OK, so I think I've got all of this. Motor oil in a landfill will eventually breakdown, but it will be a very slow process because it's anaerobic and there are few nutrients. Any oil in a landfill that finds its way down and is collected as leachate, is treated. However even the most modern landfills may have some leakage to the ground water. How is it possible that they are allowed to leak all the chemical dangers in landfills to the surrounding area? Why can't they manufacture a lining that is truly impermeable? Surely anything that is getting out is monitored for safety? I know we are going off the field of 'oil' but I'm gobsmacked (amazed) that modern landfills are allowed to let anything that is untreated out - it must be so dangerous. (And I'm moving because I live a mile from a massive modern 'hazardous waste' one, which will be collecting waste for the next seven or more years.)
Decomposition of motor oil
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We used to pour used oil into an ivy patch in the backyard a long time ago, decades. The ivy grew like crazy, spread out, nice and green, and when they dug that spot out for a shed after years of dumping oil there, it was just the same old red clay and topsoil as anywhere else in the yard. It was a level patch of ground, so it didn't run off. It wasn't a lot of oil, 5 quarts a few months apart, maybe a quart from the mower once a year, but those ivy plants loved it!
Go figure
Go figure
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Originally Posted By: Georgia
OK, so I think I've got all of this. Motor oil in a landfill will eventually breakdown, but it will be a very slow process because it's anaerobic and there are few nutrients. Any oil in a landfill that finds its way down and is collected as leachate, is treated. However even the most modern landfills may have some leakage to the ground water. How is it possible that they are allowed to leak all the chemical dangers in landfills to the surrounding area? Why can't they manufacture a lining that is truly impermeable? Surely anything that is getting out is monitored for safety? I know we are going off the field of 'oil' but I'm gobsmacked (amazed) that modern landfills are allowed to let anything that is untreated out - it must be so dangerous. (And I'm moving because I live a mile from a massive modern 'hazardous waste' one, which will be collecting waste for the next seven or more years.)
Landfills are massive. Just think of how hard it is to seal one subterranean basement from ground water if the table is too high or the drainage in the area too poor. Clay and whatnot usually work, as do HDPE welded seam sheets (usually used for capping the top ..but can be used on the base too). Think of the tremendous compacting and distorting that takes place.
So, you build them as best you can and attempt to restrict what goes in them. You also have monitoring wells around the thing to determine what is migrating into the ground water.
It may become necessary to install true pumping wells that draw the surrounding ground water toward them ..and then treat that water. We had this at our plant.
The old Clean Water Act allowed us (before my time) just discharge our toxic concentrated waste on the ground with only a $600/day fine. The fine was reduced to $250/day due to using an earthen empoundment where it was "ground filtered". This ended shortly after Agnus. The plant installed well at the former location of the discharge and that was used as the main plant water supply to the processes.
Where solvents are involved, air strippers may be employed. Hooker Chemical (down the street) does this to remove (iirc) TCE that was dumped there from as far back as WWII and Firestone's usage of the site.
OK, so I think I've got all of this. Motor oil in a landfill will eventually breakdown, but it will be a very slow process because it's anaerobic and there are few nutrients. Any oil in a landfill that finds its way down and is collected as leachate, is treated. However even the most modern landfills may have some leakage to the ground water. How is it possible that they are allowed to leak all the chemical dangers in landfills to the surrounding area? Why can't they manufacture a lining that is truly impermeable? Surely anything that is getting out is monitored for safety? I know we are going off the field of 'oil' but I'm gobsmacked (amazed) that modern landfills are allowed to let anything that is untreated out - it must be so dangerous. (And I'm moving because I live a mile from a massive modern 'hazardous waste' one, which will be collecting waste for the next seven or more years.)
Landfills are massive. Just think of how hard it is to seal one subterranean basement from ground water if the table is too high or the drainage in the area too poor. Clay and whatnot usually work, as do HDPE welded seam sheets (usually used for capping the top ..but can be used on the base too). Think of the tremendous compacting and distorting that takes place.
So, you build them as best you can and attempt to restrict what goes in them. You also have monitoring wells around the thing to determine what is migrating into the ground water.
It may become necessary to install true pumping wells that draw the surrounding ground water toward them ..and then treat that water. We had this at our plant.
The old Clean Water Act allowed us (before my time) just discharge our toxic concentrated waste on the ground with only a $600/day fine. The fine was reduced to $250/day due to using an earthen empoundment where it was "ground filtered". This ended shortly after Agnus. The plant installed well at the former location of the discharge and that was used as the main plant water supply to the processes.
Where solvents are involved, air strippers may be employed. Hooker Chemical (down the street) does this to remove (iirc) TCE that was dumped there from as far back as WWII and Firestone's usage of the site.
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Originally Posted By: toocrazy2yoo
We used to pour used oil into an ivy patch in the backyard a long time ago, decades. The ivy grew like crazy, spread out, nice and green, and when they dug that spot out for a shed after years of dumping oil there, it was just the same old red clay and topsoil as anywhere else in the yard. It was a level patch of ground, so it didn't run off. It wasn't a lot of oil, 5 quarts a few months apart, maybe a quart from the mower once a year, but those ivy plants loved it!
Go figure
Wonder if some good old used motor oil would get rid of some massive poison ivy infestation? Seems like nothing can kill that stuff! You try to spray Roundup or something on it,and it grows back thicker and laughing at you!
We used to pour used oil into an ivy patch in the backyard a long time ago, decades. The ivy grew like crazy, spread out, nice and green, and when they dug that spot out for a shed after years of dumping oil there, it was just the same old red clay and topsoil as anywhere else in the yard. It was a level patch of ground, so it didn't run off. It wasn't a lot of oil, 5 quarts a few months apart, maybe a quart from the mower once a year, but those ivy plants loved it!
Go figure
Wonder if some good old used motor oil would get rid of some massive poison ivy infestation? Seems like nothing can kill that stuff! You try to spray Roundup or something on it,and it grows back thicker and laughing at you!
Another thing, as I understand it, Zinc isn't toxic, after all it's used in vitamins. I doubt that is there is very much oil percentage wise being dumped currently into landfills. And the oil portion came out of the ground to begin with-the only real hazard would be any toxic ingredients as a result of the combustion process that gets absorbed by the oil.
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Well I suppose that any oil that did escape from the landfill leaking, would then be in the soil and would degrade more quickly because it would more likely have the nutrients needed for decomposition.
Also, after alarming myself about living near a landfill, I read a little about them. As they are now built where any leakage would not get into groundwater, I suppose that the environmental hazard is immeasurably small when motor oil is deposited in landfill. Not sure about older landfills though.....
Also, after alarming myself about living near a landfill, I read a little about them. As they are now built where any leakage would not get into groundwater, I suppose that the environmental hazard is immeasurably small when motor oil is deposited in landfill. Not sure about older landfills though.....
I am glad you chose to recycle. Used motor oil is a resource. Bioremediation and landfarming are acceptable methods of treating waste but the prefered method is to distinguish between "waste" which means it won't be used again and Non-waste which is capable of being reused or recycled in some way. Our challenge is to reduce true waste and keep it out of the landfill.
As far as used oil it shouldn't be "waste"
As far as used oil it shouldn't be "waste"
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It's hard to tell what was dumped into older landfills.
paint, solvents, flourescent lights, batteries, all kinds of bad stuff.
Hummmmmmm! Just thinking. One of the earliest sources of petroleum was skimming it off Oil Creek in Pennsylvania. It was a natural part of the environment. Then Drake ruined it.
Originally Posted By: wannafbody
Another thing, as I understand it, Zinc isn't toxic, after all it's used in vitamins. I doubt that is there is very much oil percentage wise being dumped currently into landfills. And the oil portion came out of the ground to begin with-the only real hazard would be any toxic ingredients as a result of the combustion process that gets absorbed by the oil.
Actually zinc is toxic in greater concentration, as are many (if not most) substances/elements.
Another thing, as I understand it, Zinc isn't toxic, after all it's used in vitamins. I doubt that is there is very much oil percentage wise being dumped currently into landfills. And the oil portion came out of the ground to begin with-the only real hazard would be any toxic ingredients as a result of the combustion process that gets absorbed by the oil.
Actually zinc is toxic in greater concentration, as are many (if not most) substances/elements.
I'm wondering what it would it decompose into?
BTW, we can artificially make oil in 20 minutes from organic matter with heat and pressure. Not cost efficient for mass production, but the earth had no such restraints.
BTW, we can artificially make oil in 20 minutes from organic matter with heat and pressure. Not cost efficient for mass production, but the earth had no such restraints.
So, what does oil decompose into then? And what 'environmentally hazardous' materials are likely to be included as 'additives' and still present after the decomposition?
It will break down from it's state into its elements of Hydrogen and carbon. If mixed with other organic materials such as in a compost it will form a humus as it breaks down. Volatiles will be emitted into the atmosphere if there is not enough carbon to absorb it. (carbon acts like a sponge to volatiles like nitorgen)
Bacteria uses Carbon as energy and Nitrogen as bodybuilding elements (like protein). As bacteria and Fungi and other micro fona feed on the oil they die and are fed on for hundreds of generations changing the orignial material to simpler material.
Bacteria uses Carbon as energy and Nitrogen as bodybuilding elements (like protein). As bacteria and Fungi and other micro fona feed on the oil they die and are fed on for hundreds of generations changing the orignial material to simpler material.
What environmentally hazardous chemicals are in the additives though?
And don't all these things just come out of the exhaust of a car as you're driving along?
And don't all these things just come out of the exhaust of a car as you're driving along?
Heavy metals,metallic additives and many of the combustion byproducts are left behind, think of them as salts they do not break down far other than breaking up any esters or fats(bacteria treats them the same) they are carried in. Aromatics such as benzene from burning gasoline that contains benzene(this hydrocarbon is what makes used oil so nasty to handle for our health and why I recomend Nitrile gloves for oil change) slow the decomposition process but are eventually volatized into atmosphere if they are in a aerobic situation, if they are burried beyond air exchange they travel with water.
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Don't these heavy metals and metallic additives come out in the exhaust fumes when the oil is used in the engine?
Some of it yes.
Aren't some of these things also released when oil is processed for recycling?
Originally Posted By: wcbcruzer
Motor oil is not biodegradable like vegetable oil. It won't decompose. After all, it's been in the Earth for millions of years before we pulled it out!
That's not necessarily true. There are naturally occurring bacteria that break down petrochemicals, albeit very slowly and the bacteria themselves don't occur just everywhere in the dirt. Crude deposits underground at extreme depth, temperature, and pressure can't be attacked by bacteria- its a sterile environment. But when the oil is just under trash in a landfill, it certainly can be decomposed if the right bacteria can get to it. The more interesting question would be where to all the metallic compounds in the additive packages go.
Motor oil is not biodegradable like vegetable oil. It won't decompose. After all, it's been in the Earth for millions of years before we pulled it out!
That's not necessarily true. There are naturally occurring bacteria that break down petrochemicals, albeit very slowly and the bacteria themselves don't occur just everywhere in the dirt. Crude deposits underground at extreme depth, temperature, and pressure can't be attacked by bacteria- its a sterile environment. But when the oil is just under trash in a landfill, it certainly can be decomposed if the right bacteria can get to it. The more interesting question would be where to all the metallic compounds in the additive packages go.
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