Dino oils for high output big blocks?

[msparks]

quote:

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Originally posted by JimG:


Here's the question: I switched my 600hp 509 to Kendall GT1 20W50 based on Mercruisers recommendation to run this oil in their HP1050sc's (at 100k each!!). How does this oil compare to Quicksilver 25W40, and is there another quality dino oil we should be considering?

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$100K engine

Only one answer to that.

As far as oil goes your temps are not that high, though I would bet you would see cooler temps with a synthetic.

Secondly, Oil analysis. I do this on an F150 4.6l engine that might cost $4,000 brand new. I wouldn't be able to sleep night not doing one a $100K one.

 

[JonS]

What are your oil pressures with the 20w-50 vs. Kendall 40w? I believe the Kendall is a higher quality oil compared to the Quicksilver. I have heard of the Quicksilver breaking down sooner than straight 40w's.
I was reading the new boat reviews for skiboats last night, and Indmar recommends straight 40 for its big blocks (496cu)and 15w-40 for the 350's. Big blocks will chew up oil fast.
Use a 50 weight if you need more oil pressure and starting temps are above 70f. Let it warm up good before hammering on it.

 

[JimG]

quote:

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Is this the stuff you and your buddies are currently using?

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Yes.

quote:

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As far as oil goes your temps are not that high, though I would bet you would see cooler temps with a synthetic.

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From the testing on OSO, doesn't seem to make a difference. Most seem to run around 210 after a hard run. Anything above that, we start to worry and re-think oil coolers...

quote:

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What are your oil pressures with the 20w-50 vs. Kendall 40w?

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The same with either. Around 60 at startup, 40 at idle cold, 50 running hot, 25 idle hot.

You guys are the experts... please have a look at the info Jelly posted and let me know what you think of this oil compared to Mercruiser based on this VOA:

Mercruiser VOA

Thanks!

 

[JimG]

quote:

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Use a 50 weight if you need more oil pressure and starting temps are above 70f. Let it warm up good before hammering on it.

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Always... I have to idle several hundred yards to get to open water in Clear Lake or Galveston Bay. Everything gets up to temp in that time.

 

[JimG]

quote:

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If you put that by-pass filter on you should be able to increase your drains indefinately and I would venture to guess well over 100 hrs.

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Thanks, but no looking to extend change intervals. Isn't AMSOIL a synthetic?

 

[msparks]

quote:

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Originally posted by JimG:

quote:

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If you put that by-pass filter on you should be able to increase your drains indefinately and I would venture to guess well over 100 hrs.

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Thanks, but no looking to extend change intervals. Isn't AMSOIL a synthetic?

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Yes Amsoil is a synthetic, not only extending drains but adding protection reducing heat, and giving more power.

Just thought is might be an option, which would help make synthetics more cost effective.

 

[Jelly]

quote:

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Originally posted by JimG:

quote:

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Is this the stuff you and your buddies are currently using?

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Yes.

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Jim,

The best thing I can tell you is that if this craft were mine, running twenty hour intervals, I'd use a Delo 400 type oil before the Mercruiser or Kendall stuff.

The Mercury product is an overpriced, inferior product (in comparison). A bunch of ZDDP in combination with regular passenger car detergent levels, low TBN, and sub-standard (relatively speaking) base oil doesn't add up to a great product in my book. Delo 400 15w-40 will kick it's butt!

In regards to the Kendall, the Delo uses a better base oil to start out with.

I'd look at:
Flash Point
Viscosity at the 210F you run
HT/HS viscosity (Delo is 4.3)
Sulfated Ash
TBN
Zinc

Kendall GT-1

Delo 400 15w-40

A great benefit of the HDEO's is they'll keep your engine exceptionally clean!!!!

In the end Jim, it's your boat, but just to sum up my feelings:

Delo 400 15w-40
K&N oil filter
Analysis at 20 hours (on second Delo interval) to determine if everything is ok and you're not suffering from fuel, water, or air filtering issues.

Good luck with whatever you choose and let us know how everything works out...

 

[salesrep]

I thik Schaeffer's 7000 Blend #700 Or racing oil#705 run real well in theses engines.

 

[JimG]

Thanks guys! It looks like Kendall Racing 20w-50 & M1-302 are a good choice.

 

[Jelly]

quote:

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Originally posted by JimG:
Thanks guys! It looks like Kendall Racing 20w-50 & M1-302 are a good choice.

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What made you stick with the oil and filter you're already using?

 

[msparks]

depending on actual "oil" temps not engine temps. I would say that the Amsoil 15w40 diesel and marine would work great for this application. The synthetic base stock has little if any VII's that would shear under the stress of that engine. If that doesn't work go up to the ARO 20w50.

If you put that by-pass filter on you should be able to increase your drains indefinately and I would venture to guess well over 100 hrs.

 

[JimG]

No convincing arguments otherwise.

The guys who run and build $100,000 motors run Kendall 20w50 or M1 15w50 and M1 filters (mostly, some run HP Frams). They run at 5500-6500rpm for hours at a time. That's good enough for me. I posted here to see if you guys could shed some light on their reasons.

Thanks for all your input.

Jim

 

[Steve S]

The builders probably get alot of their engines returned for refreshing or rebuilding so the builders see what works best for them .

 

[JonS]

Can they recommend a certain brand? And why is your mechanic using GT 40w and not the 20w-50? I wonder if any 20w-50 is acceptable?

 

[JimG]

Mercruiser's the big Gorilla, I guess they can do what they want.

Chevy specifies M1 by name for the 'Vette, so I guess it's common practice.

I don't know why Ed uses 40wt. Most of my buddies use 40wt, too. Bob Teague, (HP guru/test boat driver for Powerboat/engine builder) likes the 40wt, too. I started using the 20w50 based on Mercruisers recommendation, re: If it's good enough for Mercury Racing, it's good enough for me! Those motors are high-dollar! I know a guy who upgraded to a 600sci in his 30' Superboat. It was a $32k upgrade!

JimG

 

[JimG]

Update: I talked to the Mercury Racing tech guy last week, and now Mercruiser is recommending Kendall 20w50 on the 600sci ($35k), the 850sci (80k) as well as the 1075sci (over $100k).

I'm four hours away from an oil change, so I'll post the results of my UOA when I get it.

BTW: Our local Mercruiser Racing mechanic has a couple of 598ci 780hp single carb beauties in his shop to be installed in a big Fountain. I asked him what oil the owner was going to use... Kendall GT1 40wt. The mechanic has a store room full of the stuff...

JimG

 

[454MAG]

I have had great luck running M1 15-50 in my BBC but I an not at the power level you are speaking of. I run it very hard and change it btwn 80-100 hrs. It still looks new at 40 hrs. I have not done a UOA but oil press is excellent even at hot idle after a hard run. A freind had excellent results running Valvoline VR-1 20-50 in his fountain with a built 502 changing at 20 hrs. He now runs M4xt 20-50 at engine builders advice.

 

[wileyE]

Kendall had a huge cult following in desert racing for years. Many builders still swear by it. It was green before anyone ever heard of GC btw, LOL.

There's nothing on wheels that can really compare with the hard continued load that those big boats and props put on a motor. The rod bearings really take a beating, a job where viscosity has proven to be the best medicine. If they haven't been converted to dry sumps those huge crankthrows can whip that oil up pretty bad, this is where I think the 50w kendall (pumped up with anti foam add) may be a better choice than the 40w?

 

[JimG]

These are all wet-sump motors. I like that 50wt Kendall, might try it sometime.

 

[Kompressor]

I have a resonable amount of experience with big blocks in hot-boats, I have found 40wt works great in milder big blocks and 50wt works great for higher HP/rpm applications. I have tried 20w50 and noted it didn't maintain nearly the oil pressure as 40wt after a hard run (this was in a mild 460 jetboat). I use Chevron Delo 40wt for my jetboat and currently Brad Penn 50wt for my v-drive, but I'll likely switch to Valvoline VR1 50wt when my Brad Penn is gone. For I/O's I wouldn't discount a good HDEO 15w40 or M1 15w50, but I think mono's are better for jet and v-drive applications (severe duty).