Why no diesel Focus in the US? The focus in Europe gets an estimated 67mpg hwy with a 2.0T CRD/6spd MT. it has a top speed of 134mph and 0-60 in 8.9 sec. I would take this over the TDI VW here in the states. Is it possible that Ford will bring it over since chevy brought over a Cruze diesel?
Diesel Focus
- Thread starter DrDusty86
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While we're at it, I'll take one of these:
http://gas2.org/2013/03/21/forbidden-fruit-57-mpg-diesel-wagon-is-the-mazda-6-we-want/
Manufacturers won't bring diesels and wagons to the US, b/c of 'lack of interest', but something like a Smart or Spark is seen as good?
http://gas2.org/2013/03/21/forbidden-fruit-57-mpg-diesel-wagon-is-the-mazda-6-we-want/
Manufacturers won't bring diesels and wagons to the US, b/c of 'lack of interest', but something like a Smart or Spark is seen as good?
I'm pretty sure it all has to do with the stupid EPA requirements on diesels. I bet money that the Euro versions don't have a device that meters urine into the exhaust.
Lack of interest I don't buy it. Look at the VW TDI, it sells and sells alot for VW. It also has a cultish following.There is a guy on this forum with a Jetta???? diesel PD motor and a 5spd mt. he is claiming over 55mpg IIRC and has about 300k miles on her. DARN good if you ask me.
NOx, CARB & math, oh my!
Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
Lack of interest I don't buy it. Look at the VW TDI, it sells and sells alot for VW. It also has a cultish following.There is a guy on this forum with a Jetta???? diesel PD motor and a 5spd mt. he is claiming over 55mpg IIRC and has about 300k miles on her. DARN good if you ask me.
i'm guessing member tornadored: golf tdi with some performance mods....
they are some members that drove the focus diesel in europe. search is your friend....
Lack of interest I don't buy it. Look at the VW TDI, it sells and sells alot for VW. It also has a cultish following.There is a guy on this forum with a Jetta???? diesel PD motor and a 5spd mt. he is claiming over 55mpg IIRC and has about 300k miles on her. DARN good if you ask me.
i'm guessing member tornadored: golf tdi with some performance mods....
they are some members that drove the focus diesel in europe. search is your friend....
Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
Lack of interest I don't buy it. Look at the VW TDI, it sells and sells alot for VW. It also has a cultish following.There is a guy on this forum with a Jetta???? diesel PD motor and a 5spd mt. he is claiming over 55mpg IIRC and has about 300k miles on her. DARN good if you ask me.
Not lack of interest, it is likely the domestic oil and car makers lobbying to prevent small, high mileage cars from becoming very attractive because BOTH cut into the profits of both these industries in the USA which are only interested in big short term profits at the expense of everything else.
Lack of interest I don't buy it. Look at the VW TDI, it sells and sells alot for VW. It also has a cultish following.There is a guy on this forum with a Jetta???? diesel PD motor and a 5spd mt. he is claiming over 55mpg IIRC and has about 300k miles on her. DARN good if you ask me.
Not lack of interest, it is likely the domestic oil and car makers lobbying to prevent small, high mileage cars from becoming very attractive because BOTH cut into the profits of both these industries in the USA which are only interested in big short term profits at the expense of everything else.
JHZR2
Staff member
In the USA, we classify an 12 MPG ga$$er as a "partial zero" emissions vehicle, while we classify a 50 MPG diesel as a "gross polluter". Pretty sure the tonnages dont work right that way... But just shows how short sighted and lacking in rational thought that we are.
Of course when one state (CA) is an economy that is in the top five in the world amongst nations, it has a lot of pull.
Of course when one state (CA) is an economy that is in the top five in the world amongst nations, it has a lot of pull.
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2014-chevrolet-cruze-diesel-photos-and-info-news
Cruze diesel now on sale
Cruze diesel now on sale
Originally Posted By: sasilverbullet
I'm pretty sure it all has to do with the stupid EPA requirements on diesels. I bet money that the Euro versions don't have a device that meters urine into the exhaust.
I don't mind the SCR systems on diesels, it's the EGR and DPF systems that hurt fuel economy. SCR allows injection timings to be advanced, allowing the engines to make better fuel economy. The high level of NOx in the exhaust can then be cleaned up by SCR.
Euro emissions standards are less stringent on NOx than the US EPA's. If the US would adopt Euro standards, more of those European diesels could come over.
I'm pretty sure it all has to do with the stupid EPA requirements on diesels. I bet money that the Euro versions don't have a device that meters urine into the exhaust.
I don't mind the SCR systems on diesels, it's the EGR and DPF systems that hurt fuel economy. SCR allows injection timings to be advanced, allowing the engines to make better fuel economy. The high level of NOx in the exhaust can then be cleaned up by SCR.
Euro emissions standards are less stringent on NOx than the US EPA's. If the US would adopt Euro standards, more of those European diesels could come over.
Originally Posted By: sasilverbullet
I'm pretty sure it all has to do with the stupid EPA requirements on diesels. I bet money that the Euro versions don't have a device that meters urine into the exhaust.
I'm pretty sure you're wrong: http://www.at.ford.com/news/cn/Pages/FordexpandsECOneticTechnologylineup.aspx
You realize that Europe has stringent emissions requirements, right? And than NoX requirements are fleet averages? The reason Ford isn't bringing these in has nothing to do with the EPA...
I'm pretty sure it all has to do with the stupid EPA requirements on diesels. I bet money that the Euro versions don't have a device that meters urine into the exhaust.
I'm pretty sure you're wrong: http://www.at.ford.com/news/cn/Pages/FordexpandsECOneticTechnologylineup.aspx
You realize that Europe has stringent emissions requirements, right? And than NoX requirements are fleet averages? The reason Ford isn't bringing these in has nothing to do with the EPA...
IMO, if the diesel Cruze (and Mazda vehicles - I think a diesel 6 is supposed to be released this fall?) does well, the floodgates will open.
Right now, most car companies believe that diesels are a niche market, even more so than hybrids. As such, it's not worth the investment in R&D to make the diesels clean enough to meet EPA regs.
If the diesel Cruze does well, I believe the consensus will change.
Right now, most car companies believe that diesels are a niche market, even more so than hybrids. As such, it's not worth the investment in R&D to make the diesels clean enough to meet EPA regs.
If the diesel Cruze does well, I believe the consensus will change.
I rented a diesel Focus in Beligum sometime around 2004 or 2005. That car was fun to drive and I was shocked that after driving it all week and driving from Brussels to Antwerp and back, it only took about 4 euros (about 4 gallons of diesel fuel) to fill it! If I could do it again, I would have actually tracked my distance traveled.
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Not lack of interest, it is likely the domestic oil and car makers lobbying to prevent small, high mileage cars from becoming very attractive because BOTH cut into the profits...
Nice conspiracy theory, but it doesn't hold up. There are two simple, uncomplicated reasons why you don't see many diesels in the US:
1) Gas is cheap in the US. Diesels are popular in parts of Europe partially because some of their governments use tax policy to favor diesel over gasoline. That, combined with higher taxes on fuel in general and diesel's better fuel-efficiency, governments force buyers into making the economic choice of turning to diesels. Fuel in the US is roughly between $3 to $4 per gallon (in Canada about $5). In Europe it's closer to $7; that makes fuel expenditures a much more significant item on most families' budgets.
The UK is one of the significant exceptions. There, gasoline is cheaper than diesel. The reason is that the government is trying to push people to away from diesel and to propane, called "LPG", or "gas"; LPG is half the price of petrol.
http://www.drive-alive.co.uk/fuel_prices_europe.html
2) NOx abatement is expensive in the US. Because of EPA regulations restricting nitric oxide emissions, certifying a diesel for NOx in the US is time-consuming and expensive, especially given that you now normally need a urea-injection system to be able to meet the new regs. In order to make the hassle and expense worthwhile, you need sufficient sales volume. Remember that the manufacturers need to spend the money up-front, just like with anything else they do, and hope the buyers like what's offered. If an insufficient number of buyers opt for the diesel, manufacturers lose money on the deal. So, they don't bother with the risk.
Not lack of interest, it is likely the domestic oil and car makers lobbying to prevent small, high mileage cars from becoming very attractive because BOTH cut into the profits...
Nice conspiracy theory, but it doesn't hold up. There are two simple, uncomplicated reasons why you don't see many diesels in the US:
1) Gas is cheap in the US. Diesels are popular in parts of Europe partially because some of their governments use tax policy to favor diesel over gasoline. That, combined with higher taxes on fuel in general and diesel's better fuel-efficiency, governments force buyers into making the economic choice of turning to diesels. Fuel in the US is roughly between $3 to $4 per gallon (in Canada about $5). In Europe it's closer to $7; that makes fuel expenditures a much more significant item on most families' budgets.
The UK is one of the significant exceptions. There, gasoline is cheaper than diesel. The reason is that the government is trying to push people to away from diesel and to propane, called "LPG", or "gas"; LPG is half the price of petrol.
http://www.drive-alive.co.uk/fuel_prices_europe.html
2) NOx abatement is expensive in the US. Because of EPA regulations restricting nitric oxide emissions, certifying a diesel for NOx in the US is time-consuming and expensive, especially given that you now normally need a urea-injection system to be able to meet the new regs. In order to make the hassle and expense worthwhile, you need sufficient sales volume. Remember that the manufacturers need to spend the money up-front, just like with anything else they do, and hope the buyers like what's offered. If an insufficient number of buyers opt for the diesel, manufacturers lose money on the deal. So, they don't bother with the risk.
Originally Posted By: JOD
You realize that Europe has stringent emissions requirements, right? And than NoX requirements are fleet averages? The reason Ford isn't bringing these in has nothing to do with the EPA...
Oh it does, partially.
US and European emissions laws target different things to differing degrees. In the US, it's NO that's the enemy. In Europe, it's CO2. Allowable NO emissions in Europe are far higher than they are in the US.
http://www.theicct.org/blogs/staff/laboratory-versus-real-world-discrepancies-nox-emissions-eu
Excerpt:
In the meantime, we Europeans may look jealously at California: there, emission limits for gasoline and diesel cars are identical, and about 75% lower than what is currently allowed for Euro 5 diesel cars in Europe. Furthermore, California also requires testing under additional driving cycles, and has greater durability requirements and in-use enforcement than Europe, resulting in better real-world emission performance. How much better exactly will be in the focus of an upcoming research project comparing on-road emissions of diesel cars in the EU and California.
US 49-state requirements aren't far off California's; and, especially with the Obama administration's preferences, there's a very real possibility that CA requirements may go nationwide.
You realize that Europe has stringent emissions requirements, right? And than NoX requirements are fleet averages? The reason Ford isn't bringing these in has nothing to do with the EPA...
Oh it does, partially.
US and European emissions laws target different things to differing degrees. In the US, it's NO that's the enemy. In Europe, it's CO2. Allowable NO emissions in Europe are far higher than they are in the US.
http://www.theicct.org/blogs/staff/laboratory-versus-real-world-discrepancies-nox-emissions-eu
Excerpt:
In the meantime, we Europeans may look jealously at California: there, emission limits for gasoline and diesel cars are identical, and about 75% lower than what is currently allowed for Euro 5 diesel cars in Europe. Furthermore, California also requires testing under additional driving cycles, and has greater durability requirements and in-use enforcement than Europe, resulting in better real-world emission performance. How much better exactly will be in the focus of an upcoming research project comparing on-road emissions of diesel cars in the EU and California.
US 49-state requirements aren't far off California's; and, especially with the Obama administration's preferences, there's a very real possibility that CA requirements may go nationwide.
The other thing to consider when looking at quoted European MPG is which gallon. If the OP is talking about 66 MP Imperial Gallon that's not so impressive.
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