Different countries using different viscosities

[FCD]

I've been browsing through tons of bitog threads as of lately and i've noticed a big split between Americans and Europeans, Like some North Americans being scared to death by anything with a 20w on the label and people thinking that you never would need a w50 oil for any reason ever, it seems that Americans generally use thinner grades of oil than the rest of the world, in the US 10w30 seems to be the rule of thumb and anything more is considered "thick" , meanwhile in Europe 10w40 seems to be the most common grade , i've hardly ever seen 0w20 or 5w20 for example , even here in Southern Spain where temperatures are fairly similar to the Southwest in the US, 20w50 is what most classic car owners use and it's widely available still and you won't have trouble finding it, why do you think there is this discrepancy where the rest of the world tends to use heavier grades of oil than north america? Is it the cars we drive? Climate? Whatever post your thoughts

 

[tig1]

I used 10-40 in the 60s and early 70s. Very old school. Started using 5-20 in the late 70s and for the most part, and haven't looked back.

 

[Dyusik]

in US the lexus IS250 specced for 10w/5w30 is now 0w/5w-20.
Zero changes to the engine that would call for different oil. From Russia with love of OE : 5w40. One example. Fords and their 5w20/5w50...

Then you have people using a 70wt by adding Lucas OS [censored] to a sump of 40wt oil, and all is well

I say grab a temp chart from each decade of motor vehicle history, delete discrepancies, and use that.

 

[mjoekingz28]

It may be a lubricant issue. I dont think there are two oils that sre alike between the two continents.





What about fuel? What octane is your gasolines?


Here in the SouthEast, 87,89,93 with up to 10% ethanol is very common.

 

[gfh77665]

Finally, many on the this site are beginning to understand thin and ultra thin oil use in the US is being driven by CAFE.

I never bought into to the thin oil hype. I regard 10w30 as a medium viscosity oil, and I have used it all my life, with no plans to change.

 

[sasilverbullet]

I would hope that the manufacturers did some research about why they recommend thicker oils in Europe.

Some factors maybe?
1. Blend of fuel - does their fuel dilute oil more?
2. Temperature ranges - are their temperature ranges more extreme?
3. High speed autobahns - most folks drive with the foot to the floor
4. Smaller engine size - smaller engine sizes pushing cars at high rates of speed.

What do you'all think?

 

[UNC017]

Thicker viscosities have their place in extreme conditions and in some engines, but with improvements in other areas (HTHS, VI, oxidation resistance, modern additive packages, etc.), it no longer has to be used as a crutch just to adequately protect parts in ordinary conditions. Why the rest of the world apart from the US hasn't cued into that is a bit of a mystery. My hunch is inertia. In the US, there is regulatory pressure via CAFE to stop using excessively thick oils, so we pay the price needed for the oil suppliers to change their product lines accordingly. That pressure doesn't exist to the same degree elsewhere, so the same old thing that always worked continues to soldier onward... and does no harm. And maybe even provides a little more margin for error.

But with all the thousands and thousands of 200k, 300k+ mile engines using 5w20, its clear that thin works just fine in engines without particular viscosity needs also (wouldn't run it in the BMW engine type that barely holds together with Xw60 oil, for example....)

 

[FCD]

the octane of the fuels is almost the same , except in most places we have less choices , in Spain it's either 95 RON or 98 RON ( 87 and 91/93 AKI ) , And some places in Europe have 100 or 101 or 102 RON fuels, but our gas and oil prices are MUCH higher, the cheapest it's been here as of late is about 5 USD / Gallon, but in some places like Norway despite being a oil rich country you will pay around 10 Dollars a gallon, a top tier full synthetic like Mobil 1 is about twice as much as it's in the US

 

[barryh]

In the UK 0w20 practically rules itself out on price and availability. It's hard to find with some major retailers not stocking it at all and when you do find it the price is horrendous. £52 for 5 L was the lowest I found and one major online retailer had prices up to £95 for 5L.

To a much lesser extent XW30 oils are more expensive than the same brand XW40 oils.

It's almost 40 years since I used 20W50. All my cars since 1977 have called for 10W40 and more recently 5W40 or 5W30. I've not yet bought any 5W30 though.

 

[FCD]

My Capri calls for 10w40 or 20w50 so that's what i use , 20w50 preferrably because of the scorching heat of Mallorca

 

[Nick1994]

"As thin as possible, as thick as necessary"

 

[69GTX]

The US has Calif/CAFE which drives a lot of the issue. I don't think much of the world is yet concerned about that last 0.1% of increased fuel mileage when they have much bigger issues to worry about.

The US also has a very wide temperature extreme from South Texas and Florida in summer to Montana/North Dakota/Alaska in the winter. Much easier for auto mfgs to spec one thinner size to fit all. I drove my 1997 Lincoln 4.6 to 232K miles on the 5w30 recommended oil. My 2002 has the identical engine but is spec'd for 5w-20 due to CAFE standards. I'm sticking with what worked before.

 

[BrocLuno]

I think there a lot of reasons. Europe has many small cars with manual transmissions and lots of drivers that think they are either Mario Andretti, or a trucker (and are in 4th by 15 mph...). Both cases need higher HTHS for protection

In North America, lots of automatic transmissions and drivers that "cruise" as a driving style. Big engines under light stress. Some will never get anywhere near redline in their entire life... So oil has a somewhat easier life.

But, we do have snow and cold. It even freezes in Florida, so cold start is an issue. 10w30 covered most of these issues well for many decades.

Now, engines are made better. CNC machining and newer tooling in general means better fits. And newer metallurgy means better parts wear. So the engine can get by with a bit less viscosity.

Yeah, in the desert southwest we do need to step up the oil game in summer. But we don't have to start in Norway in winter. So the synthetics that do well in 125*F heat, mostly do well in the middle of America in winter too.

Used to be you changed oil often enough that you had a fall/winter fill and a spring/summer fill. But with longer OCI, there is need to make one oil do it's job year round. So 5w30 for lots of folks. 0w30 for others. And for really well fit engines, 0W-20 will do during warranty period. After that, you're on your own anyway. So do what seems best. Listen to the motor. Do UOS's and read-up.

Modern oils are good. Better than what we had 20 years ago. So I think the days of 20W-50 for cars is gone here. Still in bikes though.

And of course, with Uncle Sam breathing down the MFG's necks for Corp Average Fuel Economy (CAFE), they will take even 0.1 MPG into account. It adds up on millions sold. Slippery'er thinner oils are doing their part

Until they get to my driveway

 

[UNC017]

Originally Posted By: 69GTX

The US also has a very wide temperature extreme from South Texas and Florida in summer to Montana/North Dakota/Alaska in the winter.


I would argue that WEST Texas is hotter than South Texas or Florida, and Arizona/Nevada is hotter than either of the other two, but its a minor point. The US has temperature extremes that can only be exceeded in a few places in the world. There are arts of the Middle East and north Africa are slightly hotter than the hottest parts of Nevada and Death Valley, and obviously the poles are colder on average than the continental US but storms bring polar temps down to the Dakotas, Minnesota, etc. from time to time. Europe is positively benign in comparison, especially when comparing hotter temps, so it boggles the mind why they're still clinging Xw50 and Xw60. In addition to milder temperatures, I'm not sure you can find me ANY spot in Europe where you can honestly maintain 80 MPH for 8-10 hours nonstop (apart from fuel breaks), which is exactly what you do on Interstate 10 from just outside San Antonio to El Paso, just to name one example

 

[chrisri]

European engines require same viscosity in EU and US. Difference is only in specifications, fuel is different.
Main difference in viscosity is with US car makers. American cars are sold in small volume in Europe (only Jeep IIRC), so there is little need to cater market with extra low viscosity oils.
And no, Focus or Insignia are not American cars.
There are many low viscosity oils on market here like A1/B1, A5/B5, C1, C2. Just not many xw20.

 

[Kuato]

I agree it's Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards set by the US Government.

0w20 has been shown to increase mileage by some minuscule amount with smaller vehicles in short trip situations. When you multiply that small amount by the 253 million vehicles on US roads, or by the millions of vehicles sold by manufacturers each year, the fuel savings assist in achieving the CAFE restrictions.

0w20, IMO, protects just as well in many applications. But a thicker oil will offer more protection for vehicle's engine when higher power demands are made. That's why I think that Toyota has the information in the owner's manual that 20 weight can be used, but that a heavier oil should be used to insure protection during high speed, mountainous, towing or high temperature operations. Their engineers are concerned with longevity.

The US specified oils are thinner than the same vehicle elsewhere in the world. Without CAFE I think the specifications would be the same.

 

[Merkava_4]

I'm still not convinced that an engine specified to run 0W-20 is too tight to run 10w30.

As if the oil won't fit in the bearings or something.

 

[69GTX]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: 69GTX

The US also has a very wide temperature extreme from South Texas and Florida in summer to Montana/North Dakota/Alaska in the winter.


I would argue that WEST Texas is hotter than South Texas or Florida, and Arizona/Nevada is hotter than either of the other two, but its a minor point.....


That could be so. It looks like California and Arizona record the hottest days (and most >100 deg F days) each year. Texas didn't make that list. Florida and Hawaii lead the list for highest average temps during the year. Texas makes the top ten places for number of days from 1995 to 2005 with the highest temperature in the USA

US temperature extremes

 

[fdcg27]

I think that the simple explanation is that most engines will run happily and wear well on a variety of grades.
We've had plenty of cars here for which 5W-20 has been the recommended grade for more than a decade. OW-20 is merely a logical extension of this. Well prior to that, 20W-20 was a widely used and recommended grade.
The fairly thin 10w30 grade was the overwhelming recommendation for cars sold in this market for decades. Few manufacturers recommended even a 10W-40 and some actively advised against the use of that grade.
In contrast, the 20W-50 grade was originally developed for a very specific shared-sump application and then spread like kudzu through the European car industry.
Europeans seem to be more accustomed to and comfortable with thicker oils than are most of us here.
OTOH, it is amusing to see people on this site who live in relatively moderate climates deciding that they must use 0W-XX oils.
Nothing wrong either way. The engines won't know the difference and the engines will typically outlast the vehicle in which they're installed.

 

[OneEyeJack]

If Xx-20 is for CAFE standards all it has to be is "good enough". There's nothing there about being better than Xx-30 or Xx-40 in any way except for this idea that it's some minuscule fraction of a percentage better in fuel economy. This may in fact only be important to a manufacturer that is concerned with hundreds of thousands or millions of vehicles. If "good enough" leaves room for argument or uncertainty and that possible minuscule fraction of a percentage of improvement in fuel economy for one vehicle is not worth exploring then don't an Xx-20 engine oil. Your warranty will not be effected and life will go on.