsuits: Specific Allegations

Consumers charge that their front-load washers have serious design defects that:

cause them to accumulate mold, mildew, and other biological debris
render them unable to clean themselves of this mold, mildew, and biological debris
produce an odor (from mold) that permeates the washing machines and the consumers' homes
produce an odor on clothes and other items washed in the machines

The plaintiffs further allege that although they and other consumers have spent money for repairs and other purported remedies, none of those remedies have actually solved the defect, which is inherent to these particular washing machines' design.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Squirrelee
I've managed to collect 4-5 of the old style to keep in my parts box for future repairs.


The older style is getting harder to find, but they're out there. I bought a 5-pack on eBay last night, and I'll have them for in the future.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Donald
I like the front loaders as they are easier on clothes, and spin out more water. I do a lot of blankets, towels and pads for my big dogs and can spin them super fast.


Front loaders have advantages and disadvantages. Some people have problems with them NOT getting water out and leading to nasty mold problems. They are also more prone to leaking due to water having to be held back by a seal rather than sitting in a tub.

There actually seems to be a general trend back toward top-loading washers. There are now high efficiency and premium top-loaders that don't have some of the disadvantages of the front-loading design.

As with any piece of equipment, there's no perfect design...just one that requires different types of repair.

 

[Merkava_4]

Hokiefyd - I'm in the same boat as you, only in my case, it's the rubber isolation dampener that goes in between the two plastic couplers that's all chewed up. I'm assuming all those years of the transmission leaking fluid on that rubber dampener dissolved it to the point where it broke apart. I'm thinking the input shaft seal gave way years ago and that's why all the fluid leaked out. I'm gonna be ordering a new transmission and a motor coupler assembly today. The new coupler assembly comes with the new and improved couplers with the metal inserts just like you mentioned, but I don't know if the isolation dampener is the same design or not. Do you think I should use the old plastic couplers?

 

[Hokiefyd]

Merkava_4, you can replace the input seal of the transmission. You may consider doing that rather than replacing the whole transmission (unless you know that ALL of the oil leaked out and the transmission's been running dry). The seal is something like $5...and honestly, I'd probably prefer to keep a working transmission in it if I knew it was good. A new transmission should be fine, but nothing's manufactured perfectly...

The rubber dampener is the same I believe. The only difference is the plastic tri-spoke coupler ends. Given my experience, and apparently that of others as well, I'd certainly recommend the "old" coupler design instead of the "new" or "heavy duty" coupler design.

 

[Merkava_4]

Hokiefyd - Thanks for the advice on the couplers. The transmission is shot. It makes a very loud knocking noise whenever the washer is agitating, and just recently, it started knocking even louder on the spin cycle. I didn't change the seal on that transmission in time.

 

[Kory]

Like another poster recommended, if you go with a new washer, Speed Queen is the only way to go.

I bought a set last year and being curious popped the hood to see what the hype is about and adjust the washer water fill level with a flat head screw driver so it fills to the top of the washer. Yes they look stupid simple and will be bullet proof. I like that the washer is belt drive...

I was talking to a repair guy for a local shop that's very busy and sells all the major brands and he said Speed Queen is the only washer/dryer he can even recommend to anyone in good confidence anymore.

 

[Merkava_4]

Kory - do you recommend the SpeedQueen AWN412, or the AWN432S ?

The AWN432S has the automatic balancing system.

 

[UNC017]

From a purely mechanical standpoint, front-loaders are the absolute simplest of all. A motor (either direct or belt-coupled), and a tub. Bearings, water plumbing, a door seal.

That's it. No transmission, no brake, no clutch, no agitator.

The shortcoming with the one my wife and I bought (a low-end Kenmore/whirlpool HE2 from about 8 years ago) was connectors! The multi-pin connectors that carry the serial bus from the cycle controller to the motor controller, and from the front panel board to the cycle controller got iffy so it started throwing codes. I took it apart, put dielectric grease on every connector, and have had ZERO issues since then.

Oh, and my wife and daughter's hair scrunchies wind up in the drain pump inlet screen all the time, but that's easy to open and clean. I usually recover a few bucks in change when I do that job.

Yes, its "wrong" that it takes two computers and a power inverter board to run a washing machine (the power inverter drives the motor- its a 3-phase motor and the power board creates variable-frequency 3-phase to drive it forward, backward, and to ludicrous-speed for the spin cycle). But when it works, it works darn well.

The new high-efficiency toploaders are appealing because you don't have to bend over to load them, but none of them have simple mechanical timers anymore (they're computerized just like front-loaders), and they also have even more complicated transmissions than the old agitator style.

 

[spackard]

> and to ludicrous-speed for the spin cycle

What have I done?! My brains are going into my feet!



I own an old Whirlpool washer and dryer also. 25 years old, I guess. Nice design, and it's true about the coupler gives itself to save other components. Plus, those HD metal-sleeved couplers are a pain to pry off the plastic halves once pressed into place.

 

[edwardh1]

wonder why the industry ditched mechanical timers??? I think they are great

 

[JetStar]

I don't really have anything to add here as a self professed home appliance repair person, but they sure don't make them like they used to. My current ongoing project is a 8 year old whirlpool Cabrio HE top loader. At 5 years it needed new tub bearings, at 7 years a new drain pump. Knock on wood, the electronics are holding up. It uses a brushless outrunner DC motor with a plastic rotor. Rather ingenious, the plastic holds the perimeter magnets at transmits the torque to the shaft. No transmission involved. I think the tub bearings are getting noisy again. I'll need to do the trade-off when I decide to do something.