Diesel and not so declining diesel prices

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Jul 17, 2003
Messages
909
Location
New York
I've always thought the next daily driver would be a new diesel car. However diesel fuel in my area has gone WAY up over the last 2 years if not the premium on buying the *diesel version* of the same model versus a petrol version. Dunno if the cost differential between the 2 would be worth the extra premium in buying a diesel variant these days.


100+ extra pounds of torque, decent HP and MPG is all I would want in a DD. However, in just looking at some base #'s.....the mpg saved on a Audi TDI...is much more, in contrast to MB variants as well. We'll see how the #'s play out.
 
The upcoming HCCI motors should burn gasoline as efficiently as diesels burn diesel, but with no smoke. I don't know how long it will take to get them close to perfection.
 
In Wisconsin the price of diesel has gone down about $.60 a Gal. in the last month. The price of gas has only went down about $.30 a Gal.
 
I agree that it should be cheaper, you have to do the calculation and put it in terms of $ per mile or hundred miles. It is a shame that the savings is not as great as it once was though.
 
Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Neighbors son has a diesel Jetta. Fills it up every 700+ miles.

That's tough to argue with.
I fill up every 520+ miles with regular unleaded and a 13.2 gallon tank...

And I always have well over a gallon left in the tank!

Sadly between how complex the new diesels are going to be (Thank you EPA/CARB) , that diesel fuel being more and the extra cost of getting the diesel motor I think in a commuter car, your payback will be a LONG time..
 
Maybe I'm wrong, so can someone that knows clear this up for me... Doesn't Diesel require less refining than gasoline? So isn't it cheaper to produce?? If that's the case, why does it cost more??
 
Supply and demand. The amount of gasoline produced compared to the amount of diesel is relatively fixed - therefore the prices for each can fluctuate independently.
 
Originally Posted By: NYEngineer
Maybe I'm wrong, so can someone that knows clear this up for me... Doesn't Diesel require less refining than gasoline? So isn't it cheaper to produce?? If that's the case, why does it cost more??


European refineries are designed to produce a higher percentage of diesel and less gasoline. This is a result of the long-term emphasis on diesel there.

American refineries are designed to produce a much lower percentage of diesel.

In fact, we import diesel fuel from Europe.

Given 5 years and a few billion $ the American refineries could devote more of their output to diesel, but in the short-run the increase in demand - in part due to the low-sulfur requirement - will be driving up prices.
 
Chefwong,

Have you considered making your own bio diesel? It is a little more complicated than just using straight veggie oil, but with a little practice, and a place to store it, it will cost you from what I've been told about 50 cents to a dollar per gallon to make. Secondly the reason diesel prices rose so much faster than gas was that A)Diesel production in the US is close to 100% at any given time B) We ship alot of our diesel to Europe, as more cars over there use diesel.
 
also keep in mind if you buy a gas car, would it require premium unleaded or normal unleaded. here in austin, tx there is very little price difference now between premium gas and diesel.
 
Diesel fuel has been in especially strong demand for the last couple years, Because of price controls in China, refiners there have been unable to raise prices enough to match the cost increases for crude oil. So it seems as though they would rather buy a tanker load of diesel or fuel oil than a tanker of crude.

Right now the dollar is getting stronger, as the long speculators unwind their trades and try to make their margin calls. But from February until June, it made sense for the Chinese, Indians, and other foreign buyers to shop for diesel in the US, cutting into our inventories and pushing diesel prices up much faster than gasoline.

Another factor -- the rest of the world had more gasoline than it needed, and was anxious to dump their surpluses in the US. So gasoline was plentiful here, prices rose much more slowly than crude prices, and it got so bad that refiners were losing money on every gallon of gasoline they produced. Since they couldn't cut gasoline production without cutting production of diesel and other distillate fuels, diesel production dropped even as diesel prices set daily records.

Final factor, and this is controversial and not everyone agrees with me... ethanol mandates replaced gasoline, but not diesel. Farmers who wanted to plant more acres of corn, to take advantage of high corn prices, burned more diesel fuel. So ethanol cut the demand for gasoline AND increased the demand for diesel... one more reason for diesel prices to go up relative to gasoline.

In the next couple years, there are many new refineries coming online around the world, and they all are being built to optimize production of distillates. More diesel and less gasoline from each barrel of crude will gradually result in diesel declining in price compared to gasoline. The sharp spike in diesel prices only took a few months, but it will likely take 12-24 months to get back to a normal price differential.
 
Drove down to SC this week, and noticed a big variation by state - seems KY and SC diesel prices are much closer to gasoline. Why is this? Do they vary taxes that much? Wonder too if diesel prices spiked some to pay for the cost of reducing the sulfur content?
 
Another factor is taxes. Many states view diesel as a "commercial" fuel and tax it heavily with excise taxes as a way of generating additional revenue from business.

Drew
 
I can tell you that for our 2003 Golf TDI (5-speed) the cost per mile is still less than a comparable gas car. Compared to something like the Prius, it is fairly close, but the Prius also has a price premium. The Prius and the TDI are good for different things: The Prius is a good city car, and the TDI is a good highway car.
 
Probably it has something to do with road funding (I'm speculating) take something like PA ..with vast spans between urban centers and plenty of true rural space ..and a 4 season climate. I would expect it to be worse in some place like MI or places like that. The further south one goes, with some conditions and restrictions applied, should see cheaper diesel prices.

I think some place like Maryland, where much of the commercial through traffic is carried on toll roads would also have an impact on the price. Conduit states can bypass a good bit of expense with toll roads (NJ Tpk, etc.)

That's just pulling something out of my behind for a reason.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top