Diesel Focus

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
These are the prices near me. These are likely the wider spreads around. At the prices get closer the diesel just gets better in terms of cost ownership/fuel mileage


Right. Around here the prices fall within pennies recently, once cc discounts and surcharges are considered.


Are there rewards credit cards that work for diesel? Mine specifically says "gasoline" but maybe some are for "motor fuel"...

 

[DrDusty86]

Bill,
Come time to sell the diesel I bet it would bring more than it's gas sister.

 

[antiqueshell]

VW sales say otherwise when it comes to diesel sales of passenger vehicles in the US, sales have been steadily gaining steam over the past decade and have exploded in the past five years. VW says they think that diesel vehicles will be at least 25% of total sales in the US soon.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
Bill,
Come time to sell the diesel I bet it would bring more than it's gas sister.


Depends if all the maintenance has been done and if it passes the dyno smog test.

A gasser only needs to pass the OBDii test.

I doubt a modern diesel will make 300k without the DPF and cats being replaced. How much do those cost when compared to a rare cat replacement on a normal vehicle?

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
Lack of interest I don't buy it. Look at the VW TDI, it sells and sells alot for VW. It also has a cultish following.There is a guy on this forum with a Jetta???? diesel PD motor and a 5spd mt. he is claiming over 55mpg IIRC and has about 300k miles on her. DARN good if you ask me.


It's not me. I'm only at 280k, and I only started getting back over 50mpg now that I stopped driving 80mph. Last tank was 51mpg.

 

[antiqueshell]

As those diesel cars grow older I can promise you that some of those systems will be deactivated by the owners in states that do not have emissions (of which there are quite a few) so it isn't hard to believe that plenty of the more recent diesels designs will last to 300k.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
I doubt a modern diesel will make 300k without the DPF and cats being replaced. How much do those cost when compared to a rare cat replacement on a normal vehicle?


I thought it wasn't that uncommon to replace gasser catalytic convertors by 300k? Especially now that they monitor cat efficency.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
Lack of interest I don't buy it. Look at the VW TDI, it sells and sells alot for VW. It also has a cultish following.There is a guy on this forum with a Jetta???? diesel PD motor and a 5spd mt. he is claiming over 55mpg IIRC and has about 300k miles on her. DARN good if you ask me.


It's not me. I'm only at 280k, and I only started getting back over 50mpg now that I stopped driving 80mph. Last tank was 51mpg.


Talking about NEW TDis with the emissions that required VW to NOT sell anything for a year to implement.

Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
I doubt a modern diesel will make 300k without the DPF and cats being replaced. How much do those cost when compared to a rare cat replacement on a normal vehicle?


I thought it wasn't that uncommon to replace gasser catalytic convertors by 300k? Especially now that they monitor cat efficency.


Can only speak for model years 1986, 1993, 1996, 2003, 2005 and 2007. All of those have gone past 300k with no emission related issues. The 1996 did need a single O2 sensor around 250k.

Don't have anything newer in the family coming up to 300k that I can comment on. But I have seen a few DPF that needed replacement WELL before 150k.

And those were not cheap at all.

I will say if I had a newer diesel I'd be making sure I ran the low sulfur EPA fuel EVERY TIME!

Bill

 

[surfstar]

currently diesel price locally = unleaded 87

I've seen as high as .20 premium (but thats only ~5% difference and the diesels I'd buy get 20%+ better mpg)

http://www.motherearthnews.com/green-tra...x#axzz2ZY1uP6Ta

http://www.dieselforum.org/files/dmfile/20130311_CD_UMTRITCOFinalReport_dd2017.pdf

"A new study released today found that diesel vehicles saved owners between $2,000 to $6,000 in total ownership costs during a three to five year period when compared to similar gasoline vehicles, according to data compiled by the University of Michigan Transportation Research Institute."

 

[Bill in Utah]

3 to five years (45k/75k) is still WELL before things get expensive.

What is a "vehicle" in the U of M eyes? Truck? Car? SUV?

Okay read the paper. They are banking on the diesels getting quite a bit more resale and if those numbers don't happen then their results are going to a LOT different.

Quote:
Gas engined F250 has better resale than diesel.


Quote:
Finally, fuel costs are the second largest contributor to TCO and higher diesel prices can also have a negative effect on TCO if the gap between the price gasoline and diesel fuel is wide


Also the paper is over 2 years old.

Bill

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: eljefino


Are there rewards credit cards that work for diesel? Mine specifically says "gasoline" but maybe some are for "motor fuel"...


My Pentagon Federal CU card has never NOT given me a refund.

 

[zloveraz]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
As those diesel cars grow older I can promise you that some of those systems will be deactivated by the owners in states that do not have emissions (of which there are quite a few) so it isn't hard to believe that plenty of the more recent diesels designs will last to 300k.


41 states require vehicle emissions testing, not many left...

 

[zloveraz]

The cost of diesel in my state is equal to premium most of the time.

Until the US improves the quality of Diesel fuel it will continue to be a challenge. It's actually easier to design a diesel for the EU with the current emissions requirements because of the fuel quality.

Just ask Mazda it's why the Mazda 6 diesel was delayed for our market and released in Europe long ago.

 

[E365]

If the Cruze diesel sells well I'd fully expect to see a diesel Focus in the US. If not, we probably won't. I think it's as simple as that for now.

There was an interview with a Ford exec. not too long ago asking why no diesels in the US. The answer boiled down to cost. The estimate was something like upper $20,000 range to start. I guess the euro Ford diesel engines are made in the UK which apparently has high labor costs. They just figured it won't sell well because of the cost so they haven't bothered. That obviously will need to be addressed.

I'm seriously considering a diesel Cruze for my next car, but I'd actually prefer a diesel Focus (hatchback).

 

[simple_gifts]

Stating the obvious, but to make a per gallon price comparison in the summer in the northeast is a bit unfair, especially when purchasing a car that you may want to keep for 10 years. Check back in February when diesel is routinely significantly more expensive.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: zloveraz
The cost of diesel in my state is equal to premium most of the time.

Until the US improves the quality of Diesel fuel it will continue to be a challenge. It's actually easier to design a diesel for the EU with the current emissions requirements because of the fuel quality.

Just ask Mazda it's why the Mazda 6 diesel was delayed for our market and released in Europe long ago.



Our gasoline is garbage (prevents use of lean stratified charge and low saps oils), but our diesel is 15ppm sulfur, and hydrotreated fuels generally have decent cetane.

 

[A_Harman]

I think US and European diesel fuel Sulfur levels are comparable, but European diesel tends to have higher Cetane, which goes a long way to reduce combustion noise, and to allow higher engine speeds, which are important in a passenger car diesel. Lower Sulfur content was necessary starting in 2007 to assure good durability of particulate traps when they were introduced.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
I doubt a modern diesel will make 300k without the DPF and cats being replaced. How much do those cost when compared to a rare cat replacement on a normal vehicle?


I thought it wasn't that uncommon to replace gasser catalytic convertors by 300k? Especially now that they monitor cat efficency.


Can only speak for model years 1986, 1993, 1996, 2003, 2005 and 2007. All of those have gone past 300k with no emission related issues. The 1996 did need a single O2 sensor around 250k.

Don't have anything newer in the family coming up to 300k that I can comment on. But I have seen a few DPF that needed replacement WELL before 150k. [/quote]

I think I've spent $2k in emissions costs to fix my VW over they years. Intake flap twice (anti-shudder valve and EGR-related device, rolled into one, $500 apiece), O2 sensor, EGR work at least 3 times before complete removal. Last year was the first year in about six that it didn't fail emissions for some reason; right now I'm trying to figure out what is broken causing the CEL... Fuel savings has paid for my repairs, so it's been a wash; still a nice car to drive though.

 

[zzyzzx]

Marketing department won't allow them to sell anything with a 0-60 in less than 10 seconds. That's one of the reasons why we don't get the high MPG cars that other people enjoy (and we had in the 80's).

 

[zloveraz]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: zloveraz
The cost of diesel in my state is equal to premium most of the time.

Until the US improves the quality of Diesel fuel it will continue to be a challenge. It's actually easier to design a diesel for the EU with the current emissions requirements because of the fuel quality.

Just ask Mazda it's why the Mazda 6 diesel was delayed for our market and released in Europe long ago.



Our gasoline is garbage (prevents use of lean stratified charge and low saps oils), but our diesel is 15ppm sulfur, and hydrotreated fuels generally have decent cetane.



Actually low cetane between the EU and NA is what caused the problems (delays) for Mazda.