AZjeff
$50 Site Donor 2023
I was questioning the statement that diesel is 50% more than gas where the poster is. 16% is the difference in price where I am.
Diesel car or SUV dead?
- Thread starter Andrew1972
- Start date
My experience with borrowed F350 and VW TDI in cold temps(-5F) was exactly as you describe. Garages make a lot of sense…
There's something going on with diesel right now-- IDK if it's being used for war machines, if Jet fuel is suddenly more popular, etc but the refineries can fix their mix and start outputting more... at the expense of gasoline!
Diesel cars only became slightly popular in America after the 1973 oil embargo and gas rationing-- it's a real motivator when you can't get gas at any price to switch to a fuel that's available. And we were importing some weird stuff from Peugeot and Volvo in addition to the memorable Mercedes models.
Diesel 3/4 ton trucks aren't slowing down, if they can only make one out of five burn oil then it's just an even more exclusive club for the "Chads" to buy into.
Diesel cars don't have much of a killer app anymore, I don't see enough people wanting a large Benz to eat up 600 highway miles between stops to make certifying them worthwhile for much longer. Those guys are buying SUVs or Teslas now.
Diesel cars only became slightly popular in America after the 1973 oil embargo and gas rationing-- it's a real motivator when you can't get gas at any price to switch to a fuel that's available. And we were importing some weird stuff from Peugeot and Volvo in addition to the memorable Mercedes models.
Diesel 3/4 ton trucks aren't slowing down, if they can only make one out of five burn oil then it's just an even more exclusive club for the "Chads" to buy into.
Diesel cars don't have much of a killer app anymore, I don't see enough people wanting a large Benz to eat up 600 highway miles between stops to make certifying them worthwhile for much longer. Those guys are buying SUVs or Teslas now.
I think with hybrid’s now getting diesel mpg has really been the death blow. No noise, no smell. The electric motor makes instant torque off the line to boot, yet the entire package straddles both worlds: high mpg but if you put your foot into it, you’re rewarded with acceleration. [Well, at least some of the hybrids!]
Closest station to me was $4.29 RUG and $6.19 D2. Forgot to look when I was in town and at the place where I buy fuel.
Is planting season in full swing? I know fall is when fuel usage really spikes, but between planting and road construction season, I wonder if usage is hitting hard now.
Closest station to me was $4.29 RUG and $6.19 D2. Forgot to look when I was in town and at the place where I buy fuel.
Is planting season in full swing? I know fall is when fuel usage really spikes, but between planting and road construction season, I wonder if usage is hitting hard now.
JHZR2
Staff member
Yeah I hate that. When I get a contractor that shows up in some fancy truck I know his quote is about 30% too expensive if not more. Interested in paying for quality work, not fancy trucks and beach houses.
JHZR2
Staff member
But for real use you’re not finding hybrids. I’m interested and surprised that we don’t see diesel hybrids on heavy trucks for the reasons you mention plus anti-idle. Hybrid instant torque, brake regen, and increased efficiency would all be reasons to hybridize heavy trucks yet they don’t. Same for hd pickups.
I suspect the battery weight is too high at this time. Maybe in the 1 ton class, but I suspect in 18 wheeler the power demands are too high. In cars the fact that under typical usage power required is low, and under load the requirement is short cycle, means that the system is not particularly heavy. Scale up for higher duty cycle and system weight gets problematic. Higher duty cycle or just higher power, the scale gets bigger.
Might be worth trying in something like a 1 ton though. Maybe i’m wrong. But i think hybrid is eating its cake because of low duty cycle and low peak demand.
In a diesel locomotive, the weight bump is in the “eh” class, as it can help traction, even though in the end, weight is weight and it hurts going up a hill. But what would a battery pack for that application weigh? it’d be a trailer of its own, and the wiring… huge! serious copper there. Design that system and then you could just scale between these bookend systems (passenger car and locomotive) every different system.
Car drivers like having enough of a battery/ electric boost to help their 0-60 time, and enough regenerative braking to do a bunch of 0-35-0-35-0s in the city. This makes hybrids less of a penalty box than a 1.3 liter Tercel from the 1980s.
Truck drivers are more pragmatic, they don't care if they get in the way, accelerate at whatever speed the truck allows, and won't get run over because they're bigger. 60 seconds of battery boost sounds good until they hit a grade and burn through it all, then it's back to whatever power the ICE makes, at the expense of heavy complicated junk on board that could, instead, be weight used for the load. An 80-something hp prius can still maintain the grade, it just gets buzzy with RPM when the battery goes flat.
Truck drivers are more pragmatic, they don't care if they get in the way, accelerate at whatever speed the truck allows, and won't get run over because they're bigger. 60 seconds of battery boost sounds good until they hit a grade and burn through it all, then it's back to whatever power the ICE makes, at the expense of heavy complicated junk on board that could, instead, be weight used for the load. An 80-something hp prius can still maintain the grade, it just gets buzzy with RPM when the battery goes flat.
Whats the gauge of overhead electric lines? trains use those to get going all the time. The gauge doesn't have to be huge, but the batteries have to be, no doubt. 5000HP for full duty requires a lot of cooling capacity, and the cooling requirement is also there when braking (regen).
Teslas have truck power levels but they can't use it for very long, a few minutes and they overheat. No use in a truck. The range also drops dramatically, to a few dozen miles so expect truck batteries to be about 10 times the size and weight of a tesla battery. It's a problem when space is at a premium and gross max weight is regulated.
Unfortunately, it seems that way. Out of the 11 cars I've had as daily drivers since passing my driving test in 2010, 10 of them have been diesels and I've never been left at the side of the road or had any big bills from any of them. I'd probably estimate I've done 200-300k in those cars.
Even here in the UK we now have so many cars that aren't available with a diesel engine any more.
Back when I bought a brand new Ford Focus in 2015 you could have a 95bhp 1.5TDCi, 120bhp 1.5TDCi, 150bhp 2.0TDCi and a Focus ST with a 185bhp 2.0TDCi all with manual or powershift gearboxes. Now? Well you can have a 120ps 1.5TDCi with a torque converter box.
I don't buy the 'expensive bills' with a diesel as most petrol engines these days have common rail fuel injection, EGR valves, particulate filters etc.
Even here in the UK we now have so many cars that aren't available with a diesel engine any more.
Back when I bought a brand new Ford Focus in 2015 you could have a 95bhp 1.5TDCi, 120bhp 1.5TDCi, 150bhp 2.0TDCi and a Focus ST with a 185bhp 2.0TDCi all with manual or powershift gearboxes. Now? Well you can have a 120ps 1.5TDCi with a torque converter box.
I don't buy the 'expensive bills' with a diesel as most petrol engines these days have common rail fuel injection, EGR valves, particulate filters etc.
It's not quite as clear as that. Diesel fuel contains considerably more energy per gallon than gasoline, so even poor quality diesel engines will get better MPG. Diesel car engines can be about 40-44% thermally efficient if sized correctly. Contrast that with the Prius and Camry (and many others now) that are now 41% thermally efficient.
Again, the increase in MPG diesel vehicles experience is partially related to the significantly higher energy content of the fuel. Diesel may be as high in energy as 139,000 BTU per gallon. But like gas with ethanol, todays ULSD may have less energy.
Of note, by weight, diesel, kerosene and real gasoline contain the same energy. Aircraft carry fuel by "weight" and therefore the benefits of diesel power are nowhere near as significant as they would be for a truck.
Of note, a modern Camry will return 35-36mpg in mixed driving and about 40 on the highway. A diesel Passat (about the same size) will do the same or even a bit less in mixed driving and about 42 on the highway.
Sadly the media doesn't report that , most people only think what their Tv tells them to think.
I've grown up around diesels, my Dad still drives his big rig and always bought older MB diesels. I've had quite a few myself over the years. I think it's a lifestyle choice partly, and appreciating what the technology is capable of. But it's not without its quirks and special needs.
Being able to run 600+ miles on a tank of fuel doesn't mean running 600+ miles without stopping... Just not worrying about finding or buying fuel every other hour on the road.
For those that travel a lot, diesels make more financial sense given the fuel savings and also the longer expected life of the motor. I'd have minimal concerns buying an older MB diesel with 300k miles on it because all of the ones I've had were good to drive. But I'd never buy a gasser at that kind of mileage. In fact, I don't think I'd buy anything over 150k miles unless it was a diesel.
If you plan on owning passenger diesels, you'd better have access to a good Indy or be able to do most of your own repairs and maintenance. Otherwise you will be paying out the nose at the dealerships. Parts are easily found online these days and as long as you have proper scan tools, you'll figure out what needs replacing.
Diesels may not be for everyone, and they're nothing to brag about (they're just cars), but they are niche products that require a bit more attention than your typical appliance drive-it-and-forget-it vehicles. With a nice tune, they really scoot too.
Being able to run 600+ miles on a tank of fuel doesn't mean running 600+ miles without stopping... Just not worrying about finding or buying fuel every other hour on the road.
For those that travel a lot, diesels make more financial sense given the fuel savings and also the longer expected life of the motor. I'd have minimal concerns buying an older MB diesel with 300k miles on it because all of the ones I've had were good to drive. But I'd never buy a gasser at that kind of mileage. In fact, I don't think I'd buy anything over 150k miles unless it was a diesel.
If you plan on owning passenger diesels, you'd better have access to a good Indy or be able to do most of your own repairs and maintenance. Otherwise you will be paying out the nose at the dealerships. Parts are easily found online these days and as long as you have proper scan tools, you'll figure out what needs replacing.
Diesels may not be for everyone, and they're nothing to brag about (they're just cars), but they are niche products that require a bit more attention than your typical appliance drive-it-and-forget-it vehicles. With a nice tune, they really scoot too.
the niche is rather wide and varied if you look around the world.
Any drive it and forget it will not last too long, especially the more modern it is.
so what can you brag about? Your 10 sec car, your yacht... is anything actually something to brag about? No!
If the thing makes you happy, talk about it and if people take it as bragging forget them.
They might be dead in the US, but diesel vehicles are everywhere in Australia. Consistently among the Top 10 for sales each month are Toyota Hilux, Ford Ranger, Mitsubishi Triton and Isuzu D-Max, all of which are only available as a diesel. Toyota Prado and Toyota Landcruiser 300 Series also sell well, and although petrol engines are available in those, very few people tick that box.
They do have a higher upfront cost.
My dad has a diesel Tahoe on order. I can’t remember the exact numbers, but I the math works out to be about the same cost per mile on that vs his SHO.
I’m not looking forward to how complicated it’s going to be though. Even diesel tractors today that are 26.5 hp and above have emissions. (I’m somewhat surprised liquid cooled gas engines haven’t made a comeback for that.)
My dad has a diesel Tahoe on order. I can’t remember the exact numbers, but I the math works out to be about the same cost per mile on that vs his SHO.
I’m not looking forward to how complicated it’s going to be though. Even diesel tractors today that are 26.5 hp and above have emissions. (I’m somewhat surprised liquid cooled gas engines haven’t made a comeback for that.)
Noting beats a diesel to day when it comes to pulling heavy stuff.
I wonder if it is too much of a pain. Not sure what the emissions requirements are, but if they have to meet evaporative limits then they’d need to change fuel tank and add all that stuff too.
Dealers will tell you emissions aren’t issues on tractors.
I don’t buy it. They’ve been out for 10 years or so? Still very new.
