Dealer says 5-20 ok when 5-30 spec'd

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Originally Posted By: Marco620
Its Ecoboost and the cap says 5w30? Oh I forgot the oil tech knows more than the engineers do. It needs 5w30 and you should have them put 5w30 in there.They added 5w20 without your knowledge or approval so its on them. They seem to want to throw 5w20 in everything because that is their bulk and dont have time to have a seperate tank for 5w30.Its pure laziness and stupidity at the highest level.


Exactly, by gone is the era where garages can just have one bulk tank for motor oil. And there seems to be garages that still want to stick to that yet, even dealers as it appears in this case. I been to garages where they have little boxes of oil so they can cater to pretty much any vehicle that would come there way.
 
OP - If Ford thought they could get away w 5W-20, they would have spec'd it. They fight for every tenth of an MPG to meet CAFE. Since you're in the GWN, I'd leave it in for winter and just make sure you get 5W-30 in the future. Use 5W-30 for top off if you need to add any during the OCI.
 
give them a bad review on their google page that is something that bothers stealers.. They pay thousands to companies to try and "fix" those issues..
 
If 5w30 was on the oil cap and they still used xw20 and then try to charge you for their screw-up, then that says much about the character of that dealership. I'd try to find another dealer or at least tell them I WANT THE RECOMMENDED 5W30,installed on the next oil change. Ed
 
Boy, this rings a bell with me...twice my dealership paperwork said that my FXT had been filled with 0W20 when Subaru specifies 5W30 and that grade is also on the cap. In each case, I brought it up with the "service advisor" and got a blank stare for a few seconds, then an assurance that they "must have" used the right grade. 0W20 is recommended for the N/A Foresters and the turbo XTs are pretty rare (and don't even have hood scoops anymore!), so I'm sure the 19 year old techs just dump 0W20 in any Forester they see.
The second time this happened, I raised more of a stink and the advisor said he was going to talk to the tech...came back and said they definitely used 5W30. By this time, I trusted this place so little that I was sure he just walked into the shop, counted to 20, and then came back to his desk to lie to me. Felt like complaining more would just lead to them telling me they would refill it without them actually doing it...
This is a big reason for me starting to change my own oil, this dealer mangling the drain plug and giving me a big mess in my garage was the last straw. I am much happier doing the work myself, and my car is not way overfilled after every change anymore! I'm sure they did that to mask any consumption issues, which I haven't had as of yet.
 
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This is where I'm at. I don't even want my free oil changes.
I prefer to use top shelf products and don't want them to butcher my car.
With a dealer you have no idea on what you are getting.


Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Boy, this rings a bell with me...twice my dealership paperwork said that my FXT had been filled with 0W20 when Subaru specifies 5W30 and that grade is also on the cap. In each case, I brought it up with the "service advisor" and got a blank stare for a few seconds, then an assurance that they "must have" used the right grade. 0W20 is recommended for the N/A Foresters and the turbo XTs are pretty rare (and don't even have hood scoops anymore!), so I'm sure the 19 year old techs just dump 0W20 in any Forester they see.
The second time this happened, I raised more of a stink and the advisor said he was going to talk to the tech...came back and said they definitely used 5W30. By this time, I trusted this place so little that I was sure he just walked into the shop, counted to 20, and then came back to his desk to lie to me. Felt like complaining more would just lead to them telling me they would refill it without them actually doing it...
This is a big reason for me starting to change my own oil, this dealer mangling the drain plug and giving me a big mess in my garage was the last straw. I am much happier doing the work myself, and my car is not way overfilled after every change anymore! I'm sure they did that to mask any consumption issues, which I haven't had as of yet.
 
Originally Posted By: SirTanon
Originally Posted By: gabriel9766
Talk to to service manager


+1 on this. I'd tell them that unless he can show you a genuine ford TSB stating that 5w20 is approved in that car, they need to make it right.


+2 That is just bad business to treat people like that. Granted this isn't the first time I have heard of this but I still think a complaint should be made and unless there is a TSB from Ford with a new spec that they can print and show you then the oil going in your car better be what Ford tells them.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: MoreCowbellAz
Not to derail the thread, but just curious…….the consensus seems to be that the mfr calls for 30, so the 20 is unacceptable and the dealer should make it right, period, because of what the engine is spec'd for. How many of you would say the same thing if the situation was reversed; i.e. the engine was spec's for 20 and the dealer put in 30. Technically the principle is the same, but I bet a lot more people would be ok with it if the situation went in that direction.


Technically they are NOT the same.

thinner oils have lower Minimum Oil Film Thicknesses period.

Ford, who have long advocated the 5w20 grade, through their own durability testing have deemed that this application should have 5w30.

Going from 5W20 to 5W30 thickens the oil film, and has the same cold flow properties, no possible harm can eventuate. While going from a Ford recommended 5W30 to 5W20 reduces oil film thickness, and obviously puts you in a spot where Ford didn't think it safe to go.


+1 I'd much rather the mistake be the other way around. I would still raise a stink if the dealer put 5W-30 in my 5W-20 spec'd vehicle, especially if it was under warranty.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Just one of a list of reasons why I prefer to do my own work. Have them change the oil to 5W30, or better yet, refund you the money and do it yourself.

I bought a Mitsubishi 3000 GT VR4 from a friend after the engine had been totally rebuilt because the dealer had a lot monkey change the oil or should say dropped the oil. Failed to refill before driving it out of shop. She then picked up the car and tried to drive off only to have all the engine lights go off etc. Dealership wanted to get another engine from a junked vehicle to replace. She insisted on it being gone thru and rebuilt. She ended up taking it to a import specialty shop and taking the dealer to court. Judge had a few words to the dealership and their conduct as she had them do all the maintenance and purchase from them. She won easily. She is not a dummy being a VP on one the biggest computer security companies.
 
Originally Posted By: AirgunSavant
This is where I'm at. I don't even want my free oil changes.
I prefer to use top shelf products and don't want them to butcher my car.
With a dealer you have no idea on what you are getting.


Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Boy, this rings a bell with me...twice my dealership paperwork said that my FXT had been filled with 0W20 when Subaru specifies 5W30 and that grade is also on the cap. In each case, I brought it up with the "service advisor" and got a blank stare for a few seconds, then an assurance that they "must have" used the right grade. 0W20 is recommended for the N/A Foresters and the turbo XTs are pretty rare (and don't even have hood scoops anymore!), so I'm sure the 19 year old techs just dump 0W20 in any Forester they see.
The second time this happened, I raised more of a stink and the advisor said he was going to talk to the tech...came back and said they definitely used 5W30. By this time, I trusted this place so little that I was sure he just walked into the shop, counted to 20, and then came back to his desk to lie to me. Felt like complaining more would just lead to them telling me they would refill it without them actually doing it...
This is a big reason for me starting to change my own oil, this dealer mangling the drain plug and giving me a big mess in my garage was the last straw. I am much happier doing the work myself, and my car is not way overfilled after every change anymore! I'm sure they did that to mask any consumption issues, which I haven't had as of yet.


This is why I don't understand why some folks think it's a great idea to negotiate free oil changes with a new car purchase. What do they think the dealer is gonna put in their car for "free?" I agree - you don't know unless you are standing right there watching the tech open a sealed container.
 
Originally Posted By: bioburner
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Just one of a list of reasons why I prefer to do my own work. Have them change the oil to 5W30, or better yet, refund you the money and do it yourself.

I bought a Mitsubishi 3000 GT VR4 from a friend after the engine had been totally rebuilt because the dealer had a lot monkey change the oil or should say dropped the oil. Failed to refill before driving it out of shop. She then picked up the car and tried to drive off only to have all the engine lights go off etc. Dealership wanted to get another engine from a junked vehicle to replace. She insisted on it being gone thru and rebuilt. She ended up taking it to a import specialty shop and taking the dealer to court. Judge had a few words to the dealership and their conduct as she had them do all the maintenance and purchase from them. She won easily. She is not a dummy being a VP on one the biggest computer security companies.


Years ago I worked for a large Honda dealership. We took a Corvette in for a trade. We send it into the shop to make it ready for the line. A few of the lot monkeys took their turns throwing it a beating, then it went in for an oil change, and detailing right before lunch. They dropped the oil, put on the filter, lowered the car to fill the oil and broke for lunch. During that time I had a customer come in for a spot delivery on an Accord. My manager called service to prep the car as soon as the shop guys got back from lunch. For some odd reason the Vette came off the lift w/o oil. A lot monkey decided to throw it a beating before bringing it to be detailed. He blew the engine, and got fired, only to be replaced by someone equally stupid. There was a lot of finger pointing about why there was no oil in the car.

I'll only bring my car in for warranty work, major warranty work. If it's something easy even under warranty I'll fix it myself.
 
Originally Posted By: Bill_G

This is why I don't understand why some folks think it's a great idea to negotiate free oil changes with a new car purchase. What do they think the dealer is gonna put in their car for "free?" I agree - you don't know unless you are standing right there watching the tech open a sealed container.


Of course, you can't go in the shop and see what they are actually doing to your car because of liability concerns, right?
I felt extra burned because I was paying for the dealer changes, bought my car at another dealer that is a little too far away for routine maintenance and they didn't me any free service, anyway. I did take my car back to where I bought it for the 30kmile service (minus the oil and filter), they seem to be a little more on the ball than the local one. I am already thinking about how I am going to be sure my FXT gets the proper CVT fluid at the 60kmile service...I have read up a bit on that task and think that it is probably a bit much for me to do at home. The FXT is supposed to get a high torque fluid that is a different color than the standard Subaru CVT fluid, I guess I could ask to see it before they put in...what a PITA.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint

Years ago I worked for a large Honda dealership. We took a Corvette in for a trade. We send it into the shop to make it ready for the line. A few of the lot monkeys took their turns throwing it a beating, then it went in for an oil change, and detailing right before lunch. They dropped the oil, put on the filter, lowered the car to fill the oil and broke for lunch. During that time I had a customer come in for a spot delivery on an Accord. My manager called service to prep the car as soon as the shop guys got back from lunch. For some odd reason the Vette came off the lift w/o oil. A lot monkey decided to throw it a beating before bringing it to be detailed. He blew the engine, and got fired, only to be replaced by someone equally stupid. There was a lot of finger pointing about why there was no oil in the car.

I'll only bring my car in for warranty work, major warranty work. If it's something easy even under warranty I'll fix it myself.


Wow...this is eye opening.
Makes me think of the Ferrari getting the joyride in Ferris Bueller...I've always thought that movie should have ended with Cameron's funeral after his dad beat him to death over the 250 GT.

Maybe I should figure out the CVT fluid replacement procedure for my FXT, after all...it sounds like a nightmare.
 
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: demarpaint

Years ago I worked for a large Honda dealership. We took a Corvette in for a trade. We send it into the shop to make it ready for the line. A few of the lot monkeys took their turns throwing it a beating, then it went in for an oil change, and detailing right before lunch. They dropped the oil, put on the filter, lowered the car to fill the oil and broke for lunch. During that time I had a customer come in for a spot delivery on an Accord. My manager called service to prep the car as soon as the shop guys got back from lunch. For some odd reason the Vette came off the lift w/o oil. A lot monkey decided to throw it a beating before bringing it to be detailed. He blew the engine, and got fired, only to be replaced by someone equally stupid. There was a lot of finger pointing about why there was no oil in the car.

I'll only bring my car in for warranty work, major warranty work. If it's something easy even under warranty I'll fix it myself.


Wow...this is eye opening.
Makes me think of the Ferrari getting the joyride in Ferris Bueller...I've always thought that movie should have ended with Cameron's funeral after his dad beat him to death over the 250 GT.

Maybe I should figure out the CVT fluid replacement procedure for my FXT, after all...it sounds like a nightmare.


That was one of the more memorable stunts, there were more.

With regard to your CVT fluid replacement, read, read, read, and learn. That's what I did when I bought my 08 Liberty which has no transmission fluid dipstick. I was a bit intimidated by it, but by the time I was ready to service the transmission I had it figured out and it was quite easy. I also double checked the fluid level with a tech friend of mine to be certain it was spot on.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint

That was one of the more memorable stunts, there were more.

With regard to your CVT fluid replacement, read, read, read, and learn. That's what I did when I bought my 08 Liberty which has no transmission fluid dipstick. I was a bit intimidated by it, but by the time I was ready to service the transmission I had it figured out and it was quite easy. I also double checked the fluid level with a tech friend of mine to be certain it was spot on.


I will keep learning more about the CVT...looks like Subaru actually only recommends a CVT fluid inspection at 60kmiles, I'd assume then a replacement only if something is not right. I'm not even sure what they're looking for...it's not orange anymore? Low level (no dipstick)? Chunks of metal the size of acorns? I have read some places that these CVTs are only replaced, not repaired, but others say that dealers in the US will attempt repairs. Guess the 8 or 9 speed tranny in the Cherokee I was looking at before buying the FXT also has funky issues, seems that lots of these new trannies that they are using to help boost gas mileage are causing problems.
My RAV4's 5 speed AT also had no dipstick, Toyota decided that the ATF was "lifetime". Had it changed twice at a Toyota specialty shop that owned a special machine for doing it (or, so they told me)...the owner told me that whole "lifetime" designation was marketing causing an engineering disaster.
 
Originally Posted By: AirgunSavant
Yes agreed. Common sense is rare today
I think that is why he went to the dealer.
But that is the exact reason I don't want to go to the dealer for routine maintenance.

Originally Posted By: Malo83
I wouldn't worry about it, you have the reciept stating that's what they put in, any warranty problems down the road and your covered
56.gif



+1

Assuming its a Ford dealer and you got a receipt, don't worry about it. People will talk about oil brands and weights to death... but show me ONE example of engine failure do to oil, not lack of it.

No justifying what the dealership did, other than they likely use bulk oil. My father did the same as an indy, 10W-40 Castrol bulk for most customers (older euros). Granted that always fell in the recommended range for European cars of that vintage. Newer models or upon request synthetic was ordered (generally 5W-40).

It part of the reason I do my own work, not that I don't trust anyone... I like to do it myself and know I'm doing it "right", usually
wink.gif


Anyways... carry on.
 
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: demarpaint

That was one of the more memorable stunts, there were more.

With regard to your CVT fluid replacement, read, read, read, and learn. That's what I did when I bought my 08 Liberty which has no transmission fluid dipstick. I was a bit intimidated by it, but by the time I was ready to service the transmission I had it figured out and it was quite easy. I also double checked the fluid level with a tech friend of mine to be certain it was spot on.


I will keep learning more about the CVT...looks like Subaru actually only recommends a CVT fluid inspection at 60kmiles, I'd assume then a replacement only if something is not right. I'm not even sure what they're looking for...it's not orange anymore? Low level (no dipstick)? Chunks of metal the size of acorns? I have read some places that these CVTs are only replaced, not repaired, but others say that dealers in the US will attempt repairs. Guess the 8 or 9 speed tranny in the Cherokee I was looking at before buying the FXT also has funky issues, seems that lots of these new trannies that they are using to help boost gas mileage are causing problems.
My RAV4's 5 speed AT also had no dipstick, Toyota decided that the ATF was "lifetime". Had it changed twice at a Toyota specialty shop that owned a special machine for doing it (or, so they told me)...the owner told me that whole "lifetime" designation was marketing causing an engineering disaster.


It took a while before I was comfortable servicing mine, but it was not as complex as a CVT or 9 speed AT. Mine is a basic no frills 4 speed AT that some genius decided to eliminate the dipstick. The logic it seems was to save Chrysler a few dollars per unit and put a plastic plug in it saying dealer service only, or something like that. Then they have a chart with temperatures and levels the fluid should be at depending on temperature. A $30 investment in the dipstick tool and a home made temperature probe did the trick. It took a while before the DIY'ers started posting online about it, after watching a video or two and reading I discovered it was quite easy. Hopefully you'll have the same luck.
 
Originally Posted By: bigt61
OP - If Ford thought they could get away w 5W-20, they would have spec'd it. They fight for every tenth of an MPG to meet CAFE. Since you're in the GWN, I'd leave it in for winter and just make sure you get 5W-30 in the future. Use 5W-30 for top off if you need to add any during the OCI.


If the OPs car is the 2.0 Ecoboost then that engine is specced for 5w20 in the UK, Castrol make a specific product for Ecoboosts.

So I doubt it will do any damage to the engine life.

It is interesting that now the UK is using thinner Oils than the US in the same engine.
 
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