Dealership error - seeking advice (Caterham?!)

[oiltard]

The itch to change out my 2005 Civic's oil and get some Toyota 0w20 in there had become too strong, and the weather in NJ was getting too cold, so last Saturday, I put the car up on the ramps and went to work. Sent a sample from the previous fill of Royal Purple 5w20 off to Blackstone and filled that watery Toyota goodness up to the center point between the dipstick dots.

Even though the car only has 53k miles (37k of that in the 21 months since I bought it), I decided to take advantage of a coupon match and have my local Honda dealer do the timing belt. Picked it up this morning and noticed a "next service due" sticker.

I called the dealership to ask what gives, and she put me on hold and went to talk to the tech who worked on my car. Said he misread one of the instructions and changed the oil accidentally. This means my Wix filter and Toyota 0w20 got ditched with only 200 miles for much heavier Honda bulk 5w20.
I was impressed that they were honest, and negotiated a large credit for the excellent oil and filter they wasted, but my question is what now? I'm thinking I'll just use my extractor to get all the bulk oil out of there and refill with the Toyota 0w20 without changing the filter. It's supposed to snow tonight.

Are there any other good options? I guess my other choice would be to get real religious about plugging in my block heater (yes I have a block heater on a 2005 Civic in New Jersey) and leave it in for 3k? Will a sample be useless if I drain the bulk oil and run Toyota 0w20 for 7k miles because of the bulk junk left in the blue Honda filter?

Or should I suck it up, get down & dirty in the snow, and change everything? Any option of lightening up the bulk 5w20 with MMO or other?

On a side note,I requested they not toss the parts they replaced, and the returned used items look good enough to sell as new off the shelf. Anybody think I was duped into wasting $450 based on the time interval and that the timing belt kit should really only be changed based on mileage?

 

[demarpaint]

Odds are the 5W20 will be fine, especially for 3K miles. If OCD gets the best of you, then dump everything and start over. Or drain the oil, unscrew the filter dump the oil from it, reuse it and refill with 0W20 Toyota oil and call it a day.

 

[bluesubie]

Don't worry anout the oil, you're fine. I've heard of timing belts snapping that actually showed no wear so that was probably a smart move as well. Think of it as insurance.

-Dennis

 

[Quattro Pete]

You are way overthinking this. Don't sweat it and just run that oil for the next interval. You're in New Jersey, not at the North Pole.

People have used 5W-XX oils in your conditions for decades, before there were 0W-XX oils available, and I haven't heard about any catastrophic engine failures due to this fact.

 

[oiltard]

I know the 5w20 will be fine. it's actually the original spec. I guess I was just really itching to get some 0w20 in there after all I've learned on BITOG, (drained RP 5w20 after only 6100 miles. UOA report to follow), and then it got accidentally dumped only 200 miles later.

0w20 is back spec'ed for the car, so I really wanted that in there, especially for the winter months.

demar, we're supposed to get a few inches of snow tonight. I already suffered through lying on the ice cold ground to change this horizontally mounted filter once. I'm not sure I'm willing to do it again over getting 1/4 quart of perfectly good Honda OEM oil out of the Honda OEM filter.

I know my extractor gets every drop from the bottom of the sump (I've used it, then pulled the drain plug to check, and literally 0 drops come out), so I'm leaning towards just sucking out what I can get and refilling.

Any ideas of what to use my $40 dealership credit for? This is a 2005 Civic EX Coupe with 53k miles. Just had the brake fluid flushed, t-belt, water pump, tensioner replaced. Brake pads have 5mm of meat left on them. Battery tested "Good" with 13.07V and 350 CCA ($40 isn't enough to make the battery at the dealership cost-effective anyway). I just did 3 "turkey baster" PSF changes. Obviously I do oil and filters myself. Oh yeah, and I replaced all the rubber exhaust hangers, because my 2000 Civic lost a muffler over a $1.48 piece of rubber and I am not allowing that to happen again. Don't need a valve adjustment until 110k miles or until I hear a noise. I D&F the Auto Transmission fluid myself as well (had a complete fluid exchange <10k miles ago to ditch Z-1 for DW-1). I have a block heater and transmission cooler already installed. Anything I'm missing? Obviously I plan to keep the car for a while...

 

[Donald]

Leave the MMO on the shelf at Walmart. You will be fine with the 5W20. Your in NJ not Alaska.

Block heater? Its not a diesel is it?

As for the transmission cooler make sure you have a thermostat in it if you increased the cooling capability beyond the way the vehicle came from the factory.

Synthetic transmission ATF is always a good idea as is some kind of filter in the cooling line (Magnefine).

 

[oiltard]

Originally Posted By: Donald
Leave the MMO on the shelf at Walmart. You will be fine with the 5W20. Your in NJ not Alaska.

Block heater? Its not a diesel is it?

As for the transmission cooler make sure you have a thermostat in it if you increased the cooling capability beyond the way the vehicle came from the factory.

Synthetic transmission ATF is always a good idea as is some kind of filter in the cooling line (Magnefine).


The early years of the 2001-05 generation of Civics had a high incidence of catastrophic auto transmission failures.The cooler is a means of additional protection. What's the danger in optimally temperatured ATF? Most transmission failures are a result of overheating. ATF breaks down under high temperatures. What's your concern with the cooler?

I am afraid to use any non-Honda ATF in these transmissions. No official word from Honda on whether the DW-1 is Full Synthetic, but interwebz concensus is that it's superior to the Z-1 it replaced, and I'm not taking the chance with Maxlife, Valvoline, or even the illustrious AMSOIL, despite that the design flaw from 2001-3 appears to have been rectified before my car rolled off the line.

As for the block heater, gas-powered engines work better at operating temperature. They undergo significantly less wear and use less gasoline. A block heater gives the engine a head start. Right now, I only bother to plug it in when I know I'll be starting the car in sub-freezing temperatures, but if I keep this oil in there, I may just plug it into the timer every night.

I'm surprised more BITOGers don't install them. There's no way this won't save tons of wear on the engine and probably pay for itself in fuel savings (even after electricity is factored in) over the life of the vehicle. And you get to blow hot air at yourself after a mile or two, instead of waiting 15 minutes and getting frostbite.

 

[Quest]

Originally Posted By: oiltard
...The early years of the 2001-05 generation of Civics had a high incidence of catastrophic auto transmission failures.The cooler is a means of additional protection. What's the danger in optimally temperatured ATF? Most transmission failures are a result of overheating. ATF breaks down under high temperatures. What's your concern with the cooler?

I am afraid to use any non-Honda ATF in these transmissions. No official word from Honda on whether the DW-1 is Full Synthetic, but interwebz concensus is that it's superior to the Z-1 it replaced, and I'm not taking the chance with Maxlife, Valvoline, or even the illustrious AMSOIL, despite that the design flaw from 2001-3 appears to have been rectified before my car rolled off the line.


A little knowledge is a dangerous thing and this is one of them.

RE: Honda A/T gearboxes in 7th gen civic: yeah, some incidents of failure but most of them are hyped up on the internet (how many, lemme say that again: how many of those out of the hundreds of thousands of civics should in the continental NA soil that decidedly go bad? statistically-speaking, maybe less than a hundred? a hundred out of hundreds of thousands is still less than 0.1%. Even if you jack the ratio up to a few %, that still doesn't mean much (they still runs for over 100k before they start to act up).

my dad's 7th gen is still on Honda ATF (drain-n-fill using OE fluid) gone past 186k already, still on it's original trannie. Am I worried about it? Nope. Is synthetic ATF gonna make things better inthis case? Nope, only make my wallet lighter, while all things being equal.

Yes, ATF does break down if it's overheated, but how likely are you gonna overload/overheat that trannie on your 7th gen civic? Did you install a trailer and try to tow a dairy cow from behind?!!?

Mind you: I was a cert mechanic in my region 2 decades ago and while I don't work in the relevant field no more (health reasons, amongst other things), I still service a small pool of vehicles for my dedicated(hand-picked) clienteles.

Don't get hyped up by those little you read it on the internet doesn't necessarily means that it's always true....too many posters have different agendas on the internet).

Q.

 

[bepperb]

I'd leave it in for at least 5000 miles. I used to have an 03 Civic. You don't need a block heater and the dealer 5-20 is good for 7500 miles.

You're probably the only person in 2012 who will get a free oil change from this dealer and negotiate a credit for their mistake! Don't get me wrong, I'd be mad too, but really this is a pretty moot thing that happened.

 

[ottotheclown]

Chill Man!! Monday it is suppose to be 50. Why dont you get your head into the Giants out there in SF??? IT IS A CIVIC!!

 

[oiltard]

Originally Posted By: Quest
Originally Posted By: oiltard
...The early years of the 2001-05 generation of Civics had a high incidence of catastrophic auto transmission failures.The cooler is a means of additional protection. What's the danger in optimally temperatured ATF? Most transmission failures are a result of overheating. ATF breaks down under high temperatures. What's your concern with the cooler?

I am afraid to use any non-Honda ATF in these transmissions. No official word from Honda on whether the DW-1 is Full Synthetic, but interwebz concensus is that it's superior to the Z-1 it replaced, and I'm not taking the chance with Maxlife, Valvoline, or even the illustrious AMSOIL, despite that the design flaw from 2001-3 appears to have been rectified before my car rolled off the line.


A little knowledge is a dangerous thing and this is one of them.

RE: Honda A/T gearboxes in 7th gen civic: yeah, some incidents of failure but most of them are hyped up on the internet (how many, lemme say that again: how many of those out of the hundreds of thousands of civics should in the continental NA soil that decidedly go bad? statistically-speaking, maybe less than a hundred? a hundred out of hundreds of thousands is still less than 0.1%. Even if you jack the ratio up to a few %, that still doesn't mean much (they still runs for over 100k before they start to act up).

my dad's 7th gen is still on Honda ATF (drain-n-fill using OE fluid) gone past 186k already, still on it's original trannie. Am I worried about it? Nope. Is synthetic ATF gonna make things better inthis case? Nope, only make my wallet lighter, while all things being equal.

Yes, ATF does break down if it's overheated, but how likely are you gonna overload/overheat that trannie on your 7th gen civic? Did you install a trailer and try to tow a dairy cow from behind?!!?

Mind you: I was a cert mechanic in my region 2 decades ago and while I don't work in the relevant field no more (health reasons, amongst other things), I still service a small pool of vehicles for my dedicated(hand-picked) clienteles.

Don't get hyped up by those little you read it on the internet doesn't necessarily means that it's always true....too many posters have different agendas on the internet).

Q.


I actually had a 2002 with the failed transmission, although the dealer who sold it to me probably knew about it beforehand. This was my replacement for that car. So maybe that's the root of my AT paranoia. I do live in a hilly area, but I baby the car, rarely hit 3k rpm, try to keep it even lower until the Ultragauge reads 165 coolant temp.

In any case, cooler's been in for 10k miles and it certainly can't hurt anything, as was the previous poster's contention, unless I blatantly misunderstand something about how it works. Isn't it just a heat exchanger for the transmission fluid that sits right next to the radiator? And I'm hoping to go a lot more than 185k on this car, so hopefully it will pay off in the end. I will have this car paid off in about 3 months and am very much looking forward to having no car payments for a LONG time with a little help and guidance from all of you.

 

[oiltard]

Originally Posted By: ottotheclown
Chill Man!! Monday it is suppose to be 50. Why dont you get your head into the Giants out there in SF??? IT IS A CIVIC!!


Ha ha. Good point, but I'm still leaning towards taking the cowards' way out, getting it good and hot tomorrow, sucking out 3+ quarts through the dipstick tube and replacing it with the Toyota 0w20 that I really want in there. I'll just have to remember this is a contaminated sample when I send it to Blackstone in 7000 or 7500 miles.

As far as getting a free oil change, I had better oil and a better filter with literally 200 miles on it. You bet they were issuing me a credit!

 

[Ursae_Majoris]

I ran 5w30 and 5W-20 (not always synthetic either) in my Kia Spectra when I lived in AK.
I did not have a block heater (car was a former rental from the Lower 48)

It started fine in 20 below. Did it for 2 years. Car ran like a champ. You'll be fine.

See if you can transfer the $40 credit to parts department and get a trunk mat or something along those lines.

PS Last time I looked at difference between 5w and 0w flow properties, they were so close it was not material. One company's 0w flowed the same or less than another's 5w. Do not waste your time and money.

 

[oiltard]

We're comparing Exxon-Mobil made Toyota 0w20, the second lightest oil I'm aware of (after ENEOS Sustina) to Honda Dealership (bottled stuff is C-P) bulk 5w20. There's a signifacnt viscosity difference at all temperatures relevant to my situation.

My reason for the block heater has nothing whatever to do with the car starting or not. I simply like to give the car a head start on getting to operating temperature. To reduce wear and increase fuel economy. And then I don't have to idle it on a cold winter's day to get heat in the first 5 minutes of driving. I HATE idling.

 

[LeakySeals]

oiltard... I have never read a thread on here that would classify as oil paranoia until now. "Afraid"? of what??? If you stayed with that "boogey man bulk oil" for another 20 years, nothing will happen. I recently parted with my old chevy truck. Somehow it survived the the days before the internet, google or BITOG. Spent 10 years on Jiffy lube "bulk oil" and "OCOD's" when the kids were young because I just didn't have time. Her demise will be rust. She still runs, my neighbors son bought it for his college painting job. 344,800 when I sold it last summer. He said its running better on the newer SN dino's, burning less oil. Imagine that, any on sale dino and its running better..You'll get bored and sell the car long before the engine goes..wasted all that worry and cash on oil. Guess what I'm saying is...don't believe everything you read on the internet...Engines don't fail because of the brand, they fail because the oil ran out or wasn't changed. Period.

 

[Bladecutter]

Originally Posted By: oiltard

Even though the car only has 53k miles (37k of that in the 21 months since I bought it), I decided to take advantage of a coupon match and have my local Honda dealer do the timing belt. Picked it up this morning and noticed a "next service due" sticker.

I called the dealership to ask what gives, and she put me on hold and went to talk to the tech who worked on my car. Said he misread one of the instructions and changed the oil accidentally. This means my Wix filter and Toyota 0w20 got ditched with only 200 miles for much heavier Honda bulk 5w20.

Are there any other good options?

Or should I suck it up, get down & dirty in the snow, and change everything?


Here's a wild question:

Why didn't you tell your Honda dealer to go next door, or up the street, or whatever, to the Toyota Dealer, buy some more 0W-20, and put the oil they drained out, and replace all of it with the oil you originally had in there, along with a new oil filter?

They made the mistake, YOU shouldn't have to deal with it.

Call up their service manager, tell him you want them to get a hold of the oil, and you want to bring your car back in so they can swap it out, while you watch.

BC.

 

[addyguy]

A Honda dealership would NEVER put Toyota 0W-20 into a Honda that calls for 5W-20. They just wouldn't.

 

[gizzsdad]

Wow! If you're worried about 5W-20 in NJ - I must really be trashing my engine with 5w30(PP) in Iowa. We're expecting -4F tonight.

 

[1999nick]

Why did you have the timing belt changed at only 53,000 miles.

 

[surfstar]

Originally Posted By: 1999nick
Why did you have the timing belt changed at only 53,000 miles.


OCD - oil compulsive disorder. BITOG is definitely at fault here.

OP: What's your owners manual advise for the tbelt interval? I'm betting up to 110k miles. You're flushing $$ away along with your oil if you change it before its due. But whatever helps you sleep at night.

edit: "increase fuel economy" is a reason for your block heater. Changing your tbelt on schedule would save you a lot more money than your increased fuel economy. *forehead slap*