Dead cat. converter?

[JAG]

The cat. converter on my 2003 VW GTI 1.8T went "below threshold" (dead) at around 70K miles. Warranty covered it but won't if it happens again and it costs a small fortune.

What are your experiences with converter life? Just curious and polling to look for trends.

 

[ekpolk]

That seems early. Any ideas as to why? And why won't they cover the new cat? That should at a minimum be covered by the service wty most dealers extend to their customers (but I'd think it should be covered to at least the end of the standard emissions wty.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk
That seems early. Any ideas as to why? And why won't they cover the new cat? That should at a minimum be covered by the service wty most dealers extend to their customers (but I'd think it should be covered to at least the end of the standard emissions wty.

In CA on the newest vehicles, they are covered for 15-years or 150k miles if they are a PZEV.

The local hybrid repair shop has seen a number of converter failures well before 100k miles on 1st gen Prius-es and they were a fortune to replace.

It doesn't seem uncommon to hear about converter failures shortly after 100k. I have 108k on my Saturn's converter right now and it'll probably require replacement within the next two years. I barely passed the last smog inspection.

 

[carlprop]

I had one plug up not long after a ARX cleaning phase. But it had a lot of miles on it to begin with.

 

[JAG]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk
That seems early. Any ideas as to why? And why won't they cover the new cat? That should at a minimum be covered by the service wty most dealers extend to their customers (but I'd think it should be covered to at least the end of the standard emissions wty.

My best guess as to why is the converter was weak from the start. I thought the new cat that was covered by the almost-expired-at-the-time emmissions equipment warranty doesn't have its own warranty past the original, but maybe I'm wrong. I'll be thrilled if I am wrong. I must find out because I'm finding myself allowing cat. concerns to influence my motor oil choice which is unfortunate.

 

[Vilan]

I wouldn't let the cat tell you what oil to use. My 94 Metro burns a quart every 500 miles and I'm still on the original cat at 120k. And most of that oil has been SJ or SL, not SM even. My last smog test was marginal for HC but CO and NOx passed easy... I expect I'll need to replace it for HC's sake next time though.

 

[JAG]

Wow, that's a lot of oil consumption and it does ease my concerns.

 

[MrCritical]

If the cat is replaced before the end of the emission warranty it is covered to the end of the emission warranty or 12/12, whichever is longest.

 

[Chris142]

On the Jeep forums the cats seem to die around 80K.

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: JAG
The cat. converter on my 2003 VW GTI 1.8T went "below threshold" (dead) at around 70K miles. Warranty covered it but won't if it happens again and it costs a small fortune.

What are your experiences with converter life? Just curious and polling to look for trends.


My Audi's two original cats are 160k miles/11-1/2 years old. No problems. *knocks on wooden pegleg*

OEM cats tend to last until they break and bits and pieces start blowing out the rear until there's not cat inside the housing. The same thing happens with cheap aftermarket cats, but much sooner. People at AW often have to replace cheap cats after 30k miles. You can get OEM cats probably at $800 a piece.

 

[Kestas]

Originally Posted By: JAG
The cat. converter on my 2003 VW GTI 1.8T went "below threshold"...

Did your car throw an error code?... is that how you (or the dealer) determined the cat is dead?

Whenever I see that code, my first reaction is that the after-cat O2 sensor has gone bad and needs replacing. Has anybody considered this possibility?

 

[JAG]

Yes there was an error code containing the words "below threshold". I can't remember all of it. And yes a bad post-cat O2 sensor can also be the problem but the dealer decided it was the cat and not the O2 sensor. They were correct, since the error code never came back once the cat was replaced.

Mori, I didn't notice any cat parts blowing out the tailpipe but can't say I was watching. How does this manifest itself for those that observed it?

 

[Shannow]

Guy at work had his car limp to work, suffering from no power, no revs, and a glowing exhaust manifold.

Expert opinion ranged from too lean/fuel blockage (from the dirt bike riders), to holed piston, to head gasket, to timing belt jumped some teeth.

My guess was catalyst transfer to the muffler.

It was packed with small pieces of matrix.

 

[speedyswede]

The cat on my Wife's `03 Golf 2.0 kicked the bucket @ 55k miles.

 

[eljefino]

I'm with mori, they seem to start rattling chunks.

Pretty sure the OBD-II programming has to make sure the rear o2 is up to snuff before it runs the cat diagnostics. Why it takes a few days for "readiness monitors" to clear after a new battery goes in.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: JAG
The cat. converter on my 2003 VW GTI 1.8T went "below threshold" (dead) at around 70K miles. Warranty covered it but won't if it happens again and it costs a small fortune.

What are your experiences with converter life? Just curious and polling to look for trends.


Federal emissions warranty for catalytic converters and powertrain control modules is 8yrs/80Kmi. It's been that way since ~2000, or possibly earlier AFAIK. Dealer service writers need to be reminded of this from time to time. I've seen OBDII compliant vehicles throw errant "catalyst system efficiency below threshold" codes after long, hi speed hywy runs, where they clear (after a reset) and don't come back.

Joel

 

[andyd]

Heh heh, the cat on my 88 528e is original with nearly 348 k miles on it. Last September, It passed MA emissions with higher numbers than it has had in 5 yrs. No new tuneup, oil change or filters, just a 5 minute drive to the shop. BTW, the car uses a qt every 1500 miles. NOx was borderline for a few yrs, but a new O2 sensor 70k back fixed that. This is about average for the general durability of this car compared to more modern cars, furrin or domestic. Must be the Supertech 20w50

 

[rustlerdude]

I work for vw and the cats on the 2.0 AEG and AVH engines are JUNK. They die anywhere from 20k to 100k. I've made TONS of money replacing them under warranty and I do about 2 cats a week.

They just increased the warranty on some of their cats to over 100k miles and 10 years.

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: JAG
Mori, I didn't notice any cat parts blowing out the tailpipe but can't say I was watching. How does this manifest itself for those that observed it?


Rattling noises and a change in exhaust not is frequently reported by those with disintegrating cats. I can't imagine that happening without fairly severe external trauma as cause. Some folks hit their cats to see if they are rattling -- not a good idea, if you ask me...

 

[Vikas]

If you do research you will find that P0420 and P0430 are reported by many users. In almost all the cases, the code would be spurious. As a matter of fact, many manufacturers have TSB to reprogram the ECU to reduce its sensitivity.

An independent study was done by Gateway Air which showed that cars with P0420 code were well within federal emission limits. Both of my vehicles started giving the code at around 70K. On one of them I was smart to get new converter from the dealer. However, this vehicle has two converter and the other converter started giving the code at 108K miles.

If you get P0420 (or P0430) AND NO OTHER CODE OR DRIVING SYMPTOMS, the converter is still good but your ECU is more picky than necessary. If you do elect to replace it, make sure you get the OEM one. After market will turn the light back on within first year.

The only way to make sure your cat is indeed gone is to hook up the OBD scanner which can plot the O2 data and then compare the before CAT and after CAT O2 graphs. The "before" one should be switching fast whereas the "after" one should be switching slow. This need to be observed under different driving conditions.

On my cars, the plots were OK but the computer still threw the code.

To answer the OP's question, you will be getting the code again at approximately 140K miles again.

- Vikas