Debating a cocktail for my next change...thoughts?

[dparm]

I'm less than 1000 miles away from my next change so it's time to order up some oil. Lots of you are big fans of the oil cocktails so it got me thinking.



1:1 Renewable Lube 0w30 & 5w40
VI: 191
KV @ 40: 71.2
KV @ 100: 13.2
HTHS: 4.000


1:1 Redline 0w30 & 0w40
VI: 190
KV @ 40: 67.8
KV @ 100: 12.8
HTHS: 3.600


1:1 Motul 300V 0w20 & 5w40
VI: 177
KV @ 40: 60.5
KV @ 100: 10.9
HTHS: 3.595



Logic tells me that the 300V cocktail should give the best shear resistance since it has HTHS 3.6 with relatively low KV values. Funny thing is that the specs on that cocktail end up aligning almost identically to straight 300V 5w30, but with a VI about 8% higher at 177 (versus 162). I'm slightly biased since I've run 300V for a while in my car now with excellent results.

The Redline and RLI cocktails offer lower shear resistance (10-20% less) but with VIs about 7-8% higher (about 190).

So it's a tough call. What's more important, a higher viscosity index or higher shear resistance? For my specific application, methinks the shear resistance might be better. But we're talking about three oils that are nearly shear-proof anyways.


Car is a 2005 Audi S4 (4.2L 40V V8 FSI). Not a DD and sits for extended periods in a climate controlled garage. Predominantly city driving but occasional highway. Gets out on the track in the warmer months, and is driven aggressively year round. Sump is 9.6qt/9.1L. It's spec'd for ACEA A3/B4, VW 502/505 oils.

 

[d00df00d]

What do you expect to gain from mixing oils that you couldn't get from any individual oil on its own?

 

[dparm]

Should add that straight Redline 0w40 is very impressive, perhaps one of the most impressive oils I've come across:


VI: 197
KV @ 40: 81.0
KV @ 100: 15.1
HTHS: 4.0


Those relatively high KV values compared to the HTHS are a bit troubling though, probably points to lower shear resistance than the other Redline varieties out there.

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
What do you expect to gain from mixing oils that you couldn't get from any individual oil on its own?


Bragging rights, duh.

 

[Eddie]

Waste of time and may even be counter productive. All three of these companies do very well in formulating their own cocktails into one very good oil.

 

[Donald]

Get some PU from Walmart. Brag that you are using one of the best oils made. And it will clean the varnish. Another benefit is that you can get a used oil analysis done and the lab can make sense of the oil you used.

 

[Hallmark]

A backyard chemist can always outsmart a petroleum engineer!

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
What do you expect to gain from mixing oils that you couldn't get from any individual oil on its own?

But that's the point you can't.
All dparm is doing if fine tuning the viscosity characteristics of oils with the same chemistry. RL for one actually recommends the practice.

dparm, with RLI I'd use their 0w30 straight as it is heavy enough with a HTHSV in the 3.6-3.8cP range.

RL 50/50 0W-30/0W-40 mix is good.

The Motul 300V 0W-20/5W-40 blend I like and I think it's better than Motul's own 5w30.

Of the three brands I'd probabily lean towards RL with RLI and Motul tied for 2nd place.

The shear question is ignorance based, or rather the fact you're driving blind without an oil pressure gauge. For street use it's not an issue as all three oils will actually be heavier than necessary. For track use one should have an OP gauge.

 

[dparm]

I know I know, I need an OP gauge. Next car will have one from the factory, I promise. From what I have seen, the 300V (and even Lubro-Moly's Synthoil 5w40) do not fall out of grade in this motor with my driving habits. Shear is probably not relevant.

The RL mix will likely be the winner since it keeps the HTHS right around what Audi specifies. No point in running something with 4.0 or even 4.5; my motor showed no change in wear when I went from a 4.5 to 3.6 oil.

RLI's straight 0w30 is interesting but I'm still nervous when the president only admits the HTHS is 3.6-3.7 as an anecdote when I call him directly.

I am admittedly a bit of a sucker for Motul's 300V products since they've served me well in the past.

 

[zyxelenator]

Originally Posted By: Hallmark
A backyard chemist can always outsmart a petroleum engineer!
petroleum engineers work to meet company goals,they care about lowering cost, not making perfect oil, especially perfect oil for specific car..

 

[dparm]

Correct, and there's only so many products they'll reasonably offer.

 

[civic09]

I asked a blending question, and I learned a ton. Dont blend oils PERIOD. I have always used Pennzoil Conventional in my civic, and before that I used Super Tech 5W30 in my older corolla I had. I wouldnt blend oils at all, just find a oil that works for you and use it.


thats my thought on the "blend/cocktail"

 

[dparm]

Redline openly admits you can mix their oils to get your own blend. Motul's techs/engineers have said it's safe too (confirmed on their technical data sheets)

 

[TFB1]

Considerating the wide range of temps and operating conditions, there is no perfect oil and those that dream up these concoctions are mostly kidding themselves... Sure by monitoring pressure and temps, one can get in a general range but one can no doubt do same with a single off the shelf product... I don't have a problem with mixing weights of the same oil to thin/thicken for a bit closer match, but that's where I draw the line...

 

[civic09]

I wouldnt mix weights or brands myself, as what do you hope to gain??

adam

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: dparm

Red LineI's straight 0w30 is interesting but I'm still nervous when the president only admits the HTHS is 3.6-3.7 as an anecdote when I call him directly.

Red LineI is such a tiny formulator that there is a major variation in their oils from batch to batch. I like the chemistry of their oils and the naturally high VIs but if you want to play it safe it's probabily best to run these oils in cars equipped with an OP gauge just so you know precisely the viscosity of the oil your using.
Originally Posted By: dparm

I am admittedly a bit of a sucker for Motul's 300V products since they've served me well in the past.

One of the few Motul oil I like a lot is the 300V 0W-20.
The reason is because it's the lightest ester based oil you can buy (HTHSV 2.68cP) and it has a decent 177 VI. Other than that I prefer the Red Line 0W-XX range.

 

[A_Harman]

How much do you pay for Motul's oils?
Motul's and Red Line's oils have similar viscosity characteristics and shear stability, but Red Line has better flash points.
For track use in hot weather, I would prefer the Motul blend.
For street use in cold weather, the Red Line blend.

 

[dparm]

I can get 300V for $12/L, same as Redline.

I just wish the new 300V 0w40 would come out already. Until then, a blend of Redline 0w30 and 0w40 will likely be my choice.

 

[A_Harman]

That's a better price than I can find for Motul. Around here, it's $15/L, and RL is $11/qt.

Pardon my bold-face shilling for Red Line, but why not a blend of their 0w20 & 5w40?

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
That's a better price than I can find for Motul. Around here, it's $15/L, and RL is $11/qt.

Pardon my bold-face shilling for Red Line, but why not a blend of their 0w20 & 5w40?



Redline is now $11.50/qt around here.

Both of those have relatively low VIs compared to 0w30 (183) and 0w40 (197)