First off let me say that tho I haven't been here long, I enjoy this site, as I'm very anal about the oil I run in my vehicles. I'm eager to hear your thoughts on this. This past weekend me and a couple friends went to a speed shop where one friend bought a bottle of ZDDP additive (at my advice) for his hot rod. He's running a solid lifter cam with higher than stock spring pressure. I believe the brand was Edelbrock and the price was about $15. Fast forward to late last night at work (3rd shifter) when I noticed an oil bottle that had fallen behind the machine I run. During a slow moment, I retrieved the bottle and read the label to see what kind of golden elixir I had found. The label said it consisted of mineral oil and zinc dithiophosphate. AH HA! The light bulb was glowing bright! I was thinking since MMO is mineral oil based and reportedly frees sticky hydraulic lifters and since zinc is good for flat tappet cammed engines, this oil I found may do well mixed into the crankcase of an older vehicle. What was this oil, you ask? Pneumatic air tool oil. Anyone with an air compressor in their garage probably has a bottle on the shelf. I believe the brand name was Sta Lube. Your thoughts?
Did i find an alternative additive?
- Thread starter olskoolblu
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Today's oils don't need any extra zddp. To think otherwise is absurd.
And zddp is corrosive so oil blenders add a compound to counteract this effect. Extra zddp is a benefit for break in. Once the cam is broken in and wear hardened extra zddp is of no benefit and can actually be detrimental.
Today's oils use a balance of additives and are synergistic. To add zddp blindly is unwise at best,at worst can accelerate gasket failure and eat away at metal.
Blenders today use various anti-wear and friction modifying agents,and a vastly superior to what was available even 10 years ago.
You don't need more zddp.
If you are going to add anything liqui-moly mos2 won't react with anything in the existing oil and will benefit the engine with less fuel consumption. So if you are going to add anything that would be it.
You can find it at napa.
And zddp is corrosive so oil blenders add a compound to counteract this effect. Extra zddp is a benefit for break in. Once the cam is broken in and wear hardened extra zddp is of no benefit and can actually be detrimental.
Today's oils use a balance of additives and are synergistic. To add zddp blindly is unwise at best,at worst can accelerate gasket failure and eat away at metal.
Blenders today use various anti-wear and friction modifying agents,and a vastly superior to what was available even 10 years ago.
You don't need more zddp.
If you are going to add anything liqui-moly mos2 won't react with anything in the existing oil and will benefit the engine with less fuel consumption. So if you are going to add anything that would be it.
You can find it at napa.
And you want to dump air tool oil in your engine? Right.
Originally Posted By: olskoolblu
First off let me say that tho I haven't been here long, I enjoy this site, as I'm very anal about the oil I run in my vehicles. I'm eager to hear your thoughts on this. This past weekend me and a couple friends went to a speed shop where one friend bought a bottle of ZDDP additive (at my advice) for his hot rod. He's running a solid lifter cam with higher than stock spring pressure. I believe the brand was Edelbrock and the price was about $15. Fast forward to late last night at work (3rd shifter) when I noticed an oil bottle that had fallen behind the machine I run. During a slow moment, I retrieved the bottle and read the label to see what kind of golden elixir I had found. The label said it consisted of mineral oil and zinc dithiophosphate. AH HA! The light bulb was glowing bright! I was thinking since MMO is mineral oil based and reportedly frees sticky hydraulic lifters and since zinc is good for flat tappet cammed engines, this oil I found may do well mixed into the crankcase of an older vehicle. What was this oil, you ask? Pneumatic air tool oil. Anyone with an air compressor in their garage probably has a bottle on the shelf. I believe the brand name was Sta Lube. Your thoughts?
Originally Posted By: olskoolblu
First off let me say that tho I haven't been here long, I enjoy this site, as I'm very anal about the oil I run in my vehicles. I'm eager to hear your thoughts on this. This past weekend me and a couple friends went to a speed shop where one friend bought a bottle of ZDDP additive (at my advice) for his hot rod. He's running a solid lifter cam with higher than stock spring pressure. I believe the brand was Edelbrock and the price was about $15. Fast forward to late last night at work (3rd shifter) when I noticed an oil bottle that had fallen behind the machine I run. During a slow moment, I retrieved the bottle and read the label to see what kind of golden elixir I had found. The label said it consisted of mineral oil and zinc dithiophosphate. AH HA! The light bulb was glowing bright! I was thinking since MMO is mineral oil based and reportedly frees sticky hydraulic lifters and since zinc is good for flat tappet cammed engines, this oil I found may do well mixed into the crankcase of an older vehicle. What was this oil, you ask? Pneumatic air tool oil. Anyone with an air compressor in their garage probably has a bottle on the shelf. I believe the brand name was Sta Lube. Your thoughts?
Originally Posted By: kschachn
And you want to dump air tool oil in your engine? Right.
Marvel Mystery Oil http://www.imperialsupplies.com/msds0077480.shtml
COMPONENT------------CAS NUMBER --CONCENTRATION (wt%)
Naphthenic Hydrocarbons 64742-52-5 70 - 80
Mineral Spirits 08052-41-3 20 - 30
Chlorinated Hydrocarbons 00095-50-1 0 - 1
Marvel Air Tool Oil http://www.imperialsupplies.com/msds0076050.shtml
Naphthenic Hydrocarbons 64742-52-5 70-80
Mineral Spirits 08052-41-3 20-30
Chlorinated Hydrocarbons 00095-50-1 0-1
And you want to dump air tool oil in your engine? Right.
Marvel Mystery Oil http://www.imperialsupplies.com/msds0077480.shtml
COMPONENT------------CAS NUMBER --CONCENTRATION (wt%)
Naphthenic Hydrocarbons 64742-52-5 70 - 80
Mineral Spirits 08052-41-3 20 - 30
Chlorinated Hydrocarbons 00095-50-1 0 - 1
Marvel Air Tool Oil http://www.imperialsupplies.com/msds0076050.shtml
Naphthenic Hydrocarbons 64742-52-5 70-80
Mineral Spirits 08052-41-3 20-30
Chlorinated Hydrocarbons 00095-50-1 0-1
Here we go...............
I don't want MMO in my engine either, if that is what you are implying.
Beyond that though, just because the MSDS appears similar that doesn't mean the products are identical. Companies deliberately obfuscate on MSDS so that trade secrets are not revealed. An MSDS is a poor way to reverse engineer a product.
Originally Posted By: carwreck
Originally Posted By: kschachn
And you want to dump air tool oil in your engine? Right.
Marvel Mystery Oil http://www.imperialsupplies.com/msds0077480.shtml
COMPONENT------------CAS NUMBER --CONCENTRATION (wt%)
Naphthenic Hydrocarbons 64742-52-5 70 - 80
Mineral Spirits 08052-41-3 20 - 30
Chlorinated Hydrocarbons 00095-50-1 0 - 1
Marvel Air Tool Oil http://www.imperialsupplies.com/msds0076050.shtml
Naphthenic Hydrocarbons 64742-52-5 70-80
Mineral Spirits 08052-41-3 20-30
Chlorinated Hydrocarbons 00095-50-1 0-1
Beyond that though, just because the MSDS appears similar that doesn't mean the products are identical. Companies deliberately obfuscate on MSDS so that trade secrets are not revealed. An MSDS is a poor way to reverse engineer a product.
Originally Posted By: carwreck
Originally Posted By: kschachn
And you want to dump air tool oil in your engine? Right.
Marvel Mystery Oil http://www.imperialsupplies.com/msds0077480.shtml
COMPONENT------------CAS NUMBER --CONCENTRATION (wt%)
Naphthenic Hydrocarbons 64742-52-5 70 - 80
Mineral Spirits 08052-41-3 20 - 30
Chlorinated Hydrocarbons 00095-50-1 0 - 1
Marvel Air Tool Oil http://www.imperialsupplies.com/msds0076050.shtml
Naphthenic Hydrocarbons 64742-52-5 70-80
Mineral Spirits 08052-41-3 20-30
Chlorinated Hydrocarbons 00095-50-1 0-1
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Here we go...............
LOL..................
Here we go...............
LOL..................
Originally Posted By: scurvy
At what point did the OP ask about running MMO in his engine?
Strawman and/or reading comprehension fail...
Do you want insult to lock this thread ?
Reading comprehension.....
Originally Posted By: olskoolblu
The light bulb was glowing bright! I was thinking since MMO is mineral oil based and reportedly...What was this oil, you ask? Pneumatic air tool oil. Anyone with an air compressor in their garage probably has a bottle on the shelf. I believe the brand name was Sta Lube, Your thoughts?
OP question "Did i find an alternative additive?" in general is about using air tool oil to replace oil additive, specific product called STA LUBE, and thoughts. OP also mentions MMO in his thought process.
My reply included "thoughts" and answered the general concept of using air tool oil as an alternative to oil additives.
Marvel Mystery Oil and Marvel Air Tool Oil, which is used in Pneumatic air tools, have exactly the same primary ingredients as shown by the MSDS.
My reply answered the general concept of using air tool oil as an alternative to oil additives.
At what point did the OP ask about running MMO in his engine?
Strawman and/or reading comprehension fail...
Do you want insult to lock this thread ?
Reading comprehension.....
Originally Posted By: olskoolblu
The light bulb was glowing bright! I was thinking since MMO is mineral oil based and reportedly...What was this oil, you ask? Pneumatic air tool oil. Anyone with an air compressor in their garage probably has a bottle on the shelf. I believe the brand name was Sta Lube, Your thoughts?
OP question "Did i find an alternative additive?" in general is about using air tool oil to replace oil additive, specific product called STA LUBE, and thoughts. OP also mentions MMO in his thought process.
My reply included "thoughts" and answered the general concept of using air tool oil as an alternative to oil additives.
Marvel Mystery Oil and Marvel Air Tool Oil, which is used in Pneumatic air tools, have exactly the same primary ingredients as shown by the MSDS.
My reply answered the general concept of using air tool oil as an alternative to oil additives.
I would be very careful adding things to your oil that very qualified engineers and chemists to name a few, have put extensive research into. Everything you need is in the oil already if you choose wisely. If you have the need for a higher ZDDP oil I would recommend QS Defy, Valvoline VR1, or Amsoil Z-Rod (list priced low to high). I would not add pneumatic air tool products into my engine for anything.
Originally Posted By: carwreck
Do you want insult to lock this thread ?
Pointing out logical or reading fallacies are not insults.
Originally Posted By: carwreck
OP question "Did i find an alternative additive?" in general is about using air tool oil to replace oil additive, specific product called STA LUBE, and thoughts. OP also mentions MMO in his thought process.
My reply included "thoughts" and answered the general concept of using air tool oil as an alternative to oil additives.
Marvel Mystery Oil and Marvel Air Tool Oil, which is used in Pneumatic air tools, have exactly the same primary ingredients as shown by the MSDS.
My reply answered the general concept of using air tool oil as an alternative to oil additives.
The OP asked about a specific air tool oil which isn't from Marvel.
How does posting MSDS information from Marvel Mystery Oil and Marvel Air Tool Oil help the OP decide when asking specifically about Sta-Lube brand air tool oil from CRC Industries?
If you ask for help with a specific Chevrolet EGR problem and I post repair information for a Toyota, is that helpful? In general, they're both cars!
To the OP, I think Clevy posted some excellent information in post #2 for you.
I'll also attempt to help you out by posting the ingredients from the CRC Industries Sta-Lube Air Tool Oil MSDS:
Code:
COMPONENT CAS NUMBER % by Wt.
Hydrotreated light naphthenic distillates 64742-53-6 93 – 97
Solvent-refined heavy naphthenic distillates 64741-96-4 1 – 5
Zinc, dithiophosphate di-C1-14-alkyl esters 68649-42-3 < 1
Less than 1% ZDDP by weight (but we can assume they meant mass) means you're not getting much for your money.
The Edelbrock 1074 Zinc additive says this:
Code:
Components CASNR Amount(%)
Synthetic Hydrocarbons 68037-01-4, 64741-97-5 20-60
Molybdenum compounds 71342-89-7 5-20
Phosphorus compounds N/A "Mixtures" 5-20
We can safely assume that it means % by mass, which means it has at least 5x as much ZDDP "phosphorous compounds" as the Sta-Lube air tool oil... and it's designed to be put in your motor oil. It also contains a similar amount of Moly compounds which can be an excellent anti-wear additive.
That being said I would not use MMO, Marvel Air Tool Oil, Sta-Lube air tool oil, Edelbrock 1074 Zinc additive or anything else in a "hot rod running a solid lifter cam with higher than stock spring pressure". I would use Shell Rotella T5 10w30 or T6 5w40. Or if your pockets are deep, one of the purpose built "hot rod" oils from the boutique blenders.
Do you want insult to lock this thread ?
Pointing out logical or reading fallacies are not insults.
Originally Posted By: carwreck
OP question "Did i find an alternative additive?" in general is about using air tool oil to replace oil additive, specific product called STA LUBE, and thoughts. OP also mentions MMO in his thought process.
My reply included "thoughts" and answered the general concept of using air tool oil as an alternative to oil additives.
Marvel Mystery Oil and Marvel Air Tool Oil, which is used in Pneumatic air tools, have exactly the same primary ingredients as shown by the MSDS.
My reply answered the general concept of using air tool oil as an alternative to oil additives.
The OP asked about a specific air tool oil which isn't from Marvel.
How does posting MSDS information from Marvel Mystery Oil and Marvel Air Tool Oil help the OP decide when asking specifically about Sta-Lube brand air tool oil from CRC Industries?
If you ask for help with a specific Chevrolet EGR problem and I post repair information for a Toyota, is that helpful? In general, they're both cars!
To the OP, I think Clevy posted some excellent information in post #2 for you.
I'll also attempt to help you out by posting the ingredients from the CRC Industries Sta-Lube Air Tool Oil MSDS:
Code:
COMPONENT CAS NUMBER % by Wt.
Hydrotreated light naphthenic distillates 64742-53-6 93 – 97
Solvent-refined heavy naphthenic distillates 64741-96-4 1 – 5
Zinc, dithiophosphate di-C1-14-alkyl esters 68649-42-3 < 1
Less than 1% ZDDP by weight (but we can assume they meant mass) means you're not getting much for your money.
The Edelbrock 1074 Zinc additive says this:
Code:
Components CASNR Amount(%)
Synthetic Hydrocarbons 68037-01-4, 64741-97-5 20-60
Molybdenum compounds 71342-89-7 5-20
Phosphorus compounds N/A "Mixtures" 5-20
We can safely assume that it means % by mass, which means it has at least 5x as much ZDDP "phosphorous compounds" as the Sta-Lube air tool oil... and it's designed to be put in your motor oil. It also contains a similar amount of Moly compounds which can be an excellent anti-wear additive.
That being said I would not use MMO, Marvel Air Tool Oil, Sta-Lube air tool oil, Edelbrock 1074 Zinc additive or anything else in a "hot rod running a solid lifter cam with higher than stock spring pressure". I would use Shell Rotella T5 10w30 or T6 5w40. Or if your pockets are deep, one of the purpose built "hot rod" oils from the boutique blenders.
OP if you're looking for a good ZDDP additive check out Red Line Engine Break In Additive. Part #81403. It can also be used to boost ZDDP levels. It is a good product and will probably accomplish what you're looking to do.
Originally Posted By: scurvy
Originally Posted By: carwreck
Do you want insult to lock this thread ?
Pointing out logical or reading fallacies are not insults.
Originally Posted By: carwreck
OP question "Did i find an alternative additive?" in general is about using air tool oil to replace oil additive, specific product called STA LUBE, and thoughts. OP also mentions MMO in his thought process.
My reply included "thoughts" and answered the general concept of using air tool oil as an alternative to oil additives.
Marvel Mystery Oil and Marvel Air Tool Oil, which is used in Pneumatic air tools, have exactly the same primary ingredients as shown by the MSDS.
My reply answered the general concept of using air tool oil as an alternative to oil additives.
The OP asked about a specific air tool oil which isn't from Marvel.
How does posting MSDS information from Marvel Mystery Oil and Marvel Air Tool Oil help the OP decide when asking specifically about Sta-Lube brand air tool oil from CRC Industries?
If you ask for help with a specific Chevrolet EGR problem and I post repair information for a Toyota, is that helpful? In general, they're both cars!
To the OP, I think Clevy posted some excellent information in post #2 for you.
I'll also attempt to help you out by posting the ingredients from the CRC Industries Sta-Lube Air Tool Oil MSDS:
Code:
COMPONENT CAS NUMBER % by Wt.
Hydrotreated light naphthenic distillates 64742-53-6 93 – 97
Solvent-refined heavy naphthenic distillates 64741-96-4 1 – 5
Zinc, dithiophosphate di-C1-14-alkyl esters 68649-42-3 < 1
Less than 1% ZDDP by weight (but we can assume they meant mass) means you're not getting much for your money.
The Edelbrock 1074 Zinc additive says this:
Code:
Components CASNR Amount(%)
Synthetic Hydrocarbons 68037-01-4, 64741-97-5 20-60
Molybdenum compounds 71342-89-7 5-20
Phosphorus compounds N/A "Mixtures" 5-20
We can safely assume that it means % by mass, which means it has at least 5x as much ZDDP "phosphorous compounds" as the Sta-Lube air tool oil... and it's designed to be put in your motor oil. It also contains a similar amount of Moly compounds which can be an excellent anti-wear additive.
That being said I would not use MMO, Marvel Air Tool Oil, Sta-Lube air tool oil, Edelbrock 1074 Zinc additive or anything else in a "hot rod running a solid lifter cam with higher than stock spring pressure". I would use Shell Rotella T5 10w30 or T6 5w40. Or if your pockets are deep, one of the purpose built "hot rod" oils from the boutique blenders.
Now this is the kind of intelligent discussion I hoped to have, not snide remarks or rude comments. Thank you for the product details. I was never going to put air tool oil in an engine, it's far easier to buy quality oil right across the road. I recommended both Rotella and Valvoline VR-1 to my friend, but with only a few miles on his oil change and fresh engine, he decided to use the additive this OCI.
Originally Posted By: carwreck
Do you want insult to lock this thread ?
Pointing out logical or reading fallacies are not insults.
Originally Posted By: carwreck
OP question "Did i find an alternative additive?" in general is about using air tool oil to replace oil additive, specific product called STA LUBE, and thoughts. OP also mentions MMO in his thought process.
My reply included "thoughts" and answered the general concept of using air tool oil as an alternative to oil additives.
Marvel Mystery Oil and Marvel Air Tool Oil, which is used in Pneumatic air tools, have exactly the same primary ingredients as shown by the MSDS.
My reply answered the general concept of using air tool oil as an alternative to oil additives.
The OP asked about a specific air tool oil which isn't from Marvel.
How does posting MSDS information from Marvel Mystery Oil and Marvel Air Tool Oil help the OP decide when asking specifically about Sta-Lube brand air tool oil from CRC Industries?
If you ask for help with a specific Chevrolet EGR problem and I post repair information for a Toyota, is that helpful? In general, they're both cars!
To the OP, I think Clevy posted some excellent information in post #2 for you.
I'll also attempt to help you out by posting the ingredients from the CRC Industries Sta-Lube Air Tool Oil MSDS:
Code:
COMPONENT CAS NUMBER % by Wt.
Hydrotreated light naphthenic distillates 64742-53-6 93 – 97
Solvent-refined heavy naphthenic distillates 64741-96-4 1 – 5
Zinc, dithiophosphate di-C1-14-alkyl esters 68649-42-3 < 1
Less than 1% ZDDP by weight (but we can assume they meant mass) means you're not getting much for your money.
The Edelbrock 1074 Zinc additive says this:
Code:
Components CASNR Amount(%)
Synthetic Hydrocarbons 68037-01-4, 64741-97-5 20-60
Molybdenum compounds 71342-89-7 5-20
Phosphorus compounds N/A "Mixtures" 5-20
We can safely assume that it means % by mass, which means it has at least 5x as much ZDDP "phosphorous compounds" as the Sta-Lube air tool oil... and it's designed to be put in your motor oil. It also contains a similar amount of Moly compounds which can be an excellent anti-wear additive.
That being said I would not use MMO, Marvel Air Tool Oil, Sta-Lube air tool oil, Edelbrock 1074 Zinc additive or anything else in a "hot rod running a solid lifter cam with higher than stock spring pressure". I would use Shell Rotella T5 10w30 or T6 5w40. Or if your pockets are deep, one of the purpose built "hot rod" oils from the boutique blenders.
Now this is the kind of intelligent discussion I hoped to have, not snide remarks or rude comments. Thank you for the product details. I was never going to put air tool oil in an engine, it's far easier to buy quality oil right across the road. I recommended both Rotella and Valvoline VR-1 to my friend, but with only a few miles on his oil change and fresh engine, he decided to use the additive this OCI.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Here we go...............
I don't typically quote myself, but it looks like I was right. Sadly this turned into another wasted thread. On a positive note there was some useful info but...........
Here we go...............
I don't typically quote myself, but it looks like I was right. Sadly this turned into another wasted thread. On a positive note there was some useful info but...........
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