So many carelessl usless people out there. All they care is money. Make a sale and forget about what has been promises. What makes no sense is how people don't take pride in what they do..that is pathetic. Go to the very end for all of us [censored] off. Hold them accountable
Dealer Repairs - Round 3 - WWYD?
- Thread starter tony1679
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You are asking us what we would do. What would make you happy with this dealer?
That's what you need to truthfully answer. As others have said mention the breach of contract and how you want your money back.
That's what you need to truthfully answer. As others have said mention the breach of contract and how you want your money back.
If the car needed anything it should have been a condition of the sale, as in completed before delivery.
Your situation is unfortunate, but not unexpected. Getting lawyers involved is all well and good but I think it would be cheaper/easier to just have the car repaired properly and move on.
Your situation is unfortunate, but not unexpected. Getting lawyers involved is all well and good but I think it would be cheaper/easier to just have the car repaired properly and move on.
Isn't it like $75 in parts to put aftermarket rotors and pads on your civic?
Where is the car leaking oil from
Where is the car leaking oil from
Originally Posted by parshisa
So many carelessl usless people out there. All they care is money. Make a sale and forget about what has been promises. What makes no sense is how people don't take pride in what they do..that is pathetic. Go to the very end for all of us [censored] off. Hold them accountable
Finally someone gets it!
So many carelessl usless people out there. All they care is money. Make a sale and forget about what has been promises. What makes no sense is how people don't take pride in what they do..that is pathetic. Go to the very end for all of us [censored] off. Hold them accountable
Finally someone gets it!
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
If the car needed anything it should have been a condition of the sale, as in completed before delivery.
Your situation is unfortunate, but not unexpected. Getting lawyers involved is all well and good but I think it would be cheaper/easier to just have the car repaired properly and move on.
I agree. But THEY are the ones that made a big deal of it during the sale negotiations. They wanted the extra money (instead of discounting it as-is) so their techs could fix it. I wanted it as-is. So since they essentially charged me extra, they are going to do what I paid for. Period. They aren't going to charge me for something and then not do it. I'm not a sucker. They brought this on themselves.
Edit: They tried to play the as-is card when I dropped it off yesterday. I should have said "I wanted it as-is, but YOU GUYS chose not to let it be sold that way. Not my problem." That would have been hilarious.
If the car needed anything it should have been a condition of the sale, as in completed before delivery.
Your situation is unfortunate, but not unexpected. Getting lawyers involved is all well and good but I think it would be cheaper/easier to just have the car repaired properly and move on.
I agree. But THEY are the ones that made a big deal of it during the sale negotiations. They wanted the extra money (instead of discounting it as-is) so their techs could fix it. I wanted it as-is. So since they essentially charged me extra, they are going to do what I paid for. Period. They aren't going to charge me for something and then not do it. I'm not a sucker. They brought this on themselves.
Edit: They tried to play the as-is card when I dropped it off yesterday. I should have said "I wanted it as-is, but YOU GUYS chose not to let it be sold that way. Not my problem." That would have been hilarious.
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Well, I'm looking for a lawyer tomorrow. THREE times they had my Civic in their shop and not once could they find/fix an oil leak that they confirmed was there at the time of sale and confirmed in writing would be fixed prior to delivery. They even dyed it on the 3rd visit. Yet the indy shop (and I) can confirm without even taking the skid plate off that it's leaking everywhere and once the plate is removed, it's clearly coming from the 'pan gasket.' The GM refuses to make it right citing, and I quote, "That shop just wants to upsell you. My techs and I saw no leak," yet this is the same guy that (when I questioned the alignment being out of spec for toe/camber) said "I drove it, the alignment is fine."
So oil pouring everywhere is apparently "fixing a leak" these days, driving a car and consulting the butt dyno means it is within the fractions of a degree of spec contrary to a calibrated machine, and a complete lack of any and all competence (and total [censored] behavior) is how business is handled there. I'm hoping a lawyer sees to it that it comes to an end. Even if it costs me in the end, as long as it costs them too, it's worth it at this point. I can't see anything going against me, as I have everything in writing. I'm so [censored] I think I'll take it as far as I can go just out of spite. Nobody is going to discredit me (and another shop) with verifiable physical proof in writing, and say I'm just trying to be a thorn in their [censored] trying to nickel and dime them.
This dealership (and all the others that carry this name) just made #1 on my ban list. Rant over.
Edit: For those wondering, I'm throwing them under the bus now. This is Bob Howard Acura/Honda of OKC.
So oil pouring everywhere is apparently "fixing a leak" these days, driving a car and consulting the butt dyno means it is within the fractions of a degree of spec contrary to a calibrated machine, and a complete lack of any and all competence (and total [censored] behavior) is how business is handled there. I'm hoping a lawyer sees to it that it comes to an end. Even if it costs me in the end, as long as it costs them too, it's worth it at this point. I can't see anything going against me, as I have everything in writing. I'm so [censored] I think I'll take it as far as I can go just out of spite. Nobody is going to discredit me (and another shop) with verifiable physical proof in writing, and say I'm just trying to be a thorn in their [censored] trying to nickel and dime them.
This dealership (and all the others that carry this name) just made #1 on my ban list. Rant over.
Edit: For those wondering, I'm throwing them under the bus now. This is Bob Howard Acura/Honda of OKC.
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I had this problem with dealer I bought my used Saturn Vue from and no one not even the guy who came to my job to get me to go work for him could or would fix what was reported to carfax as repaired. I even had the receipt but nothing mattered so I did front pads, tune up and oil change myself. I left oil seepage and door locks until extended warranty but check engine light came on for O2 sensor heater. I brought it in with leak, door locks and engine light and got turned down on everything except sensor which they tried 100.00 deductible. I told them same story and was told that work was done and these things are broken from abuse. I told them I was picking up car which they tried the 125.00 diagnose fee plus shop fee. One call to GM no charge and I fixed it with a 20.00 sensor. Fast forward 9 years I am looking for another car and find a deal I can't pass up and it is from same dealer. I can't get anyone to match deal and I suspect scam but I call and get it for advertised price and salesman says let me fill up and get oil changed. Neither were done but had almost full fuel and a bogus oil change sticker. I laughed as nothing has changed with them and all warranty work will be done elsewhere.
Originally Posted by tony1679
Well, I'm looking for a lawyer tomorrow. THREE times they had my Civic in their shop and not once could they find/fix an oil leak that they confirmed was there at the time of sale and confirmed in writing would be fixed prior to delivery. They even dyed it on the 3rd visit. Yet the indy shop (and I) can confirm without even taking the skid plate off that it's leaking everywhere and once the plate is removed, it's clearly coming from the 'pan gasket.' The GM refuses to make it right citing, and I quote, "That shop just wants to upsell you. My techs and I saw no leak," yet this is the same guy that (when I questioned the alignment being out of spec for toe/camber) said "I drove it, the alignment is fine."
So oil pouring everywhere is apparently "fixing a leak" these days, driving a car and consulting the butt dyno means it is within the fractions of a degree of spec contrary to a calibrated machine, and a complete lack of any and all competence (and total [censored] behavior) is how business is handled there. I'm hoping a lawyer sees to it that it comes to an end. Even if it costs me in the end, as long as it costs them too, it's worth it at this point. I can't see anything going against me, as I have everything in writing. I'm so [censored] I think I'll take it as far as I can go just out of spite. Nobody is going to discredit me (and another shop) with verifiable physical proof in writing, and say I'm just trying to be a thorn in their [censored] trying to nickel and dime them.
This dealership (and all the others that carry this name) just made #1 on my ban list. Rant over.
Edit: For those wondering, I'm throwing them under the bus now. This is Bob Howard Acura/Honda of OKC.
hey tony! I've been following your thread and just wanted to tell you that I support what you're doing! I've had the same exact lack-of-care attitude from Honda dealers in the past. They are an arrogant bunch, not all but most of them. I know others will say it's stupid, but they promised you something, you're not receiving what was promised (in writing no less!) and you're going to make them stand by their word. That's not stupid, that's called being fair.
I once went to a Honda dealer for an alignment, the steering wheel was off at the 11'oclock position. They did the alignment I drove it, it was now off to the opposite side, at 2'oclock position. I took it back into the shop (5 min after I left) and I talked to the service advisor, he said he'd talk to the technician. Next thing I know, some guy is running out of a door screaming at me to "GET THE F*** out of here".. It was the service manager! I never even met the guy before! I said "what the heck are you screaming about? I came in for an alignment and the steering wheel is still off center.." He was screaming and ranting.. looking back I should've called the cops for assault. This service manager told me if I didn't leave he'd be calling the cops and get the F out.. Wow.. just wow.. My younger self just wanted to leave, my older self now would've fought it and called the cops myself. Insane. All because I dare question their work?! I've found that most dealers (not all, there are some good ones, but rare!) cannot do a proper wheel alignment at all! It's like it's some magical thing that they cannot master.. I didn't get good alignments until I went to a tire shop, which you know people make fun of. I have found one good honda dealer out there, but as they say, rare as hens teeth!
anyway..you keep us updated, and I hope you don't let them touch your car again, just get the $$$ from them and pay the independent (who seems very honest) to do the job right! so many liars out there, it's ridiculous!
Well, I'm looking for a lawyer tomorrow. THREE times they had my Civic in their shop and not once could they find/fix an oil leak that they confirmed was there at the time of sale and confirmed in writing would be fixed prior to delivery. They even dyed it on the 3rd visit. Yet the indy shop (and I) can confirm without even taking the skid plate off that it's leaking everywhere and once the plate is removed, it's clearly coming from the 'pan gasket.' The GM refuses to make it right citing, and I quote, "That shop just wants to upsell you. My techs and I saw no leak," yet this is the same guy that (when I questioned the alignment being out of spec for toe/camber) said "I drove it, the alignment is fine."
So oil pouring everywhere is apparently "fixing a leak" these days, driving a car and consulting the butt dyno means it is within the fractions of a degree of spec contrary to a calibrated machine, and a complete lack of any and all competence (and total [censored] behavior) is how business is handled there. I'm hoping a lawyer sees to it that it comes to an end. Even if it costs me in the end, as long as it costs them too, it's worth it at this point. I can't see anything going against me, as I have everything in writing. I'm so [censored] I think I'll take it as far as I can go just out of spite. Nobody is going to discredit me (and another shop) with verifiable physical proof in writing, and say I'm just trying to be a thorn in their [censored] trying to nickel and dime them.
This dealership (and all the others that carry this name) just made #1 on my ban list. Rant over.
Edit: For those wondering, I'm throwing them under the bus now. This is Bob Howard Acura/Honda of OKC.
hey tony! I've been following your thread and just wanted to tell you that I support what you're doing! I've had the same exact lack-of-care attitude from Honda dealers in the past. They are an arrogant bunch, not all but most of them. I know others will say it's stupid, but they promised you something, you're not receiving what was promised (in writing no less!) and you're going to make them stand by their word. That's not stupid, that's called being fair.
I once went to a Honda dealer for an alignment, the steering wheel was off at the 11'oclock position. They did the alignment I drove it, it was now off to the opposite side, at 2'oclock position. I took it back into the shop (5 min after I left) and I talked to the service advisor, he said he'd talk to the technician. Next thing I know, some guy is running out of a door screaming at me to "GET THE F*** out of here".. It was the service manager! I never even met the guy before! I said "what the heck are you screaming about? I came in for an alignment and the steering wheel is still off center.." He was screaming and ranting.. looking back I should've called the cops for assault. This service manager told me if I didn't leave he'd be calling the cops and get the F out.. Wow.. just wow.. My younger self just wanted to leave, my older self now would've fought it and called the cops myself. Insane. All because I dare question their work?! I've found that most dealers (not all, there are some good ones, but rare!) cannot do a proper wheel alignment at all! It's like it's some magical thing that they cannot master.. I didn't get good alignments until I went to a tire shop, which you know people make fun of. I have found one good honda dealer out there, but as they say, rare as hens teeth!
anyway..you keep us updated, and I hope you don't let them touch your car again, just get the $$$ from them and pay the independent (who seems very honest) to do the job right! so many liars out there, it's ridiculous!
researcher, thanks for your input. It does seem like a few didn't understand. I see you're not one of them. I did file an official complaint with the OK AG, and I'm waiting to hear back from an attorney who seems interested in my case. Against my better judgement, I was absolutely as fair as I possibly could have been when filing the complaint (a.k.a. I wasn't a whining child, I played the logical adult role). I'll give a few tidbits, editing out names. When prompted with "Please describe your complaint in detail:" I wrote:
"The used vehicle I purchased was supposed to be properly aligned, have new brakes, and be free of oil leaks prior to being delivered to me. After three visits, it's still profusely leaking oil, and still misaligned (confirmed by an independent certified third-party repair shop in writing after each repair attempt). The brakes were finally corrected on the third visit. I've given the GM every opportunity to correct the issues and/or make things right, but I, as well as the third-party shop are now being shrugged off and ignored. I'm now a nuisance. Perhaps they should have either fixed it correctly the first time, or allowed me to accept the vehicle as-is in the deal (they refused to allow the vehicle to drive off as-is citing safety reasons...ironic considering that's what ended up happening anyway). Since they wouldn't allow a discount to drive off as-is, and still haven't properly repaired my vehicle, I feel I've paid for a service that wasn't performed, and therefore I feel this is extremely deceptive and/or fraud/breach of contract. I just want my vehicle to be fixed as was promised in writing multiple times, including "will fix oil leak" hand-written and signed by [GM] himself."
And when asked "What would you consider a fair resolution of this complaint?:"
"At this point, after the way I've been treated, I'm ready to go to any extreme out of spite, including pursuing damages. Even if litigation costs me far more than it's really worth, it's worth it to me. This is step one of many to come unless this dealership upholds their end of the written deal. All it would take to end this battle is just fulfilling what was promised: a truly correct alignment (which should be verified correct by 2/3 repair facilities, themselves, a shop of my choice, and a mutually agreed shop since third-party incompetence was claimed by the GM) properly fixing the oil leak (properly meaning they disclose exactly where the leak is coming from, what exact parts were serviced/replaced, there are no other leaks from other sources/parts within 30 days, and the leak does not reappear within six months to a year from those disclosed/serviced parts to avoid sub-par quality repairs). I'm not agreeing to anything unless in writing to both parties' complete satisfaction. I would prefer a mutually agreed third party repair facility considering the repetitive failures, but ultimately just want it fixed. I feel I cannot be more fair in this resolution."
Now here's the best part. I'm very curious if the GM has the final say in this, because I'm installing new tires this weekend. Out of his own mouth on my final visit, he asked "When will you be putting new tires on it?" This was asked because they were also going to include new tires, however it was agreed they would not, and therefore allowing a discount on the price (the tires are all still above the wear indicators). I told him "within the month." He replied with "well it'll need a new alignment at that point" followed by something along the lines of 'we won't be responsible for the alignment then.' To me, that is a clear indication that he thinks installing new tires somehow changes the alignment specs, which further proves my incompetence allegations. That's one more battle I'm going to encounter.
The AG has 4 weeks to both serve the dealer and notify me of their (the AG) course of action. We'll see at some point thereafter what the dealer's response will be.
Edit: Should I call the dealer to speak with someone above the GM to calmly inform them a complaint has been filed (to raise a few eyebrows), or just wait until the AG says surprise? I'm torn 50/50. The arrogant side of me says call them, the logical side says wait.
"The used vehicle I purchased was supposed to be properly aligned, have new brakes, and be free of oil leaks prior to being delivered to me. After three visits, it's still profusely leaking oil, and still misaligned (confirmed by an independent certified third-party repair shop in writing after each repair attempt). The brakes were finally corrected on the third visit. I've given the GM every opportunity to correct the issues and/or make things right, but I, as well as the third-party shop are now being shrugged off and ignored. I'm now a nuisance. Perhaps they should have either fixed it correctly the first time, or allowed me to accept the vehicle as-is in the deal (they refused to allow the vehicle to drive off as-is citing safety reasons...ironic considering that's what ended up happening anyway). Since they wouldn't allow a discount to drive off as-is, and still haven't properly repaired my vehicle, I feel I've paid for a service that wasn't performed, and therefore I feel this is extremely deceptive and/or fraud/breach of contract. I just want my vehicle to be fixed as was promised in writing multiple times, including "will fix oil leak" hand-written and signed by [GM] himself."
And when asked "What would you consider a fair resolution of this complaint?:"
"At this point, after the way I've been treated, I'm ready to go to any extreme out of spite, including pursuing damages. Even if litigation costs me far more than it's really worth, it's worth it to me. This is step one of many to come unless this dealership upholds their end of the written deal. All it would take to end this battle is just fulfilling what was promised: a truly correct alignment (which should be verified correct by 2/3 repair facilities, themselves, a shop of my choice, and a mutually agreed shop since third-party incompetence was claimed by the GM) properly fixing the oil leak (properly meaning they disclose exactly where the leak is coming from, what exact parts were serviced/replaced, there are no other leaks from other sources/parts within 30 days, and the leak does not reappear within six months to a year from those disclosed/serviced parts to avoid sub-par quality repairs). I'm not agreeing to anything unless in writing to both parties' complete satisfaction. I would prefer a mutually agreed third party repair facility considering the repetitive failures, but ultimately just want it fixed. I feel I cannot be more fair in this resolution."
Now here's the best part. I'm very curious if the GM has the final say in this, because I'm installing new tires this weekend. Out of his own mouth on my final visit, he asked "When will you be putting new tires on it?" This was asked because they were also going to include new tires, however it was agreed they would not, and therefore allowing a discount on the price (the tires are all still above the wear indicators). I told him "within the month." He replied with "well it'll need a new alignment at that point" followed by something along the lines of 'we won't be responsible for the alignment then.' To me, that is a clear indication that he thinks installing new tires somehow changes the alignment specs, which further proves my incompetence allegations. That's one more battle I'm going to encounter.
The AG has 4 weeks to both serve the dealer and notify me of their (the AG) course of action. We'll see at some point thereafter what the dealer's response will be.
Edit: Should I call the dealer to speak with someone above the GM to calmly inform them a complaint has been filed (to raise a few eyebrows), or just wait until the AG says surprise? I'm torn 50/50. The arrogant side of me says call them, the logical side says wait.
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I believe rooflessVW was saying to not waste all this energy on proving that your right to an entity that doesn't care about you or your Lawyer.
Originally Posted by clinebarger
I believe rooflessVW was saying to not waste all this energy on proving that your right to an entity that doesn't care about you or your Lawyer.
Right.
Swallow your pride and move on. Pay to have the car fixed properly elsewhere. All this stress over a few hundred bucks and "the principle of it" just isn't worth it.
I believe rooflessVW was saying to not waste all this energy on proving that your right to an entity that doesn't care about you or your Lawyer.
Right.
Swallow your pride and move on. Pay to have the car fixed properly elsewhere. All this stress over a few hundred bucks and "the principle of it" just isn't worth it.
And they'll continue to prey on the uneducated and continue to get away with it until someone (me) pits their foot down...
Originally Posted by tony1679
And they'll continue to prey on the uneducated and continue to get away with it until someone (me) pits their foot down...
Yes....They will continue to sell USED cars long after YOU put your foot down.
And they'll continue to prey on the uneducated and continue to get away with it until someone (me) pits their foot down...
Yes....They will continue to sell USED cars long after YOU put your foot down.
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by tony1679
And they'll continue to prey on the uneducated and continue to get away with it until someone (me) pits their foot down...
Yes....They will continue to sell USED cars long after YOU put your foot down.
I guess I don't understand your point. My point is they knew of a flaw and insisted they fix it. They chose not to sell it as-is. Now when they want to keep the extra cash AND tell me to kick rocks, that is a problem.
If your point is that 'it's a used car, it's going to have problems' I agree, but they are the ones who made a big deal about fixing it. I wanted to take possession of it leaking oil so that I could fix it and avoid the very problem I'm having. If you understand that then I guess we can only agree to disagree
.
Originally Posted by tony1679
And they'll continue to prey on the uneducated and continue to get away with it until someone (me) pits their foot down...
Yes....They will continue to sell USED cars long after YOU put your foot down.
I guess I don't understand your point. My point is they knew of a flaw and insisted they fix it. They chose not to sell it as-is. Now when they want to keep the extra cash AND tell me to kick rocks, that is a problem.
If your point is that 'it's a used car, it's going to have problems' I agree, but they are the ones who made a big deal about fixing it. I wanted to take possession of it leaking oil so that I could fix it and avoid the very problem I'm having. If you understand that then I guess we can only agree to disagree
Originally Posted by clinebarger
I believe rooflessVW was saying to not waste all this energy on proving that your right to an entity that doesn't care about you or your Lawyer.
They should care about his lawyer.
Small time crooks know that the people that huff and puff about legal action rarely follow through. Until the notice gets served, they aren't going to respect you.
I believe rooflessVW was saying to not waste all this energy on proving that your right to an entity that doesn't care about you or your Lawyer.
They should care about his lawyer.
Small time crooks know that the people that huff and puff about legal action rarely follow through. Until the notice gets served, they aren't going to respect you.
Originally Posted by eljefino
Originally Posted by clinebarger
I believe rooflessVW was saying to not waste all this energy on proving that your right to an entity that doesn't care about you or your Lawyer.
They should care about his lawyer.
Small time crooks know that the people that huff and puff about legal action rarely follow through. Until the notice gets served, they aren't going to respect you.
If they cared about him or his lawyer, they would have stuck to the deal. The dealership is most likely represented by a very large and very well connected firm.
You will waste more time and money on your pride than if you just review bomb the dealer and have someone else repair your car.
Originally Posted by clinebarger
I believe rooflessVW was saying to not waste all this energy on proving that your right to an entity that doesn't care about you or your Lawyer.
They should care about his lawyer.
Small time crooks know that the people that huff and puff about legal action rarely follow through. Until the notice gets served, they aren't going to respect you.
If they cared about him or his lawyer, they would have stuck to the deal. The dealership is most likely represented by a very large and very well connected firm.
You will waste more time and money on your pride than if you just review bomb the dealer and have someone else repair your car.
If the repairs weren't writting into the sales contract, then I think you are just wasting more time and possibly more money with an attorney. A lesson learned. Ed
Originally Posted by tony1679
The AG has 4 weeks to both serve the dealer and notify me of their (the AG) course of action. We'll see at some point thereafter what the dealer's response will be.
The AG might say they're not interested in pursuing this too, right ?
Originally Posted by tony1679
Edit: Should I call the dealer to speak with someone above the GM to calmly inform them a complaint has been filed (to raise a few eyebrows), or just wait until the AG says surprise? I'm torn 50/50. The arrogant side of me says call them, the logical side says wait.
I think you've given them sufficient opportunity, warning, and so on. I wouldn't trust them to touch the car at this point. I'd insist having the repair done by another shop and be reimbursed for the cost(s).
The AG has 4 weeks to both serve the dealer and notify me of their (the AG) course of action. We'll see at some point thereafter what the dealer's response will be.
The AG might say they're not interested in pursuing this too, right ?
Originally Posted by tony1679
Edit: Should I call the dealer to speak with someone above the GM to calmly inform them a complaint has been filed (to raise a few eyebrows), or just wait until the AG says surprise? I'm torn 50/50. The arrogant side of me says call them, the logical side says wait.
I think you've given them sufficient opportunity, warning, and so on. I wouldn't trust them to touch the car at this point. I'd insist having the repair done by another shop and be reimbursed for the cost(s).
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