Dealer Filled BMW 0w20 LL14FE in M4, any concern?

[AC1DD]

Originally Posted by JamesGames


Yes, if anything happens to the car at least I have proof on paper from both the dealer and the confirmation of oil weight from blackstone.



I'd advise that you call BMW NA and open up a ticket about this, it's clear that the dealer didn't follow BMW's own instructions and you should document it with the mfr and make a formal complaint and get it in writing that it was processed by BMW NA.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by d00df00d
Do you know for a fact that LL-14FE / 0W-20 is not permitted for the S55 under any circumstances? I wonder if BMW's internal guidelines say it's permissible in very cold climates or something. If so, your engine is probably fine. If not... your engine is still probably fine, if we're honest. But either way, it's worth double-checking this with BMW NA to see how much of a case you have for compensation.

If it turns out this oil is strictly verboten, BMW NA needs to extend your powertrain warranty at the dealer's expense IMO.

Either way, I'd say a call to BMW NA is in order. FWIW.

For future oil changes: FCP Euro. Know it, love it.



S55 requires a min HTHS of 3.0

So LL01/LL01FE or the low/mid-saps cousins LL04/LL12FE. Could you imagine if the OP tracked the car?

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Could you imagine if the OP tracked the car?

I'd rather not. lol

 

[PimTac]

BMW still uses lead in bearings? I doubt it.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I had the opposite,

Dealer Service grease monkeys ( usually any moron for 10 bucks an hour)

Put VW 502 in my car calling for 508 00.

Car hasn't been the same since. Shifter vibrates badly, Turbo is screaming loudly.

Luckily it's VW's car - I'm just driving it.

Ahh, lease up in 9 months

:0

 

[Bjornviken]

Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
I had the opposite,

Dealer Service grease monkeys ( usually any moron for 10 bucks an hour)

Put VW 502 in my car calling for 508 00.

Car hasn't been the same since. Shifter vibrates badly, Turbo is screaming loudly.

Luckily it's VW's car - I'm just driving it.

Ahh, lease up in 9 months

:0

are you sure they didnt overfill it?

 

[ARCOgraphite]

the 1.4L VW has a dipstick.

They just put bulk oil in. Saw the tank. Saw label on the tank. Service writer pointed to the label on the tank.

VW doesn't care about me. Just like GM or Hyundai

I had the oil changed after 2500 miles AT MY GREAT COST to the VW 508 00 oil in my signature below.

Car eats tires. Bad tires and bad suspension geometry. and bad alignment cheap strut front suspension

The Falken Sincera A/S 250 will be bald by 12k Miles. WITH rotation.

No more garbage VW for me, they are worse then ever.

 

[Bailes1992]

Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
the 1.4L VW has a dipstick.

They just put bulk oil in. Saw the tank. Saw label on the tank. Service writer pointed to the label on the tank.

VW doesn't care about me. Just like GM or Hyundai

I had the oil changed after 2500 miles AT MY GREAT COST to the VW 508 00 oil in my signature below.


No more garbage VW for me, they are worse then ever.


I don't believe you. You have a noisy turbo now because of a 2500 mile interval with a 502.00 oil? Absolute nonsense. Higher HTHS oils protect turbo bearings better.

Actually, I don't believe you'd even notice any physical differences at all. Maybe the slightest bit more sluggish? But even then I think you'd be pulling straws.

At the end of the day, your 0w20 508.00 oil would be thicker at lower temperatures than a 502.00 at operating temperature. So what on earth do you think a 502.00 oil would have done in just 2500miles?

Our Alfa is supposed to have a 0w20 ACEA C5 oil, it currently has Castrol Edge 5w30 LL in it and noticed no difference at all.

My last Volvo V40 needed a 0w20 RBS0-2AE oil, I ran Castrol Edge 5w30 LL followed by Fuchs Titan GT1 XTL 5w40. Again, no difference noticed at all.

My current Volvo V40, again, asks for a 0w20 RBS0-2AE oil and I'm running Shell Helix Ultra ECT C2/C3 0w30 and again, I've noticed absolutely no difference at all.

And finally, my Mothers Suzuki Jimmny asks for a 0w20 API SJ or higher oil. I've run everything from 0w20 to monograde 30's and 15w40 HDEO's in it with no discernible difference. No difference in feel, noise, performance or fuel economy.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

I don't think it hurt anything, but I wouldn't be happy about it. At the very least if the vehicle was driven for the whole OCI, and you have the evidence, I would push for a free extended powertrain warranty. Of course if the car is a lease, it's not your problem.

 

[JamesGames]

I am almost a year out of warranty now (that last oil change was the last one right before warranty ended). I will make a formal complaint to BMW NA but not sure what they will really do as the car is driving fine and has no issue atm.. hopefully no issues in near future with bearings. I will be doing UOA on this car from now on mostly because of curiosity and the different oils I want to try.

What is interesting to note is that other users that have done UOA on the factory fill 0w30 LL01FE have seen the 100c viscosity shear down to nearly a 20 weight as well. For example, this one (UOA says 5w30 but OP on this post stated it was 0w30). Regardless, this one is at 9.0, with flashpoint dropping to 370F. My cars 100c viscosity sheared from around 8.6 to 8.2 in the 1400 mile run using the 0w20.

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24313442&postcount=21

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by JamesGames
I am almost a year out of warranty now (that last oil change was the last one right before warranty ended). I will make a formal complaint to BMW NA but not sure what they will really do as the car is driving fine and has no issue atm.. hopefully no issues in near future with bearings. I will be doing UOA on this car from now on mostly because of curiosity and the different oils I want to try.

What is interesting to note is that other users that have done UOA on the factory fill 0w30 LL01FE have seen the 100c viscosity shear down to nearly a 20 weight as well. For example, this one (UOA says 5w30 but OP on this post stated it was 0w30). Regardless, this one is at 9.0, with flashpoint dropping to 370F. My cars 100c viscosity sheared from around 8.6 to 8.2 in the 1400 mile run using the 0w20.

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24313442&postcount=21



With 2 track sessions on that fill I wouldn't use that UOA to draw any conclusions other than it's wise to change your oil after a track session let alone two track sessions. In fact I believe BMW recommends it under their "checklist" for track environments.

 

[JamesGames]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by JamesGames
I am almost a year out of warranty now (that last oil change was the last one right before warranty ended). I will make a formal complaint to BMW NA but not sure what they will really do as the car is driving fine and has no issue atm.. hopefully no issues in near future with bearings. I will be doing UOA on this car from now on mostly because of curiosity and the different oils I want to try.

What is interesting to note is that other users that have done UOA on the factory fill 0w30 LL01FE have seen the 100c viscosity shear down to nearly a 20 weight as well. For example, this one (UOA says 5w30 but OP on this post stated it was 0w30). Regardless, this one is at 9.0, with flashpoint dropping to 370F. My cars 100c viscosity sheared from around 8.6 to 8.2 in the 1400 mile run using the 0w20.

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24313442&postcount=21



With 2 track sessions on that fill I wouldn't use that UOA to draw any conclusions other than it's wise to change your oil after a track session let alone two track sessions. In fact I believe BMW recommends it under their "checklist" for track environments.


Agree, was just shocked at the viscosity on a 0w30 OE fill. I do want to note that my M4 I only take out on highway drives and canyon runs as it's my weekend car. I wouldn't say I was exactly easy on that oil either in the 1400 miles, but it doesn't compare to 2 full on track days of course and more than double the miles on that oil.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted by PimTac
BMW still uses lead in bearings? I doubt it.

On my car, they ditched leaded bearings in 2010-2011. People have noted that that was in advance of an EU-imposed deadline to stop using lead in various engine parts. I'd imagine that means the rest of the lineup switched away from leaded bearings around the same time.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Is the 0w30 the dealer normally uses one of the FE specs, or regular LL04 (or whatever). If it's the FE than the 20 grade isn't as big of a shift.

 

[JamesGames]

Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Is the 0w30 the dealer normally uses one of the FE specs, or regular LL04 (or whatever). If it's the FE than the 20 grade isn't as big of a shift.

It's the FE version, HTHS of 3.0. Pretty thin oil also, the 0w20 HTHS I believe is 2.7. Which is why that 0w30 UOA showed a 100C viscosity of 9 vs my 8.2 I believe.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Originally Posted by JamesGames
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Is the 0w30 the dealer normally uses one of the FE specs, or regular LL04 (or whatever). If it's the FE than the 20 grade isn't as big of a shift.

It's the FE version, HTHS of 3.0. Pretty thin oil also, the 0w20 HTHS I believe is 2.7. Which is why that 0w30 UOA showed a 100C viscosity of 9 vs my 8.2 I believe.


Ok, in that case I would be annoyed but it wouldn't hurt anything either.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted by Bailes1992
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
the 1.4L VW has a dipstick.

They just put bulk oil in. Saw the tank. Saw label on the tank. Service writer pointed to the label (5W40) on the tank.

.....
I had the oil changed after 2500 miles AT MY GREAT COST to the VW 508 00 oil in my signature below.

......



I don't believe you. You have a noisy turbo now because of a 2500 mile interval with a 502.00 oil? Absolute nonsense. Higher HTHS oils protect turbo bearings better.




I just said I could tell the difference. I have 45+ years extensive experience.

You calling me a liar?

That's bad forum etiquette.

Don't project YOUR FEARS onto MY experience.
_______

I will concede The turbo racket could be a coincidence.

I have MOTUL 508 00 in there now.

But we are talking a BIG difference in HTHS and KV100 between a ACEA A3 5W40
and a 0W20 with near 0W16 HTHS.

Also engine was still "wearing in"

I do think a premium ILSAC 5W30 would do fine in the motor.

It's a 1.4tsi with 6M gearbox. Turbo need more throttle and 700-1000 more rpm to get spooling.
Wrecked the gas mileage. LTA on the DIC went from 41 to 34.

 

[UG_Passat]

BMW's website currently says 0w30 , LL-01FE, which is a lower HTHS (3.0 MPa to 3.5 MPa) than LL-01 (3.5 MPa minimum).

People have said in the past, LL-01 is getting phased out, and going to lower HTHS for better fuel economy and climate change protection

 

[racin4ds]

It isn't just BMW dealers doing this stupid stuff, I just bought a New-to-me Passat TDi and the dealer sticker said it was changed with 0W20!! I dumped it as soon as i got home!

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by UG_Passat
BMW's website currently says 0w30 , LL-01FE, which is a lower HTHS (3.0 MPa to 3.5 MPa) than LL-01 (3.5 MPa minimum).

People have said in the past, LL-01 is getting phased out, and going to lower HTHS for better fuel economy and climate change protection

I am in doubt that LL01 is being phased out.
BMW dealers have LL01 readily available.
Also, there are new 5W30 and 5W40 oils that carry LL01.
In 12/2019 Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 formulation is changed to SN+, and pour point was increased from -45 to -36, So there were substantial formulation changes, yet it has LL01.