Dealer Lubricant Fraud

[pitzel]

https://youtu.be/53IYXsxZDfo?t=868

In a nutshell, the guy, a well regarded, beyond-belief meticulous and salt-of-the-Earth YouTube mechanic's wife recently bought a KIA GDI engine that explicitly spec'ed a fairly high grade synthetic 5W-30 oil.

When he called the dealers trying to procure said oil, it appeared that the brand's own branded oil was not available. For dealer oil changes, when he consulted with 3 dealers, he was informed that the dealers use bulk oil that was more than likely not synthetic and that the dealer was unable to identify to him the actual oil they used.

How widespread is this sort of "lubricant fraud"? When people take their vehicles for service at the dealer of the brand, they have an expectation that maintenance will be performed to manufacturer's stated specifications including the use of the proper fluids.

Might this be one of the big elephants in the room regarding the notorious GDI intake issues that the OEMs are having extreme difficulty even replicating, let alone dealing with in their designs? The overly frequent DIY oil changers have their overly frequent oil changes to blame for some of the GDI problems. Those who get their services done by dealers at even "normal" intervals may have dealers that don't appreciate the importance of using on-spec oil. Some of the worst cases by far that I've seen in various car forums appear to involve a combination of overly frequent, *and* quickie lube or dealer servicing.

 

[maxdustington]

Originally Posted by pitzel
Might this be one of the big elephants in the room regarding the notorious GDI intake issues that the OEMs are having extreme difficulty even replicating, let alone dealing with in their designs? The overly frequent DIY oil changers have their overly frequent oil changes to blame for some of the GDI problems. Those who get their services done by dealers at even "normal" intervals may have dealers that don't appreciate the importance of using on-spec oil. Some of the worst cases by far that I've seen in various car forums appear to involve a combination of overly frequent, *and* quickie lube or dealer servicing.
I'm sure it doesn't help, but even using the right oil at a conservative OCI does not guarantee anything.
It shows you what "dealership maintained" really means: maintained by a shop that doesn't need to retain customers.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted by pitzel
How widespread is this sort of "lubricant fraud"? When people take their vehicles for service at the dealer of the brand, they have an expectation that maintenance will be performed to manufacturer's stated specifications including the use of the proper fluids.

That's the chance you take when they fill your crankcase out of a hose and nozzle, instead of from a sealed jug or bottle. Yet another reason to avoid dealers and "Quick Lube" places for oil changes. Anytime you add another business or person in the link between you and the factory, the possibility of fraud and deception increases. Much like gas stations, you really have no idea where the product being pumped into your vehicle actually came from. Let alone if it's "better" than the place down the street selling the same thing. It's all dependent on trust. Anyone can hang a sign out that states how wonderful they, along with the products they use are.

 

[OilUzer]

surprised Kia specifies syn. We have a Hyundai gdi and the oil recommendation doesn't specify syn or dino ... It just says 5w20 or 5wx30 or 10wx30 ... All cars I've ever owned there were no mention of syn or blend of dino. Some may say 0Wx20 or BMW this or that, etc. which may only be available in syn (e.g. in case of 0Wx20).
Also there is nothing wrong with dino. People have used dino forever and gdi issues are mainly due to crappy design. I wouldn't blame the oil. I used dino for many years in our gdi and changef the oil more frequently than when I use syn. A lot of dealers may use syn blend.
I wouldn't worry about using a 5Wx30 dino or Syn blend even if the car recommended 5Wx30 syn unless if i was racing ... lol

I guess in case of turbo gdi the d1g2 or d2 oil may help the lspi so you will need syn. I don't think they come in di no.

 

[AnthemBassMan]

At the lube shop where I work part time, we have customers who don't want to have to pay for full synthetic/Dexos oil even though their vehicles require it. Some of them is the first oil change after the factory fill. We tell them what is required, but they choose the cheaper synthetic blend pump oil we use. All we can do is note it in the computer that they didn't want the required oil. Can't understand why people will spend $30k-$70k on a new vehicle and shortcut the oil changes.

L8R,
Matt

 

[dlundblad]

I've read here before that Hyundai/ Kia dealers don't use what the manual specifies. Good or bad? No idea.. I am guessing they push the 3k OCI's too.

If an issue arises with a life full of dealer changes, it's on them obviously. Most normal people could care less while nobody here would let this happen.. Lol.

 

[billt460]

I think where this is the most critical is with automatic transmissions. Many of the newer models require a very specific fluid. Many of which are not available anywhere else except at the dealer. I had a co worker a few years back, who had his transmission fluid and filter serviced on a newer Nissan Versa at a major tire center, and they put in the wrong type of fluid. About 1,000 miles later the transmission started giving him all kinds of trouble.

He took it to the dealer and they told him the transmission was filled with the wrong fluid. (He never mentioned where he had it changed when he took it in). And that is what caused all of the damage. Legal action followed. The bottom line is the tire center who did the service eventually paid the almost $4K to replace the transmission. But not without him incurring a lot of legal expense chasing after them for what amounted to months.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

"he was informed that the dealers use bulk oil that was more than likely not synthetic and that the dealer was unable to identify to him the actual oil they used."

Unless a Kia service tech chimes in on this thread the 'salt of the earth' YouTuber is just relaying hearsay that the individuals spoken to at various dealers have a clue about the type of oil used in their perspective service depts.

 

[MParr]

KIA pushes Total oil. What any given dealer uses for oil changes is anyone's guess. LSPI issues and oil? I ain't buying into that theory.

 

[javacontour]

Just don't see that it needs some special oil. From the Canadian 2019 Kia Sedona Owner's Manual, pg 8-6:

ACEA A5 or above
* If the ACEA A5 engine oil is not available in
your country, you are able to use API service SL,
IL SAC GF-3, ACEA A3.

Next page gives temp ranges for 5W30 and 10W30 oils.

Doesn't seem it's a special, synthetic oil requirement. Much ado about little to nothing.

 

[javacontour]

I chose Canadian, because one has to register to get the US version of the manual. I don't expect the US version to be all that different.

 

[BobGoblin]

My KIA Ceed (2017) with MPI engine requires ACEA A5 5w30

At dealers they put ACEA C3 (Shell Helix Ultra ECT C3) in my engine. (if the were only put ACEA C2 with the same HTHS as A5, but no, they put C3). After that first service, I do oil changes my self.

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted by pitzel
...a KIA GDI engine that explicitly spec'ed a fairly high grade synthetic 5W-30 oil.

Not sure if "explicity spec'ed" is your words or the guy in the video (he only said 'ACEA A5' with no add'l commentary at the part I saw) but it's wrong. As the other person posted from the Canadian manual, it reads

• If the ACEA A5 engine oil is not available in your country, you are able to use API service SL, IL SAC GF-3, ACEA A3

ACEA A5 is only recommended. Big, big difference between "recommended" and "explicitly spec'ed". That means you can use Dollar General-branded, conventional oil and it's just fine.

 

[StevieC]

I know a well known auto repair chain up here puts in 5w30 in 5w20 applications all the time but bills the customer for whatever they asked for. Most of the time it gets conventional instead of synthetic when asked for as well. They have been doing it for a while.

 

[JustN89]

I'm sorry, I don't understand how this is "dealer lubricant fraud". The Kia manual doesn't list ACEA A5/B5 as the only required spec. It lists a multitude of specs that are approved. Eric is misunderstanding the specs in his owner's manual. Is it surprising that most service writers don't know what they use? Not really. Many dealerships have at least two types of bulk oil, and asking what they would use in your new car depends largely on what you're willing to pay for that oil change. There's really nothing to see here, and certainly no "dealer lubricant fraud".

 

[Spector]

I was looking at the Hyundai Iconic and noted that it required 0W20 oil, I then went to the service dept and asked if they stocked 0W20 and they stated no. Asked what would happen when the Iconic came in for an oil change, they said we would send out for the oil, hmm, I do not believe them. they would put in the 5W20 bulk they put into everything. I guess one has to ask before leaving the vehicle with them for an oil change.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted by AnthemBassMan
At the lube shop where I work part time, we have customers who don't want to have to pay for full synthetic/Dexos oil even though their vehicles require it. Some of them is the first oil change after the factory fill. We tell them what is required, but they choose the cheaper synthetic blend pump oil we use. All we can do is note it in the computer that they didn't want the required oil. Can't understand why people will spend $30k-$70k on a new vehicle and shortcut the oil changes.

L8R,
Matt

BITOG members fuss over $3-$5 for a jug of oil in their 20-30K vehicles all the time. 3-4 cents a day is important to them I guess.

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted by Spector
I was looking at the Hyundai Iconic and noted that it required 0W20 oil, I then went to the service dept and asked if they stocked 0W20 and they stated no. Asked what would happen when the Iconic came in for an oil change, they said we would send out for the oil, hmm, I do not believe them. they would put in the 5W20 bulk they put into everything. I guess one has to ask before leaving the vehicle with them for an oil change.

Likely they would send out for the oil.

My VW/BMW store gets anything they don't stock (oil, filters, parts, etc) from the Carquest down the street. It used to be a Mazda/VW store and many of the older customers still bring their Mazdas.

 

[Patman]

This is why I will never let anyone change my oil but me.

 

[csandste]

If it's a brrand spec, Kia pushes Total, Hyundai pushes Quaker State. If the definition is a dealership with Total in a bulk tank doubt if many dealers follow that one. I'm sure any oil company with the money could get the recommendation changed when the oil brand contract is up.

I'd like to know what the OP's Youtube mechanic's wife's oil specifications actually were.

Between friends and relatives, we've got all three sizes of HyunKia four cylinder engines covered. Think they're all relatively easy on oil specs. Personally I'm comfortable with 5-30 "conventional" oils on a 5K OCI or group III at 6K. Almost any conventional SN/SN+ oil is roughly 40% group III anyway, depending on weight. Noticed that Walmart has Magnetec listed as their semi-syn quick lube oil as branding differentiations break down. (If I was allowed to change my own oil I would use a cheap group III instead of VWB or Maxlife--bottled oil prices are far closer together than oil change bulk oils which greatly mark up synthetics).