Dealer Filled BMW 0w20 LL14FE in M4, any concern?

[JamesGames]

Shocked me when I saw on my service paper from my last oil change at dealer they filled with 0w20, they said probably a typo. However, just got a blackstone UOA back that showed cSt Viscosity @ 100°C 8.20, meaning the dealer did indeed use BMW 0w20 in my BMW M4 that originally came with 5w30 / 0w40 LL01 (basically minimum 3.5 HTHS). Blackstone states that the wear was fine but I'm pretty sure that these UOA don't tell the full story when it comes to wear. I only had the oil in the car for 1450 miles across 8 months (mostly short 15-20 mile trips on highway each time, but oil temps alway reached 215-230f each trip). The UOA shows titanium because the previous fill was Castrol EDGE 0W30 FST. What metals would show up if bearings were wearing faster? I'm concerned that running 0w20 LL14FE in a motor that called for a much heavier weight (LL01 5w30 / 0w40) would have wear issues.

Blackstone report(1450 miles, 8 months run on BMW 0w20 TPT)
ALUMINUM
4
CHROMIUM
0
IRON
4
COPPER
1
LEAD
0
TIN
0
MOLYBDENUM
52
NICKEL
0
MANGANESE
0
SILVER
0
TITANIUM
9
POTASSIUM
0
BORON
87
SILICON
3
SODIUM
3
CALCIUM
1777
MAGNESIUM
29
PHOSPHORUS
672
ZINC
724
BARIUM
0
SUS Viscosity @ 210°F
53.1
cSt Viscosity @ 100°C
8.20
Flashpoint in °F
390
Fuel %
Antifreeze %
0.0
Water %
0.0
Insolubles %
0.1

 

[tig1]

Can't say for your BMW, but I used M1 5-20 in the late 70's in an engine calling for 10-40. No problems. Too much bad press from BITOG concerning 20 wt oils. If you bearings are babbit then lead and tin comes to mind. Your report shows 0-0.

 

[edyvw]

LOL. I never ever trust their word is I see something like that on invoice.
Why don't you just DIY oil changes?

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by tig1
Can't say for your BMW, but I used M1 5-20 in the late 70's in an engine calling for 10-40. No problems. Too much bad press from BITOG concerning 20 wt oils. If you bearings are babbit then lead and tin comes to mind. Your report shows 0-0.

I do not think it is same thing, especially running twin turbo's.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by tig1
Can't say for your BMW, but I used M1 5-20 in the late 70's in an engine calling for 10-40. No problems. Too much bad press from BITOG concerning 20 wt oils. If you bearings are babbit then lead and tin comes to mind. Your report shows 0-0.

I do not think it is same thing, especially running twin turbo's.

I get that, but his concern was this report, which is fine.

 

[Eddie]

I would inform the dealer that they did use 0/5w20 according to a UOA and you want it change the the BMW recommended 5w30 oil. No excuse when paying top dollar that they screw up and then blame the computer ot other. Ed

 

[benjy]

in a colder climate + driving conservatively its prolly OK BUT you paid $$$ for a proper change so they should fix it. unless your physically unable DIY changes are EZE + cheap + you know its done right. betting One change at the stealer will buy 3 at home unless they are free with a contract!!

 

[JamesGames]

Originally Posted by edyvw
LOL. I never ever trust their word is I see something like that on invoice.
Why don't you just DIY oil changes?

Your posts here regarding 0w40 GC / BC 0w30 influenced me a lot to continue using that oil since the green GC 0w30 days.

This was done on the last service (free) and under warranty. BMW came with 4year/50k free maintenance, and they dropped the ball on the final free oil change. I definitely did ask about it, and they had told me it was likely a typo with parts department, but the UOA from blackstone definitely confirmed it was in fact 0w20 LL14FE

. Otherwise I'd do all the oil changes myself.. Once I saw that service paper said BMW 0w20, I literally walked straight to garage, jacked my car up and did a DIY fluid swap hence the relatively low mileage interval of 1450. It is now currently running Castrol Edge 0w40 FST with the LL01 approval still.

And I didn't want to force them to change it to 5w30 because well, frankly, I don't and can't trust them after they put the wrong oil in. In my opinion, ANY tech that works at BMW should know not a SINGLE M CAR ever ran a 20 weight oil.. Even the BMW 0w30 TPT LL01FE is up for debate if it's too thin, let alone 0w20.

I live in socal, this fluid was swapped in during the summer months of 2019 until now. Probably not a good thing unfortunately but the UOA looks ok.

 

[JamesGames]

I've seen VOA on the BMW 0w20 and flash point was 440F. After only 1450 miles, 8 months, the flash point is now 390f, seems like a quick drop for such a short amount of miles - fuel dilution and water is minimal, and the car was driven up to 210-230F oil temperatures every single trip.

 

[JamesGames]

Originally Posted by tig1
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by tig1
Can't say for your BMW, but I used M1 5-20 in the late 70's in an engine calling for 10-40. No problems. Too much bad press from BITOG concerning 20 wt oils. If you bearings are babbit then lead and tin comes to mind. Your report shows 0-0.

I do not think it is same thing, especially running twin turbo's.

I get that, but his concern was this report, which is fine.


Thank you for sharing that lead / tin would be bearings - I was wondering which metals the bearings would be as those were my main concerns using an extremely thin oil.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

you're probably fine but I'd be PO'd and I would bring the BS report to the dealer and ask for a free oil change.

 

[JamesGames]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
you're probably fine but I'd be PO'd and I would bring the BS report to the dealer and ask for a free oil change.


I can't get myself to visit the dealer again. My car calls for 6.5 Liters and I drained out over 7 liters, for the second time in a row after they filled it. Which means either they didn't drain it fully out and refilled it, or they just over filled. Regardless, between overfilling, using the wrong oil, splattering all over the engine bay, I'm over it...

Cant trust anybody more than yourself to get something done right, right?

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted by JamesGames
...but I'm pretty sure that these UOA don't tell the full story when it comes to wear.

What's the purpose of these analyses then ? You wanted to fine excess wear (over a single oil change interval ???), but didn't. Nothing is wrong, it's fine.

 

[d00df00d]

Do you know for a fact that LL-14FE / 0W-20 is not permitted for the S55 under any circumstances? I wonder if BMW's internal guidelines say it's permissible in very cold climates or something. If so, your engine is probably fine. If not... your engine is still probably fine, if we're honest. But either way, it's worth double-checking this with BMW NA to see how much of a case you have for compensation.

If it turns out this oil is strictly verboten, BMW NA needs to extend your powertrain warranty at the dealer's expense IMO.

Either way, I'd say a call to BMW NA is in order. FWIW.

For future oil changes: FCP Euro. Know it, love it.

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted by d00df00d
Do you know for a fact that LL-14FE / 0W-20 is not permitted for the S55 under any circumstances? I wonder if BMW's internal guidelines say it's permissible in very cold climates or something.

The OP is in Southern California

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Originally Posted by JamesGames
...but I'm pretty sure that these UOA don't tell the full story when it comes to wear.

What's the purpose of these analyses then ?

UOAs have three main purposes:

1. To track contamination
2. To see how the oil itself is holding up
3. To take money from people who think UOAs are a good way to track wear

They can be used to track wear in theory. In practice, for passenger vehicles, there are so many caveats and limitations that it's almost never worth the time and money. Very few exceptions.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Originally Posted by d00df00d
Do you know for a fact that LL-14FE / 0W-20 is not permitted for the S55 under any circumstances? I wonder if BMW's internal guidelines say it's permissible in very cold climates or something.

The OP is in Southern California

I know.

OP also said he drove his car mostly on the highway. This car has an oil cooling system with a thermostat, which means peak oil temps won't be that different across climates with highway use. So, if BMW thinks this oil will work in this engine at all, that would mean it probably didn't do any significant damage in a short OCI with mild highway driving.

It would also give BMW NA an excuse to weasel out of helping OP as they should. Whether they have that excuse might affect OP's decision about whether to spend time and effort pursuing this issue further.

So, again, the first step is to find out.

 

[JamesGames]

BMW started off calling for LL01 oils for the S55 so that alone eliminated LL14FE oils. The thinnest they ever allowed after that was LL01FE . LL01 oils must be 3.5 hths or higher and LL01FE is 3.0 or 3.1. This 0w20 oil was 2 7 I believe, much thinner than originally spec'd. The B series motors were the ones that started allowing the 0w20 LL14.

To answer why I got an analysis at 1450 miles it was more than just to see if there was abnormal wear. I wanted confirmation that the dealer did in fact use a 0w20 weight oil, and wanted to monitor if I had coolant in the oil from a common issue chargecooler leak.

 

[JamesGames]

Originally Posted by d00df00d
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Originally Posted by d00df00d
Do you know for a fact that LL-14FE / 0W-20 is not permitted for the S55 under any circumstances? I wonder if BMW's internal guidelines say it's permissible in very cold climates or something.

The OP is in Southern California

I know.

OP also said he drove his car mostly on the highway. This car has an oil cooling system with a thermostat, which means peak oil temps won't be that different across climates with highway use. So, if BMW thinks this oil will work in this engine at all, that would mean it probably didn't do any significant damage in a short OCI with mild highway driving.

It would also give BMW NA an excuse to weasel out of helping OP as they should. Whether they have that excuse might affect OP's decision about whether to spend time and effort pursuing this issue further.

So, again, the first step is to find out.


Yes, if anything happens to the car at least I have proof on paper from both the dealer and the confirmation of oil weight from blackstone.

 

[AC1DD]

Originally Posted by d00df00d
Do you know for a fact that LL-14FE / 0W-20 is not permitted for the S55 under any circumstances? I wonder if BMW's internal guidelines say it's permissible in very cold climates or something. If so, your engine is probably fine. If not... your engine is still probably fine, if we're honest. But either way, it's worth double-checking this with BMW NA to see how much of a case you have for compensation.

If it turns out this oil is strictly verboten, BMW NA needs to extend your powertrain warranty at the dealer's expense IMO.

Either way, I'd say a call to BMW NA is in order. FWIW.

For future oil changes: FCP Euro. Know it, love it.


Yes to all of your comments it's disgraceful to see a premium brand like this showing gross negligence in their servicing behavior.
I'd definitely call BMW NA and open up a ticket and complaint against this dealer.