Has anybody ever heard of Gap Insurance?
The whole story sounds like Internet babble to me...
The whole story sounds like Internet babble to me...
Dealerhip totals owner's Camaro ZL1, won't replace
- Thread starter gofast182
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Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Has anybody ever heard of Gap Insurance?
...
Gap insurance doesn't buy you a new car or cover your equity...
It only covers the difference it the value and the payoff if the payoff is higher than the value, in other words unless you are over financed (have negative equity) it does not come into play...
Has anybody ever heard of Gap Insurance?
...
Gap insurance doesn't buy you a new car or cover your equity...
It only covers the difference it the value and the payoff if the payoff is higher than the value, in other words unless you are over financed (have negative equity) it does not come into play...
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Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Has anybody ever heard of Gap Insurance?
...
Gap insurance doesn't buy you a new car or cover your equity...
It only covers the difference it the value and the payoff if the payoff is higher than the value, in other words unless you are over financed (have negative equity) it does not come into play...
Funny, I've bought, sold, and traded cars new and used for over 40 years and anytime a bank was involved they made sure to protect themselves.
Why in the world would they have an unsecured interest in any car loan for any reason? It's just not typical, and it's one more reason this story smells funny.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Has anybody ever heard of Gap Insurance?
...
Gap insurance doesn't buy you a new car or cover your equity...
It only covers the difference it the value and the payoff if the payoff is higher than the value, in other words unless you are over financed (have negative equity) it does not come into play...
Funny, I've bought, sold, and traded cars new and used for over 40 years and anytime a bank was involved they made sure to protect themselves.
Why in the world would they have an unsecured interest in any car loan for any reason? It's just not typical, and it's one more reason this story smells funny.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
This story doesn't add up. Important details to this story are missing.
Here's the other article I mentioned earlier:
http://capegazette.villagesoup.com/p/no-deal-yet-over-wrecked-camaro/1098871
Call me heartless, but I think various mentions of the grand-daughter's college expenses, the "pain and suffering" and the line about "we're not looking for a million bucks" are just cries for sympathy.
Insurance is what it is. This car wasn't a 2014; its two years old already. If it was, say, a 2002 Camaro surely no one would be suggesting the dealer owes him a 2014?
This story doesn't add up. Important details to this story are missing.
Here's the other article I mentioned earlier:
http://capegazette.villagesoup.com/p/no-deal-yet-over-wrecked-camaro/1098871
Call me heartless, but I think various mentions of the grand-daughter's college expenses, the "pain and suffering" and the line about "we're not looking for a million bucks" are just cries for sympathy.
Insurance is what it is. This car wasn't a 2014; its two years old already. If it was, say, a 2002 Camaro surely no one would be suggesting the dealer owes him a 2014?
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
...
Funny, I've bought, sold, and traded cars new and used for over 40 years and anytime a bank was involved they made sure to protect themselves.
Why in the world would they have an unsecured interest in any car loan for any reason? It's just not typical, and it's one more reason this story smells funny.
I'm not sure I follow?
But yes GAP insurance mostly protects the finance company and the buyer to the extent that they start with a clean slate and aren't on the hook for negative equity. FWIW it is most prevalent in leases from what I know... but it has been quite sometime since I had any dealings...
I agree something does not add up...
While we are at it, can someone explain to me what the guy means by:
Quote:
Also absolutely NO documentation on the car, even though I was told the car had more documentation than mine.
What kind of documentation is he speaking of, typing the VIN into OASIS (is that still what it is called) should spit out all the original RPO codes...?
FWIW, I looked at one of these which I posted here:
ZL1 = $62,000.00
...
Funny, I've bought, sold, and traded cars new and used for over 40 years and anytime a bank was involved they made sure to protect themselves.
Why in the world would they have an unsecured interest in any car loan for any reason? It's just not typical, and it's one more reason this story smells funny.
I'm not sure I follow?
But yes GAP insurance mostly protects the finance company and the buyer to the extent that they start with a clean slate and aren't on the hook for negative equity. FWIW it is most prevalent in leases from what I know... but it has been quite sometime since I had any dealings...
I agree something does not add up...
While we are at it, can someone explain to me what the guy means by:
Quote:
Also absolutely NO documentation on the car, even though I was told the car had more documentation than mine.
What kind of documentation is he speaking of, typing the VIN into OASIS (is that still what it is called) should spit out all the original RPO codes...?
FWIW, I looked at one of these which I posted here:
ZL1 = $62,000.00
Originally Posted By: css9450
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
This story doesn't add up. Important details to this story are missing.
Here's the other article I mentioned earlier:
http://capegazette.villagesoup.com/p/no-deal-yet-over-wrecked-camaro/1098871
Call me heartless, but I think various mentions of the grand-daughter's college expenses, the "pain and suffering" and the line about "we're not looking for a million bucks" are just cries for sympathy.
Insurance is what it is. This car wasn't a 2014; its two years old already. If it was, say, a 2002 Camaro surely no one would be suggesting the dealer owes him a 2014?
The article mentions that their insurance adjustor estimated their vehicle at about $45k before it was totalled (the sticker was $56k, out the door was probably close to $60k).
That's a fine "investment" for grand daughter's education for sure
I would also be peeved if something like that happened to me, but to expect a brand new vehicle out of the deal is a bit too much.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
This story doesn't add up. Important details to this story are missing.
Here's the other article I mentioned earlier:
http://capegazette.villagesoup.com/p/no-deal-yet-over-wrecked-camaro/1098871
Call me heartless, but I think various mentions of the grand-daughter's college expenses, the "pain and suffering" and the line about "we're not looking for a million bucks" are just cries for sympathy.
Insurance is what it is. This car wasn't a 2014; its two years old already. If it was, say, a 2002 Camaro surely no one would be suggesting the dealer owes him a 2014?
The article mentions that their insurance adjustor estimated their vehicle at about $45k before it was totalled (the sticker was $56k, out the door was probably close to $60k).
That's a fine "investment" for grand daughter's education for sure
I would also be peeved if something like that happened to me, but to expect a brand new vehicle out of the deal is a bit too much.
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http://1ststatechevy.wordpress.com/2012/06/20/2012-camaro-zl1-coupe-first-state-chevrolet/
LOL...
Quote:
I wanna go fast! I wanna go fast! How about a 580 hp Supercharged 6.2L V8 power plant. 556 lbs of torque at 4200 rpm. And yeah…it requires the Gas Guzzler Tax, small price to pay to go fast!
Guess they finally got their chance...
Who's paying now?
LOL...
Quote:
I wanna go fast! I wanna go fast! How about a 580 hp Supercharged 6.2L V8 power plant. 556 lbs of torque at 4200 rpm. And yeah…it requires the Gas Guzzler Tax, small price to pay to go fast!
Guess they finally got their chance...
Who's paying now?
First really sucks for the owner no doubt.
Bad side of owning a new car and overpriced/expensive one. It gets destroyed in first few years you lose HUGE!!!!!! My reasoning for buying a bit used to let some other sucker eat that depreciation. New cars are risky the first years.
To me personally its like a $60k Suburban got totaled, who cares.
This owner is hoped up in the forums this thing is worth $200k and deserves a new car. Its no different than a fire happening or it get stolen from a random person. Sadly you lose and dealership is helping.
Bad side of owning a new car and overpriced/expensive one. It gets destroyed in first few years you lose HUGE!!!!!! My reasoning for buying a bit used to let some other sucker eat that depreciation. New cars are risky the first years.
To me personally its like a $60k Suburban got totaled, who cares.
This owner is hoped up in the forums this thing is worth $200k and deserves a new car. Its no different than a fire happening or it get stolen from a random person. Sadly you lose and dealership is helping.
Car was in for repair - this is a bailment.
At common law, bailees were strictly liable for damage to bailed property, in effect, becoming an insurer of the property, but in modern times and in my jurisdiction, and probably the one where this happened, the legal standard of care for the type of bailment involved would be that of ordinary care.
From what little I've read, it sounds to me like the dealer exercised ordinary care for the vehicle. The lawyers for the dealers insurance company are probably advising nuisance money or pound sand. They won't give a rat's rear end about internet whiners.
Never expect someone else's insurance to protect your property. There are insurance products available that will replace a damaged car with a new car. I'm not sure it would carry two model years out though - one would just have to shop around.
edit: and anyone who thinks an item of personal property is an investment, or buys a car as an investment for the future is ignorant. You want an $60K investment - go buy a rent house.
At common law, bailees were strictly liable for damage to bailed property, in effect, becoming an insurer of the property, but in modern times and in my jurisdiction, and probably the one where this happened, the legal standard of care for the type of bailment involved would be that of ordinary care.
From what little I've read, it sounds to me like the dealer exercised ordinary care for the vehicle. The lawyers for the dealers insurance company are probably advising nuisance money or pound sand. They won't give a rat's rear end about internet whiners.
Never expect someone else's insurance to protect your property. There are insurance products available that will replace a damaged car with a new car. I'm not sure it would carry two model years out though - one would just have to shop around.
edit: and anyone who thinks an item of personal property is an investment, or buys a car as an investment for the future is ignorant. You want an $60K investment - go buy a rent house.
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NADA retail on a 2012 ZL1 with 10,000 miles is something like 49K...
Be interesting to hear how they the 44K offer was arrived at...
Be interesting to hear how they the 44K offer was arrived at...
The dealership's or insurance company's lawyers surely don't care. Their goal is to pay the minimum.
However, the owner of the dealership should step up here. His loss of revenue is going to far exceed the $10k he would have to chip in to get them a new car. It's a simple matter of PR and customer service. The good business practice would be to apologize and take responsibility for the matter, and then make it right.
However, the owner of the dealership should step up here. His loss of revenue is going to far exceed the $10k he would have to chip in to get them a new car. It's a simple matter of PR and customer service. The good business practice would be to apologize and take responsibility for the matter, and then make it right.
Originally Posted By: css9450
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
This story doesn't add up. Important details to this story are missing.
Here's the other article I mentioned earlier:
http://capegazette.villagesoup.com/p/no-deal-yet-over-wrecked-camaro/1098871
Call me heartless, but I think various mentions of the grand-daughter's college expenses, the "pain and suffering" and the line about "we're not looking for a million bucks" are just cries for sympathy.
Insurance is what it is. This car wasn't a 2014; its two years old already. If it was, say, a 2002 Camaro surely no one would be suggesting the dealer owes him a 2014?
Well its not really a collectable car, what's it going to be worth in 18 years? I bet what a nice 1996 Z28 is worth today, maybe $5k? So not the brightest light bulb in the box to start with.
If he paid $60k and he is that upside down he must have had negative equity in the other car he traded and the 69 must have been a husk. Even if he put only $20k down his insurance should have paid him in the high $40k's judging by that other 2012 that was posted. So he should have his note paid off and a few extra bucks.
With his insurance check, and $5k of goodwill the dealer seemed to want to offer he could have bought a 2 year newer 14 for not much more.
So if they sticker for say $60k OTD and his insurance company paid out $45k, throw in another $5k from the dealer and he is only $10k off from a new car. $10k for two model years isn't terrible really. If the car was in such good shape he could probably bump the insurance check up a few grand.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
This story doesn't add up. Important details to this story are missing.
Here's the other article I mentioned earlier:
http://capegazette.villagesoup.com/p/no-deal-yet-over-wrecked-camaro/1098871
Call me heartless, but I think various mentions of the grand-daughter's college expenses, the "pain and suffering" and the line about "we're not looking for a million bucks" are just cries for sympathy.
Insurance is what it is. This car wasn't a 2014; its two years old already. If it was, say, a 2002 Camaro surely no one would be suggesting the dealer owes him a 2014?
Well its not really a collectable car, what's it going to be worth in 18 years? I bet what a nice 1996 Z28 is worth today, maybe $5k? So not the brightest light bulb in the box to start with.
If he paid $60k and he is that upside down he must have had negative equity in the other car he traded and the 69 must have been a husk. Even if he put only $20k down his insurance should have paid him in the high $40k's judging by that other 2012 that was posted. So he should have his note paid off and a few extra bucks.
With his insurance check, and $5k of goodwill the dealer seemed to want to offer he could have bought a 2 year newer 14 for not much more.
So if they sticker for say $60k OTD and his insurance company paid out $45k, throw in another $5k from the dealer and he is only $10k off from a new car. $10k for two model years isn't terrible really. If the car was in such good shape he could probably bump the insurance check up a few grand.
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ls1mike
$50 Site Donor 2024
The ZL1 someday 25 to 30 years down the road will be worth like a 68 or 69 is worth today, depending on condition and originality.
It is rare and will be the Grail car for 5th gen guys 25, 30, 35 year from now.
But at 18 years, it is just going to be a 5th Gen ZL1 that will sell for 18,000 to 20,000 with low miles.
I mean if he waits 30 years he may break even if it is original and has hardly any miles on it, but in 18 years I equate it to the C4 ZR1. They can be had for under 20,000 with low miles. Not much of an investment if you ask me.
Of course I could be wrong. There are 4th Gen CETA Trans Ams with low miles that have sold for more than they were new. As well as 4th gen Intimidator SSs and they made way more of those than the ZL1. Doesn't mean I would pay that much for it, but some people will.
A CETA with 1,700 miles recently sold for 2000 bucks more than new which was 39,000. So 41,000...Ugh.
Some of these are fetching new price or more as well. I don't understand it.
The collector car market is too dang fickle to rely on a car as an investment and I personally don't like spending more than 20,000 even on something new.
It is rare and will be the Grail car for 5th gen guys 25, 30, 35 year from now.
But at 18 years, it is just going to be a 5th Gen ZL1 that will sell for 18,000 to 20,000 with low miles.
I mean if he waits 30 years he may break even if it is original and has hardly any miles on it, but in 18 years I equate it to the C4 ZR1. They can be had for under 20,000 with low miles. Not much of an investment if you ask me.
Of course I could be wrong. There are 4th Gen CETA Trans Ams with low miles that have sold for more than they were new. As well as 4th gen Intimidator SSs and they made way more of those than the ZL1. Doesn't mean I would pay that much for it, but some people will.
A CETA with 1,700 miles recently sold for 2000 bucks more than new which was 39,000. So 41,000...Ugh.
Some of these are fetching new price or more as well. I don't understand it.
The collector car market is too dang fickle to rely on a car as an investment and I personally don't like spending more than 20,000 even on something new.
Looks as though the yelp reviews are coming in:
http://www.yelp.com/biz/first-state-chevrolet-georgetown
Surprised the guy mentiond the old tires being changed on the replacement car. Also the replacement car had 13k miles versus around 10k on the owners. It had a moonroof which is probably a $900 option and may increase the value if being used as a future car "investment". The dealer did offer a solution that he wasn't interested in. Funny I don't see any used Camaros on the dealer's website. Go figure.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/first-state-chevrolet-georgetown
Surprised the guy mentiond the old tires being changed on the replacement car. Also the replacement car had 13k miles versus around 10k on the owners. It had a moonroof which is probably a $900 option and may increase the value if being used as a future car "investment". The dealer did offer a solution that he wasn't interested in. Funny I don't see any used Camaros on the dealer's website. Go figure.
Originally Posted By: satinsilver
Looks as though the yelp reviews are coming in:
http://www.yelp.com/biz/first-state-chevrolet-georgetown
Surprised the guy mentiond the old tires being changed on the replacement car. Also the replacement car had 13k miles versus around 10k on the owners. It had a moonroof which is probably a $900 option and may increase the value if being used as a future car "investment". The dealer did offer a solution that he wasn't interested in. Funny I don't see any used Camaros on the dealer's website. Go figure.
ROFL, this is exactly what I predicted once I heard this story (see my post on page 1).
Short of this dealership handing the guy a brand-spanking new ZL1 built to his spec, they'll never recover from this black eye.
Looks as though the yelp reviews are coming in:
http://www.yelp.com/biz/first-state-chevrolet-georgetown
Surprised the guy mentiond the old tires being changed on the replacement car. Also the replacement car had 13k miles versus around 10k on the owners. It had a moonroof which is probably a $900 option and may increase the value if being used as a future car "investment". The dealer did offer a solution that he wasn't interested in. Funny I don't see any used Camaros on the dealer's website. Go figure.
ROFL, this is exactly what I predicted once I heard this story (see my post on page 1).
Short of this dealership handing the guy a brand-spanking new ZL1 built to his spec, they'll never recover from this black eye.
As of right now, this Yahoo News story has 8880 comments.
http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/c...-170136602.html
How much and what kind of publicity is this dealer going to get?
Is it possible for this to be a win for the dealer?
http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/c...-170136602.html
How much and what kind of publicity is this dealer going to get?
Is it possible for this to be a win for the dealer?
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Originally Posted By: satinsilver
Looks as though the yelp reviews are coming in:
http://www.yelp.com/biz/first-state-chevrolet-georgetown
Surprised the guy mentiond the old tires being changed on the replacement car. Also the replacement car had 13k miles versus around 10k on the owners. It had a moonroof which is probably a $900 option and may increase the value if being used as a future car "investment". The dealer did offer a solution that he wasn't interested in. Funny I don't see any used Camaros on the dealer's website. Go figure.
Once the story hit Yahoo!, their Facebook page was getting flooded with comments too. At first they were deleting them as they came in, but after several hours they just deactivated the page altogether.
Could the dealership publicly post the name of the employee who wrecked the car without getting into legal trouble I wonder?
Looks as though the yelp reviews are coming in:
http://www.yelp.com/biz/first-state-chevrolet-georgetown
Surprised the guy mentiond the old tires being changed on the replacement car. Also the replacement car had 13k miles versus around 10k on the owners. It had a moonroof which is probably a $900 option and may increase the value if being used as a future car "investment". The dealer did offer a solution that he wasn't interested in. Funny I don't see any used Camaros on the dealer's website. Go figure.
Once the story hit Yahoo!, their Facebook page was getting flooded with comments too. At first they were deleting them as they came in, but after several hours they just deactivated the page altogether.
Could the dealership publicly post the name of the employee who wrecked the car without getting into legal trouble I wonder?
Facebook comments are pretty funny:
https://www.facebook.com/Wewreckedazl1
- I love this place! I just had to take my Corvette in for an alignment and they totaled it for me. No questions asked!
- They totaled my segway
- Free insurance claim with any warranty work!
- Our state-of-the-art body shop is equipped with everything you would need to repair even the most damaged vehicles.
Did someone go joyriding in your vehicle without your consent while you entrusted us with it? Well then we can help you out.
For heartache, a lot of money, and stress, we can not only wreck a car for you, but we have the facilities to repair it, and offer you something of lesser value!
Come see us!
https://www.facebook.com/Wewreckedazl1
- I love this place! I just had to take my Corvette in for an alignment and they totaled it for me. No questions asked!
- They totaled my segway
- Free insurance claim with any warranty work!
- Our state-of-the-art body shop is equipped with everything you would need to repair even the most damaged vehicles.
Did someone go joyriding in your vehicle without your consent while you entrusted us with it? Well then we can help you out.
For heartache, a lot of money, and stress, we can not only wreck a car for you, but we have the facilities to repair it, and offer you something of lesser value!
Come see us!
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The guy says he's still making payments? Did his insurance not cut him a check, and if they did, he traded in 2 other Camaros plus a loan to get the ZL1, and he's STILL underwater???? Sounds to me like the guy is leveraged beyond ability to pay for stuff and he wants the dealer to cover his financial mismanagement. Plus, he got roryally screwed on the car deal itself! These are the kinds of scenarios where it's no win for all parties involved. The Dealer is now taking unjustified abuse for the actions of a rouge employee; they should just negotiate a settlement with the guy/his insurance company, cut their losses and buy him a new car (eve though it's not their fault) just to get the bad publicity off their backs.
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Here's the latest from the forum:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7328804&postcount=898
"
For the record, the car was a TWO-OWNER car, not a one-owner car like the dealer told us. The dealer NEVER mentioned the front end damage--my wife found that out on her own. WE paid $55 for the CarFax--the dealer never offered one. The dealer also did not mention that the car had aftermarket tinted windows, aftermarket emblems, and NO DOCUMENTATION. The car just looked like it had been run hard and put away wet. My 10K tires still had over 60% tire life remaining. The so-called replacement needed new tires at 13K miles.
If the dealer had bothered to sit down with us and offer a few options in cars, maybe we would feel differently. But THEY chose the car (a trade-in) that THEY wanted us to BUY from them. Even $4000 (feel good money) was not important to us. We would have gladly PURCHASED an equivalent replacement with no "feel good" money. Money is not everything...
At any rate, a retired GM exec called me today to let me know that GM IS involved now. It is our understanding that the matter will be resolved to our satisfaction next week. And GM will make sure that we are treated fairly and equitably.
If anyone happens to call First State Chevrolet, the receptionist is named Norma. She is a real sweetheart and does not deserve to be disrespected, so PLEASE do not give her a hard time.
Thanks,
John
"
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7328804&postcount=898
"
For the record, the car was a TWO-OWNER car, not a one-owner car like the dealer told us. The dealer NEVER mentioned the front end damage--my wife found that out on her own. WE paid $55 for the CarFax--the dealer never offered one. The dealer also did not mention that the car had aftermarket tinted windows, aftermarket emblems, and NO DOCUMENTATION. The car just looked like it had been run hard and put away wet. My 10K tires still had over 60% tire life remaining. The so-called replacement needed new tires at 13K miles.
If the dealer had bothered to sit down with us and offer a few options in cars, maybe we would feel differently. But THEY chose the car (a trade-in) that THEY wanted us to BUY from them. Even $4000 (feel good money) was not important to us. We would have gladly PURCHASED an equivalent replacement with no "feel good" money. Money is not everything...
At any rate, a retired GM exec called me today to let me know that GM IS involved now. It is our understanding that the matter will be resolved to our satisfaction next week. And GM will make sure that we are treated fairly and equitably.
If anyone happens to call First State Chevrolet, the receptionist is named Norma. She is a real sweetheart and does not deserve to be disrespected, so PLEASE do not give her a hard time.
Thanks,
John
"
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