Dino oils for high output big blocks?

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J

JimG

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Sep 1, 2004
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Location
Dickinson, TEXAS
I run with a group of performance boaters on the Gulf Coast of Texas. All of our engines are based on BBC's, ranging in horsepower from 400 to over 600hp. Most of the guys run Kendall 40wt, and change every 20 hours. (One fella with BRAND NEW HP525EFi's just changed his oil for the first time, and went with Quicksilver 25W40.)

Here's the question: I switched my 600hp 509 to Kendall GT1 20W50 based on Mercruisers recommendation to run this oil in their HP1050sc's (at 100k each!!). How does this oil compare to Quicksilver 25W40, and is there another quality dino oil we should be considering?

None of us have ever had an oil related issue, and the general consensus among our group is that synthetics are not cost effective for 20 hour oil changes. We use around 80 quarts per season...

What about Kendall 50wt Racing oil?
Thanks in advance!

JimG
 
JimG,

Good afternoon sir. Boating is something I've always loved yet I'm just recently taking the time and interest to truly learn about them (which the vast majority out there do not do), such as varying hull shapes, what affects performance, and proper craft handling in inclement conditions.

Do you visit the OffshoreOnly forums very much?

I take it you're running 93 octane?

Not saying I'm better than anyone else, but realize most people out there (not including BiTOG
grin.gif
), be it in real-life or on a forum, have a very small knowledge base in regards to engine oils...

If mine, I'd change to a top-rung HDEO 15w-40 (Delo, Delvac, Long-Life) in combination with a K&N filter given the style in which you most likely operate your "go-fast"...
 
Thanks for your reply, Jelly!

I, too, love all types of boats. I currently own three. I have an old Trojan flybridge cruiser with a Chrysler 318. It has over 1200 hours on it, and runs like a champ! I change the oil every 25 hours and run Pennzoil LL with a Wix filter. I also have a 1970 Donzi 18 2+3 with a Holman Moody 351W and Volvo drive. I use Motorcraft 40wt and a Wix filter on 25 hour oil changes.


My go-fast boat is a 1994 Thoroughbred 26' with a 600hp 509 and a Bravo drive. It's a hoot, and capable of 80+. I use a Mobil One filter in it, and we all run 93 octane gas.

I spend lot's of time on OSO, as well as Speedwake, Boatfreaks, the Donzi Registry and MidWestBoatParty. I'm also a licensed captain and spend over 200 hours on the water per year, in all types of boats.

Kendall has an almost mythical allegiance among boaters. Keith Eickart recommends Kendall 20W50 for his $40k+ engines, as does Ritchie Zul. When Mercruiser came out with the HP1050SC, and recommended the Kendall, I was amazed!

Take care!

JimG
 
I have owned a few boats with big block chevrolet engines. The higher performance ,the engine the more the oil is abused. Then on top of that marine use is brutal on the oil. A heavy duty engine oil or a racing oil should be used. It would be hard to judge when an oil change is needed with out an oil anaylsis . There are some anaylsis' posted on a few boat engines ,a real good oil anaylsis with Amsoil diesel marine 15w/40 oil.
 
I would not use the quicksilver 25w-40. I also would not use 15w-40 in a big block (to thin). I would stick to the straight 40 weight. There are many other 40w's out there such as Valvoline racing, Chevron Delo 400, Pennzoil, Citgo ect.
 
quote:
It would be hard to judge when an oil change is needed with out an oil anaylsis .
Click to expand...
I change every 20 hours. Some of the guys with twins stretch it to 25 hours. You couldn't get them to go longer!
grin.gif


I change at ten hours when I've run in a poker run. We run at 4500-5500rpm for extended periods. Oil temps get to 210 or so.
 
Jons posted:
quote:
I would not use the quicksilver 25w-40. I also would not use 15w-40 in a big block (to thin). I would stick to the straight 40 weight. There are many other 40w's out there such as Valvoline racing, Chevron Delo 400, Pennzoil, Citgo ect.
Click to expand...
Why not the Quicksilver? And what about Kendall 40wt?

Thanks!
 
quote:
Originally posted by JonS:
I also would not use 15w-40 in a big block (to thin). I would stick to the straight 40 weight.
Click to expand...
I'm confused?

"Old-School" HDEO 15w-40's had problems keeping up oil pressure/maintaining viscosity and keeping engines clean...that's why many switched over to SAE 40's at the time. I have no issues whatsoever with current CI-4+ formulations.

Water infiltration, fuel contamination, or a leaky air intake are all issues in the marine environment, and oil analysis can ensure you that your engine (Ok...exhaust system, carbs/EFI, and air filter) is performing properly.

quote:
Originally posted by JimG:
I change every 20 hours. We run at 4500-5500rpm for extended periods. Oil temps get to 210 or so.
Click to expand...
As aforementioned, I'd run the CI-4+ 15w-40 of your choice on an initial twenty-hour interval and get an analysis done to confirm everything is doing alright...

P.S. - With your operating conditions, I'd highly suggest making the change to K&N from the M1 you're currently running.
 
quote:
P.S. - With your operating conditions, I'd highly suggest making the change to K&N from the M1 you're currently running.
Click to expand...
Why? I thought the K&N was a paper filter? I switched to M1 because I was told the synthetic media would not absorb water.
 
quote:
Originally posted by JimG:
I change every 20 hours. Some of the guys with twins stretch it to 25 hours. You couldn't get them to go longer! I change at ten hours when I've run in a poker run.
Click to expand...
That's so foreign to me as I'm used to 100 hour intervals on the four-stroke outboards attached to the small, capable (proper boat selection with a knowledgeable pilot can get said craft operating quite well in rough water) craft I love so much.

offtopic.gif
I believe I'm different than most out there:
1. Realize the capabilities on small, inexpensive craft.
1. Actually enjoy talking about other boats as well!

It probably won't interest you much, but check out this book:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...f=sr_1_2/104-9176250-7809522?v=glance&s=books
 
quote:
I believe I'm different than most out there:
1. Realize the capabilities on small, inexpensive craft.
1. Actually enjoy talking about other boats as well!

It probably won't interest you much, but check out this book:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...f=sr_1_2/104-9176250-7809522?v=glance&s=books
Click to expand...
I love all types of boats! (One day I'll own a single-screw diesel trawler) And I've owned all manner of small outboard boats: 'glass, wood and aluminum and plastic (I have a Walker Bay 8).

And why wouldn't that book interest me? I actually own it, among many other books about seamanship, sailing, marlinspike, weather, racing, etc.
 
quote:
Originally posted by JimG:
I love all types of boats! (One day I'll own a single-screw diesel trawler)

And why wouldn't that book interest me?
Click to expand...
I have the latest issue of PassageMaker sitting right next to my computer.

Well, to be it vaguely, because most people don't embrace small craft and/or realize the capabilities of them in anything other than calm conditions...
 
I subscribe to Passagemaker. Great magazine. I rigged my Trojan based on many ideas I got from those trawler guys...

Back on topic: Why K&N over M1? K&N flows better, but M1 filters better? Both Champion filters. I'm open to suggestions...
 
quote:
Originally posted by JimG:
Back on topic
Click to expand...
Agree.

The water absorption qualities of your oil filter media is a moot point.

I'd use the K&N for this kind of operating to ensure great flow at high rpms. The micron filtering level is also a moot point (to a certain extent). Full-flow filters are there to catch large items.

Any level of condensation buildup at acceptable levels will be burnt off during operation.

Any more and I'd be looking for cooling and exhaust system leaks...
 
OK, good answer!

Any idea why those high dollar engines come with recommendations to run Kendall? And for the guys running Kendall, is 40wt better than the 20w50 in this application? What about the 50wt? (The 50wt is readily available from Autozone.)
 
quote:
Originally posted by JimG:
OK, good answer!

Any idea why those high dollar engines come with recommendations to run Kendall? And for the guys running Kendall, is 40wt better than the 20w50 in this application? What about the 50wt? (The 50wt is readily available from Autozone.)
Click to expand...
Example:
Why did (and still does) Mercury always say not to use synthetics and then come out with their own 25w-40?

See here: http://www.mercurymarine.com/fueloil_recommendation_faqs#1124

"IMPORTANT: The use of non-detergent oils, multi-viscosity oils (other than Quicksilver 25W-40 or a good quality 20W-40 or 20W-50), synthetic oils, low quality oils or oils that contain solid additives are specifically NOT recommended."

And here:
http://home.comcast.net/~markblake/mercoil.jpg

As with the Kendall stuff, I have no idea why people and manufacturers make the recommendations they do...you'd have to ask them. I just go on what I believe based on in the field experience and a little understanding (gained through BiTOG and a couple books on the subject) of engine oil.

The only place I see SAE 40 being better is in regards to absolute shear stability - the stuff just plain won't lose viscosity unless contaminated.

Modern CI-4+ 15w-40 HDEO's can hold their own though, and perform great on the twenty hour intervals you use.

When you're talking about the 40 vs. 50 weights, are you referring to just Kendall or Kendall vs. others?
 
quote:
Most of the guys run Kendall 40wt
Click to expand...
Because of this...

And these guys are VERY experienced boaters with high dollar engines running at high rpms. ANd they swear by it. I'm just curious if there is something I don't know...
 
Jim,

When you chat with these guys on the boating forums about Kendall, why do they tell you they are running it?

Why do they swear by it? What makes it so good?
 
The guys I'm talking about are not on the forums, (those forum guys swear by M1 15w50 & M1-302 filters), they are my own runnin' buddies. They represent about 15 expensive high performance motors, and all run Kendall or Quicksilver 25w40 (the motors still under Mercruiser warranty). The O'Reilly auto parts store closest to Clear Lake special orders Kendall 40 wt just for the local high perf boaters. The manager sells 5 cases a week to the locals. Says they won't buy anything else.

quote:
When you chat with these guys on the boating forums about Kendall, why do they tell you they are running it?

Why do they swear by it? What makes it so good?
Click to expand...
I was hoping you guys could tell me that, based on my original questions: How does Quicksilver compare to Kendall? What about running Kendall straight 50? And what's a good alternative? (you gave me a good suggestion on that...)


Jim
 
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