^ looks like the oil temp is still climbing at the end of time scale
Define "short trip"
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Maybe this is easier to read.....
Code:
Time Speed IAT ECT EOT Ambient
Wed Jun 12 16:32:00 3 25 50 31 24
Wed Jun 12 16:33:00 13 26 59 33 24
Wed Jun 12 16:34:00 13 26 69 38 24
Wed Jun 12 16:35:00 48 26 76 42 24
Wed Jun 12 16:36:00 76 25 86 48 24
Wed Jun 12 16:37:00 92 24 91 56 24
Wed Jun 12 16:38:00 93 24 92 63 23
Wed Jun 12 16:39:00 86 24 92 69 23
Wed Jun 12 16:40:00 80 24 92 73 23
Wed Jun 12 16:41:00 68 25 92 76 23
Wed Jun 12 16:42:00 32 25 93 78 23
Wed Jun 12 16:43:00 81 25 94 81 23
Wed Jun 12 16:44:01 88 24 91 83 23
Wed Jun 12 16:45:00 75 24 92 85 23
Wed Jun 12 16:46:00 75 25 93 86 23
Wed Jun 12 16:47:00 63 24 93 87 23
Wed Jun 12 16:48:00 78 24 92 88 23
Wed Jun 12 16:49:00 98 24 92 90 22
Code:
Time Speed IAT ECT EOT Ambient
Wed Jun 12 16:32:00 3 25 50 31 24
Wed Jun 12 16:33:00 13 26 59 33 24
Wed Jun 12 16:34:00 13 26 69 38 24
Wed Jun 12 16:35:00 48 26 76 42 24
Wed Jun 12 16:36:00 76 25 86 48 24
Wed Jun 12 16:37:00 92 24 91 56 24
Wed Jun 12 16:38:00 93 24 92 63 23
Wed Jun 12 16:39:00 86 24 92 69 23
Wed Jun 12 16:40:00 80 24 92 73 23
Wed Jun 12 16:41:00 68 25 92 76 23
Wed Jun 12 16:42:00 32 25 93 78 23
Wed Jun 12 16:43:00 81 25 94 81 23
Wed Jun 12 16:44:01 88 24 91 83 23
Wed Jun 12 16:45:00 75 24 92 85 23
Wed Jun 12 16:46:00 75 25 93 86 23
Wed Jun 12 16:47:00 63 24 93 87 23
Wed Jun 12 16:48:00 78 24 92 88 23
Wed Jun 12 16:49:00 98 24 92 90 22
^ so in 17 minutes its gone from 31 to 90
Originally Posted By: Errtt
^ looks like the oil temp is still climbing at the end of time scale
It was but I am heading to bed and didn't want to spend too much time on the graph....
It hit 100 in another 9.5 minutes, most of it above 115kph, that was also the peak. Coolant topped out at 102 after I was back in town and the oil was back down to 98. That car has a coolant/oil cooler.
^ looks like the oil temp is still climbing at the end of time scale
It was but I am heading to bed and didn't want to spend too much time on the graph....
It hit 100 in another 9.5 minutes, most of it above 115kph, that was also the peak. Coolant topped out at 102 after I was back in town and the oil was back down to 98. That car has a coolant/oil cooler.
Originally Posted By: Errtt
^ so in 17 minutes its gone from 31 to 90
Yep
^ so in 17 minutes its gone from 31 to 90
Yep
Originally Posted By: Cooper
Honestly, if I drive for 4-5 minutes then drain the oil, it is so hot draining that I can't touch it for long. I think the oil gets up to temp a lot faster than most are saying here. I can drive it for an hour and drain the oil and it still feels about the same....
It can get up to full operating temps faster if there's a water-cooled oil cooler, like with my last two cars. My coolant temp gauge can get up to its regulated temp quickly under mild driving (I try not to idle too long) and my understanding is that tends to warm up the oil faster after startup.
Honestly, if I drive for 4-5 minutes then drain the oil, it is so hot draining that I can't touch it for long. I think the oil gets up to temp a lot faster than most are saying here. I can drive it for an hour and drain the oil and it still feels about the same....
It can get up to full operating temps faster if there's a water-cooled oil cooler, like with my last two cars. My coolant temp gauge can get up to its regulated temp quickly under mild driving (I try not to idle too long) and my understanding is that tends to warm up the oil faster after startup.
Oil temp needs to get to ~ 180F to start evaporating moisture. This from old Porsche factory data, Ed
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
It can get up to full operating temps faster if there's a water-cooled oil cooler, like with my last two cars.
Which the car from the log had.
My experience is that the oil isn't hot as quick as some think. That experience is only with the one car however and I am sure that they are all somewhat different. The Pentastar, which also has a coolant/oil cooler, in the Charger appears to behave about the same I just haven't logged anything yet.
It can get up to full operating temps faster if there's a water-cooled oil cooler, like with my last two cars.
Which the car from the log had.
My experience is that the oil isn't hot as quick as some think. That experience is only with the one car however and I am sure that they are all somewhat different. The Pentastar, which also has a coolant/oil cooler, in the Charger appears to behave about the same I just haven't logged anything yet.
Simple. The way I do it is not scientific but it works for me. 5k or six month which ever comes first. Mine at 6 month interval is 2.5K with the most being 3.5k. I run Valvoline synthetic blend max life.
In temperatures over 70 degrees F, any drive of 15 miles or more.
So many variables. Wildly platform specific.
Car A with a 4 cylinder and a very small coolant volume and a 3 quart sump may warm up to full temp before you get out of the neighborhood.
Car B could be a huge iron block V8 with 4 times or more the volume of coolant and 7 quarts of oil in it. Needless to say the warm up times vary a bit.
In my car with the large sump it can take 10-12 miles of driving to warm the coolant up to temp, and the oil is just a bit behind that, eventually the coolant is 30 degrees or so under oil temp.
Car A with a 4 cylinder and a very small coolant volume and a 3 quart sump may warm up to full temp before you get out of the neighborhood.
Car B could be a huge iron block V8 with 4 times or more the volume of coolant and 7 quarts of oil in it. Needless to say the warm up times vary a bit.
In my car with the large sump it can take 10-12 miles of driving to warm the coolant up to temp, and the oil is just a bit behind that, eventually the coolant is 30 degrees or so under oil temp.
I don't drive "severe" all the time and why call it "normal" if nobody meets the criteria. Half the week for me is short trips to work and my days off I do more long drives. I just change right in the middle of the two numbers which is about 5k.
Under controlled conditions of 75F ambient temperatures and around 50 percent relative humidity it takes around 20 minutes for test V-6 engines to get up to normal operating temperatures. This is oil temperature, as the water heats up in about 2 minutes. These conditions are under full throttle.
For the average drive it takes a good 30 minutes for oil temperatures to stabilize.
My definition of short trip is the time is takes sump oil to get up to the normal average running temperature. Some would argue that it is longer in order to burn off some of the moisture in the oil.
Humidity is an independent cause of engine wear. In high humidity weather, I would increase the length of time the engine is running in the "short trip" classification.
aehaas
For the average drive it takes a good 30 minutes for oil temperatures to stabilize.
My definition of short trip is the time is takes sump oil to get up to the normal average running temperature. Some would argue that it is longer in order to burn off some of the moisture in the oil.
Humidity is an independent cause of engine wear. In high humidity weather, I would increase the length of time the engine is running in the "short trip" classification.
aehaas
Originally Posted By: Cooper
Honestly, if I drive for 4-5 minutes then drain the oil, it is so hot draining that I can't touch it for long. I think the oil gets up to temp a lot faster than most are saying here. I can drive it for an hour and drain the oil and it still feels about the same....
Hmm, I don't know that being hot to the touch is exactly the same thing as being all the way to operating temperature. I mean at some point most humans probably loose the ability to differentiate between tifferent levels of "blistering hot".
Certainly on a warm or mild day 3-4 minutes gets it plenty hot enough to circulate and protect against excessive wear, but stubborn contaminants might take hotter temperatures and more time to cook off or be neutralized by the oil's detergents?
Its probably simillar to boilling contaminated water, it's not just about getting the temperature to a magic number - that will kill some of the germs - but to kill them all you have to leave it to boil for a while.
Honestly, if I drive for 4-5 minutes then drain the oil, it is so hot draining that I can't touch it for long. I think the oil gets up to temp a lot faster than most are saying here. I can drive it for an hour and drain the oil and it still feels about the same....
Hmm, I don't know that being hot to the touch is exactly the same thing as being all the way to operating temperature. I mean at some point most humans probably loose the ability to differentiate between tifferent levels of "blistering hot".
Certainly on a warm or mild day 3-4 minutes gets it plenty hot enough to circulate and protect against excessive wear, but stubborn contaminants might take hotter temperatures and more time to cook off or be neutralized by the oil's detergents?
Its probably simillar to boilling contaminated water, it's not just about getting the temperature to a magic number - that will kill some of the germs - but to kill them all you have to leave it to boil for a while.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Darris
Originally Posted By: Cooper
Honestly, if I drive for 4-5 minutes then drain the oil, it is so hot draining that I can't touch it for long. I think the oil gets up to temp a lot faster than most are saying here. I can drive it for an hour and drain the oil and it still feels about the same....
Hmm, I don't know that being hot to the touch is exactly the same thing as being all the way to operating temperature. I mean at some point most humans probably loose the ability to differentiate between tifferent levels of "blistering hot".
Certainly on a warm or mild day 3-4 minutes gets it plenty hot enough to circulate and protect against excessive wear, but stubborn contaminants might take hotter temperatures and more time to cook off or be neutralized by the oil's detergents?
Its probably simillar to boilling contaminated water, it's not just about getting the temperature to a magic number - that will kill some of the germs - but to kill them all you have to leave it to boil for a while.
Very astute.
It is all about DURATION at temp, water is evaporating even at very low temps just above ambient. But that isn't the only contaminant you can flash off with HOT oil at SUSTAINED temps...
Originally Posted By: Cooper
Honestly, if I drive for 4-5 minutes then drain the oil, it is so hot draining that I can't touch it for long. I think the oil gets up to temp a lot faster than most are saying here. I can drive it for an hour and drain the oil and it still feels about the same....
Hmm, I don't know that being hot to the touch is exactly the same thing as being all the way to operating temperature. I mean at some point most humans probably loose the ability to differentiate between tifferent levels of "blistering hot".
Certainly on a warm or mild day 3-4 minutes gets it plenty hot enough to circulate and protect against excessive wear, but stubborn contaminants might take hotter temperatures and more time to cook off or be neutralized by the oil's detergents?
Its probably simillar to boilling contaminated water, it's not just about getting the temperature to a magic number - that will kill some of the germs - but to kill them all you have to leave it to boil for a while.
Very astute.
It is all about DURATION at temp, water is evaporating even at very low temps just above ambient. But that isn't the only contaminant you can flash off with HOT oil at SUSTAINED temps...
Interesting thread. A couple of questions though...
1. What does WOT stand for? It's not in the acronym list, and yes I checked.
2. So it is fairly widely accepted that keeping the RPM's below 2,000 is preffered until the oil temp reaches 170F?
3. That the oil should stabilize around 200F once it's fully "at temperature"?
My car revs at about 2,300RPM on a cold start up right off the bat until it idles down slowly. This is just with the turn of they and NO gas. I've never liked this about my my car and have always felt it fires up at too high of an RPM, especially on cold winter starts. Once warmed up it idles around 900 RPM. The only way to reduce that start up auto-idle RPM of 2300 (that auto reduces over several minutes) is to put some load on the vehicle, even if that is to put it into gear and move slowly without any pressure on the gas, but I'm thinking that "load" is not deseriable either correct? Thoughts on this?
I'm going to hook up my OBD2 canncer to it tomorrow morning and see how long mine takes to get to 170F after the cold start and see if I can keep it under 2,000 RPM until then..albeit my start up auto-idle flashes it up to 2300 RPM to start...
1. What does WOT stand for? It's not in the acronym list, and yes I checked.
2. So it is fairly widely accepted that keeping the RPM's below 2,000 is preffered until the oil temp reaches 170F?
3. That the oil should stabilize around 200F once it's fully "at temperature"?
My car revs at about 2,300RPM on a cold start up right off the bat until it idles down slowly. This is just with the turn of they and NO gas. I've never liked this about my my car and have always felt it fires up at too high of an RPM, especially on cold winter starts. Once warmed up it idles around 900 RPM. The only way to reduce that start up auto-idle RPM of 2300 (that auto reduces over several minutes) is to put some load on the vehicle, even if that is to put it into gear and move slowly without any pressure on the gas, but I'm thinking that "load" is not deseriable either correct? Thoughts on this?
I'm going to hook up my OBD2 canncer to it tomorrow morning and see how long mine takes to get to 170F after the cold start and see if I can keep it under 2,000 RPM until then..albeit my start up auto-idle flashes it up to 2300 RPM to start...
Originally Posted By: Verminator
Interesting thread. A couple of questions though...
1. What does WOT stand for? It's not in the acronym list, and yes I checked.
2. So it is fairly widely accepted that keeping the RPM's below 2,000 is preffered until the oil temp reaches 170F?
3. That the oil should stabilize around 200F once it's fully "at temperature"?
My car revs at about 2,300RPM on a cold start up right off the bat until it idles down slowly. This is just with the turn of they and NO gas. I've never liked this about my my car and have always felt it fires up at too high of an RPM, especially on cold winter starts. Once warmed up it idles around 900 RPM. The only way to reduce that start up auto-idle RPM of 2300 (that auto reduces over several minutes) is to put some load on the vehicle, even if that is to put it into gear and move slowly without any pressure on the gas, but I'm thinking that "load" is not desirable either correct? Thoughts on this?
I'm going to hook up my OBD2 canncer to it tomorrow morning and see how long mine takes to get to 170F after the cold start and see if I can keep it under 2,000 RPM until then..albeit my start up auto-idle flashes it up to 2300 RPM to start...
WOT stand for Wide Open Throttle.
You should not rev to redline until oil temp is more than 170F. I usually keep the rev below 2000 RPM for the first mile, up to 2500 RPM second miles, 3000 RPM third mile..
The Honda S2000 will stall with 5th and 6th gear at 2000 RPM, so that I add 500 RPM(2000 RPM in other cars 2500 for S2000) to it during cold start.
It depends on ambient temperature, oil temperature may not get to 200F when air temperature is -20F, when ambient temperature is north of 110F oil temp can be 220-230F or higher if you keep the engine running at 5-6k RPM.
Interesting thread. A couple of questions though...
1. What does WOT stand for? It's not in the acronym list, and yes I checked.
2. So it is fairly widely accepted that keeping the RPM's below 2,000 is preffered until the oil temp reaches 170F?
3. That the oil should stabilize around 200F once it's fully "at temperature"?
My car revs at about 2,300RPM on a cold start up right off the bat until it idles down slowly. This is just with the turn of they and NO gas. I've never liked this about my my car and have always felt it fires up at too high of an RPM, especially on cold winter starts. Once warmed up it idles around 900 RPM. The only way to reduce that start up auto-idle RPM of 2300 (that auto reduces over several minutes) is to put some load on the vehicle, even if that is to put it into gear and move slowly without any pressure on the gas, but I'm thinking that "load" is not desirable either correct? Thoughts on this?
I'm going to hook up my OBD2 canncer to it tomorrow morning and see how long mine takes to get to 170F after the cold start and see if I can keep it under 2,000 RPM until then..albeit my start up auto-idle flashes it up to 2300 RPM to start...
WOT stand for Wide Open Throttle.
You should not rev to redline until oil temp is more than 170F. I usually keep the rev below 2000 RPM for the first mile, up to 2500 RPM second miles, 3000 RPM third mile..
The Honda S2000 will stall with 5th and 6th gear at 2000 RPM, so that I add 500 RPM(2000 RPM in other cars 2500 for S2000) to it during cold start.
It depends on ambient temperature, oil temperature may not get to 200F when air temperature is -20F, when ambient temperature is north of 110F oil temp can be 220-230F or higher if you keep the engine running at 5-6k RPM.
The rpm will be platform dependent as stated above. It's better to run a few rpm too high than risk lugging. Keeping the load low is the most important. Anything below 3000 as long as the engine is running "effortlessly" is OK.
My experience with cars that have had oil temperature gauges agrees with those that say anything under 20 minutes should be considered a short trip.
Ed
My experience with cars that have had oil temperature gauges agrees with those that say anything under 20 minutes should be considered a short trip.
Ed
Originally Posted By: Zero
I've checked both of my owners manuals, one from Pontiac and one from Chevrolet and neither define the mileage used to designate a "short trip" which requires more frequent oil changes. Both manuals state if the OLM light comes on before 10 months use the severe service maintenance schedule or if the OLM comes on after 10 months use the normal service maintenance schedule.
Anyhow, what is the general consensus of the mileage that would constitute short-trip driving?
Industry standard is 10 Miles/16 Kilometers.
I've checked both of my owners manuals, one from Pontiac and one from Chevrolet and neither define the mileage used to designate a "short trip" which requires more frequent oil changes. Both manuals state if the OLM light comes on before 10 months use the severe service maintenance schedule or if the OLM comes on after 10 months use the normal service maintenance schedule.
Anyhow, what is the general consensus of the mileage that would constitute short-trip driving?
Industry standard is 10 Miles/16 Kilometers.
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