Deisel oil in High Performance Motorcycles

[Silk]

Originally Posted By: heavyhitter
no, they stick with the one that pays the most money to put on that little sticker that says the name brand.


Speedway bikes have always,and still do run castor oil,it's just what they do.Back in the '70's Ivan Mauger (9 times Champion) made a big thing about using Duckhams oil....stickers and everything.I don't know if he actually used Duckhams mineral oil ( I never went into the pits and sniffed his exhaust pipe),or if it was an advertising stunt and he used castor oil branded as Duckhams - but we were pretty impressed anyway,and I used nice green Duckhams in my road bike sometimes.

 

[azsynthetic]

Jorge Lorenzo held off teammate Valentino Rossi to win the sun-baked Japanese Grand Prix at the Twin Ring Motegi circuit. Both were on a Yamaha. So, why didn't Rossi wins every time?

 

[azsynthetic]

Originally Posted By: Keto

Either you know nothing about motorcycle riding (let alone racing), or youre being intentionally disingenuous. In either case, its impossible to take you seriously at this point.

You sound like a Troll that works for a Motorcycle Oil company who doesnt want people using other oils....


Either you are wannabe racers and know nothing about engine building and race oil or just plain stupid. All you need to do is look at the racing records and see that riders come and go but the oil will stay the same. And the record said there is no Rotella in the professional racing winning circle. FYI, peewee racing don't count with the oil manufacturers.

BTW, I don't work for any oil companies nor do I own any of their stocks.

 

[azsynthetic]

Originally Posted By: heavyhitter


ROFL. No engine builder is looking for an oil to increase horsepower but rather oil that will last the race, an increase n HP from HP will be minute at best. And for the comment they stick to "they stick to the winning oil" no, they stick with the one that pays the most money to but on that little sticker that says the name brand. I used to race motocross and enduros and many guys run HDEO and run it well.


Yes very laughable statement. Apparently you have not talked to any engine builder if you think that they are not looking for horsepower gain. Any horsepower gain is an advantage to an engine builder. Putting a sticker on a race vehicle is not the same as running that particular oil in the race vehicle. You are naive if you think that the sticker is what people actually run in their bikes. Or may be you are not a racer after all.

 

[azsynthetic]

Originally Posted By: Hans
How do you explain Rossi winning on a Honda and then going to Yamaha same old same old no matter what he is on he still wins.


From MotoGP.com

"Masao Furusawa, General Manager of Yamaha Motor Company’s Technology Development Division, has spoken out about the arrival of MotoGP World Champion Valentino Rossi to Yamaha and the factory’s plans to accommodate him over the next few months. Furusawa outlined the engineering department’s plans to provide Rossi with a winning machine from the first race of the season and explained the structural changes made within the company to integrate the Italian and his key mechanics to the squad.

“Our engineers are busy to improve and upgrade every part of the M1 to be ready for the 2004 season,” explained Furusawa. “We have already tested new prototype chassis in Valencia and a revised engine is currently being completed in Japan (based upon Yamaha’s chosen inline-four concept). We will use an extensive winter test program to further develop the bike and to adapt it to match Valentino’s and our other riders’ needs."

As you can see the bike is developed so that Rossi can ride it. Rossi is not that good that he can just jump on any bike and win. If the bike is not correctly built then Rossi will never win, and he has already loss to his team mate last month.

 

[dwendt44]

The oil used on pro racing is either that chosen by the manufacturer or which ever oil brand that pays to have their name on the side of the bike.
Just because Rotella isn't bragging about it's racing history or paying to have it's name on a bike, doesn't mean it can't work fine in high performance use.
All out racing may require special oils, I don't know but few here are pro level racers anyway.

 

[Keto]

Originally Posted By: azsynthetic


As you can see the bike is developed so that Rossi can ride it.


Developed... uhh, not exactly. Setting it up for his preferences, yes.

Quote:
...factorys plans to accommodate him over the next few months.


That statement entails a WIDE variety of logistical and organizational requirements.

Quote:
Furusawa outlined the engineering departments plans to provide Rossi with a winning machine from the first race of the season and explained the structural changes made within the company to integrate the Italian and his key mechanics to the squad.


Every manufacturer wants to provide a state-of-the-art machine, but it takes a skilled rider to make use of it. By your logic, a factory can develop a machine that you could throw any 'wannabe racer' on, and he'd be a MotorGP Champion. Not going to happen, ever.

Quote:
We will use an extensive winter test program to further develop the bike and to adapt it to match Valentinos and our other riders needs.


And again, matching the bikes set up to the riders preferences mostly. 90% of that is all suspension set up to give the rider the feel/feedback he wants from the bike.

You can put Rossi on any MotoGP machine, setup the suspension and tires to his preferences (as *any* rider does), and the guy is gonna win a lot. He has the skill, and thats what wins races.

So, take your misinformation, and SHOOO TROLL!

 

[whitesands]

First of all lets clear up the confusion because the topic has gone into what race teams are using and this is where a huge mix up and straw men are accidentally set up by folks defending their position...

Using an oil labeled as "motorcycle racing oil" on the shelf at your local motorcyle shop will do well in any motorcycle for protecting the engine as long as the correct viscosity is used...However, in many cases it is unlikely that a race team sponsored by repsol or mobil is using the same "motorcycle racing oil" that's readily available on the shelf at retailers...So the entire argument suggesting that the oil that will hold up the best for racing is "what's in the winners circle" is based on incorrectly applied facts....

More than likely the oil on the shelf at the local retailer labeled as "motorcycle racing oil" of the correct viscosity will protect the engine MUCH better then what is really being used by the race teams "in the winners circle"....An oil that is not labled as "motorcycle racing oil" at the correct viscosity will likely protect the engine much better than what is really being used by the race teams as well....Even an oil like castrol GTX 10W40 car oil..........Why ?

Because most of the oils run by race teams are usually ultra low viscosity specialty oils as low as 0W5...If a race team is sponsored by or uses mobil, more than likely they aren't using the 10W40 Mobil oil on the shelf...The engines used by the race teams are far from stock and likely have oil related reliability modifications such as chamferred crankshaft journals and such...The race teams compromise quite a bit of reliability for HP and any HP gained from oil is nearly 100% viscosity related and the HP gained from the lack of viscosity is minimal...The race teams are not concerned about having engines that will last for several years...The engine needs to last the race weekend and that's it so thinking that a "racing oil" will hold up the best under racing conditions because it is a "racing oil" is not correct...A true racing oil is usually very thin and you would not want to use it in your vehicles...It may get you through a race and give you an extra HP or two and be a little freer reving but you'll be lucky if you don't have a major mechanical failure or an engine that wears very quickly.


Unless someone is one of the few who get vehicles dedicated for racing only for free and get their engines rebuilt for free every race by a professional race team it is ill advised to recommend using what the race teams actually use for the average guy that using his personal vehicles to do an ocassional race that is also used as a daily commuter...

The original poster is looking for an oil that will hold up under race conditions for his personal vehicles... Most HDEO's will do extremely well for protecting the engine and they will protect the engine FAR better than a 0W5 racing oil... Mobil racing 4T 10W40 will protect the engine far better than a true racing oil as well....

 

[azsynthetic]

Originally Posted By: Keto
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic


As you can see the bike is developed so that Rossi can ride it.


Developed... uhh, not exactly. Setting it up for his preferences, yes.


Yamaha is not setting up the bike like adjusting the shocks and tire pressure, they are building new engine to put out even more horsepower. You can't win unless the bike can deliver.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/motor...ack-554024.html

Quote:
Quote:
...factorys plans to accommodate him over the next few months.


That statement entails a WIDE variety of logistical and organizational requirements.


They are not talking about room and board for Rossi. Very very few riders can approach the limit of the bike so compromise has to be made between what the riders can do with the bike.

Quote:

Every manufacturer wants to provide a state-of-the-art machine, but it takes a skilled rider to make use of it. By your logic, a factory can develop a machine that you could throw any 'wannabe racer' on, and he'd be a MotorGP Champion. Not going to happen, ever.


I am not saying that the rider needs not be talented. I am saying that the bike is the key and not the rider evident by the fact that so many different riders rode Ducatti/Honda/Aprilla/Yamaha/etc. to victory in world championship racing. If the rider is the key then you would see the same winner race after race and year after year.

Quote:
You can put Rossi on any MotoGP machine, setup the suspension and tires to his preferences (as *any* rider does), and the guy is gonna win a lot. He has the skill, and thats what wins races.

So, take your misinformation, and SHOOO TROLL!


See the link above and learn something about real racing instead of BSing the armchair commando on this board. BTW, that 50cc you are riding is not a race bike, it is called a scooter.

 

[azsynthetic]

Originally Posted By: whitesands

The original poster is looking for an oil that will hold up under race conditions for his personal vehicles... Most HDEO's will do extremely well for protecting the engine and they will protect the engine FAR better than a 0W5 racing oil... Mobil racing 4T 10W40 will protect the engine far better than a true racing oil as well....


The original poster asked specifically if diesel oil will stand up in race condition for his bike. If one is racing to win then one should use the best product for the purpose, i.e. motorcycle race oil. For any other purposes then it comes down to what one can afford.

BTW, Shell has two different motorcycle race oils. Shell Advance Racing Oil - 4T 5W-20 for maximum power with excellent protection or the Advance Racing Engine Oil - 4T 20W-60 for maximum engine protection with high power. It is up to the racer to decide what is best for the circumstances.

 

[Shannow]

So which one does Rossi's bike choose to use when it's winning ?

 

[azsynthetic]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
So which one does Rossi's bike choose to use when it's winning ?


Motul supplies the oil for Rossi's Yamaha.

 

[azsynthetic]

What does Team Suzuki think about motorcycle oil?

http://www.suzuki-racing.com/news_page.aspx?OBJ_ID=7358

 

[heavyhitter]

This just goes to show you how powerful marketing is.
This thread is a prime example of of a marketing sheep.

I'd bet my house that if Azsynthic had Rossi's factory bike and Rossi was on any make, bone stock 600cc sport bike he would repeatedly lap you.

Once at a professional level all of the bike are VERY VERY close to same level or performance, It comes down to rider skill.

Azsynthetic, have YOU ever owned a factory bike?
I have, I owned Dennis Stevenson's Pro Circuit Team Suzuki works bike, I can tell you this, I was'nt any faster whether I used, Motul, PJ1, Bel-Ray, it didnt matter. Having the suspension dialed in and the correct tires for the terrain had 100x more impact than any other factor minus rider skill. I unquestionably had the fastest bike in every race I entered, but that didnt guarantee me a podium finish every race.

 

[heavyhitter]

Ricky Carmichael had a perfect seasons on Kawasaki, Honda, and [censored] near perfect on team Suzuki. This is just ONE of many examples that the bike does not a winner make.

 

[TucsonDon]

www.azsynthetic.com
(An Amsoil dealer in Cave Creek, Arizona)

Screen name: azsynthetic

Coincidence?

 

[dwendt44]

True racing oil has little if any, anti-corrosion aditives or detergents. Racing oil is most often changed every race, and the engine re-built every few races. Those additives aren't needed.

 

[Keto]

Originally Posted By: TucsonDon
www.azsynthetic.com
(An Amsoil dealer in Cave Creek, Arizona)

Screen name: azsynthetic

Coincidence?

LMAO!!!

Dammmm, I called it right before, lol. That explains his nonsensical positions.

Thanks for posting that Don

 

[whitesands]

Many heated oil discussions involves an Amsoil dealers fact twisting...Not even worth it guys...It takes to much time just trying to undo the bird nest of confusion they create before any real discussion can begin...

 

[azsynthetic]

Originally Posted By: TucsonDon
www.azsynthetic.com
(An Amsoil dealer in Cave Creek, Arizona)

Screen name: azsynthetic

Coincidence?

Just a coincidence. I don't live in Cave Creek and I am not associated with the website http://www.azsynthetic.com in any way, shape or form except for the spelling. Nice try though.