De-sludging a 2000 Corolla with a PP/MaxLife blend

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I've been lurking here for a few months, but decided to register and post today in hopes of getting some feedback from the oil gurus here on my plan to safely remove the sludge from my 2000 Corolla VE (4 speed auto). A little background:

I bought it from the original owner on May 6th of this year, and received with it every service invoice, sorted by shop and organized chronologically. In looking through them, I noted that she missed an oil change at about the 50,000 km mark (it had 96,000 km on it when I bought it, and I've put another 7,500 km on it since).

During that missed interval, she put 1,200 km on it over a 1 year period on dino, which is all that was ever used in this car. I suspect that was when the sludge started to form, and her driving habits (mostly short trips, minimal highway, lots of stop and go) combined with a regular service interval of 4,500-7,500 km OCIs worsened the problem.

This particular 8th gen, like many other 8th gen Corollas, is an "oil burner." I've noticed, though, that as long as I stick close to posted speed limits (i.e., don't push it over 110-115 km/h on the highway), it doesn't consume much oil. And not enough for me to consider it an issue, more like something I remain aware of. When I've really pushed the speedo on the highway, oil consumption went way up (I stopped doing this when I finally got nailed for doing 132 in a 100 km zone, which would have been a $450 fine here if the cop hadn't cut it back a bit to give me a break).

Anyway, background done, this is the plan I'm considering and looking for feedback on:

Doing an early OCI at 3,500 km and replacing my current Frankenblend of 2.6L Toyota dino, 750 ml Castrol GTX HM, and 250 ml PP. There's roughly 1,000 km on this oil mix, and I changed the filter yesterday to a Mobil 1 Extended Performance filter. The Walmart rollback of the day was PP and the price was too good to pass up, so I picked up a 4.4L jug of the stuff.

When I do that 3,500 km OCI I plan to use the 3L of the PP synthetic blended with 600 ml of the new 100% synthetic Valvoline Maxlife. As far as I can tell, other than the small amount of PP I topped it up with after replacing the filter, this car has only ever seen dino.

This will be the first time it'll be run on 100% synthetic. I'm proposing this blend for the sludge fighting properties of PP and the seal conditioning and protection of MaxLife. I'll keep the same filter on and just change the oil. I plan to run this blend for 5,000 km and then change out both the oil and filter.

One 5,000 km OCI probably won't get it all out, and I know that's a very short OCI for synthetic, but I'm weighing that against the visible sludge and erring on the side of too early. What goes in after that'll depend on what I've picked up on sale in the interval and the relative success at cleaning it out.

Goal is to get it clean, keep it clean, and gradually extend the OCI by using good synthetics combined with good quality filters. This Mobil 1 filter was pricey, but if it delivers what the box claims it does, I'll happily stick with it. Oil and filters are cheap. Engines and rebuilds are not.

Anyone see any holes in this plan?

-Spyder
 
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Personally I would not run a Synthetic in it yet.
I would get a few short OCI's in using inexpensive filters and any name brand Dino. During those OCI's I would be sure to take it out on some long highway runs to get it hot.

The idea being to use the detergents and dispersants in the oil to help knock the top off of whatever sludge is in there.

I'm not convinced of synthetics cleaning existing sludge, just that synthetics prevent sludge and hold up over longer OCI's.

Depending on how much sludge you have you may want to check out the "Oil Additives" section of BITOG. There are many interesting discussions about this very thing.

Also, we love pictures of sludge. If you can provide some that would be great!

And WELCOME!
 
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
How do you know it's sludged? Did you take the valve cover off?


+1, also you sure you have the VE? I was under the assumption that the VE model came w/ a 3spd auto(mine did). Sorry for the off topic question, just curious.
 
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Plenty of holes. Mixing oils thinking that you are going to get the "benefits" of both is one.

Doubt you have any "sludge" in the engine. Why do you think you have any? Oil consumption? All engines use oil. Some more than others. My 2005 Corolla will use anywhere (depending on the oil type/brand) from a quart per 4000 miles to 8000 miles) and I've had it since new.

The 1ZZFE motor does consume oil more than others due to its design and low tension rings for FE.

My engine has almost 180,000 MILES and its as clean as it was when it had 20,000 miles. Its seen mostly conventional oils in it with OCIs from 5000 to the last one being 11,000 miles (on conventional Pennzoil) and I'm not concerned one bit about "sludge/deposits".

Thinking that if you run this oil you will get it clean esp with only one change is only one thing. Marketing.
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Just change the oil with any 5w-30 and run it to whatever is a 5000 mile OCI and your engine will last forever. Millions of Corollas are proving that and they are lucky to see oil changes that often.

Take care, Bill

PS: You are not doing ANY FAVORS mixing oils. Just run ONE type and brand of oil at a time. No NEED to do anything else!
 
Wouldn't it best to take off the valve covers and maybe the oil pan and clean things out? Or is it not really that bad? I'm no expert, just curious.
 
Yes. When I topped up recently there were clumps of it stuck to the crankcase filler cap. Looking through the fill hole I could see it baked onto the crankcase, and also see heavy deposits (more clumps) in the crankcase. So I know its there, and if I can see this much just on the cap and through the fill hole, then I know its there and I know its significant enough to require me to do something about.

So its not really an "if" thing, more of a "how to best remove it" thing. I'd prefer to avoid "shock treatments" like crankcase additives, and go the slower, gentler route of using good quality synthetic oil and filter combined with shortened OCIs.
 
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah

The 1ZZFE motor does consume oil more than others due to its design and low tension rings for FE.



The 1998-2002 1ZZFEs have documented problems with valve seals and rings, but to my knowledge, they are not sludgers and don't have a history of sludging.

If this one has had regular oil changes, I doubt it's sludged.
 
In that case I'd just use the PP by itself. The 8th gens really had an issue w/ oil burning, mine burned 1qt per 700 miles when I traded it in w/ 167,000 miles.
 
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
Yes. When I topped up recently there were clumps of it stuck to the crankcase filler cap. Looking through the fill hole I could see it baked onto the crankcase, and also see heavy deposits (more clumps) in the crankcase. So I know its there, and if I can see this much just on the cap and through the fill hole, then I know its there and I know its significant enough to require me to do something about.

So its not really an "if" thing, more of a "how to best remove it" thing. I'd prefer to avoid "shock treatments" like crankcase additives, and go the slower, gentler route of using good quality synthetic oil and filter combined with shortened OCIs.


What you might be seeing is the coating they put on the baffle under the valve cover. Many people have come here saying they have sludge, but it turns out to be the coating on the valve cover baffle. You'll need to take the entire valve cover off and actually see the top of the cylinder head to determine whether it's sludged.
 
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
Yes. When I topped up recently there were clumps of it stuck to the crankcase filler cap. Looking through the fill hole I could see it baked onto the crankcase, and also see heavy deposits (more clumps) in the crankcase. So I know its there, and if I can see this much just on the cap and through the fill hole, then I know its there and I know its significant enough to require me to do something about.

So its not really an "if" thing, more of a "how to best remove it" thing. I'd prefer to avoid "shock treatments" like crankcase additives, and go the slower, gentler route of using good quality synthetic oil and filter combined with shortened OCIs.


Spend more time looking and fixing the PCV system and then do normal length conventional OCIs with any 5w-30 oil and filter, towards the end use some MMO (up to a quart) around 500-1000 miles BEFORE the oil change. Repeat until everything is clear.

Going to syn is NOT going to do anything for you. FIXING the problem will..

Also take photos of what you are seeing and post them here!

Bill
 
The "yes" was in response to the first reply about whether or not I was sure it was sludge. I'm going to have to disappoint on the pic thing because the only thing I have to take them with is my cell, and its built in camera is a POS. That and once I take them, I run into an issue in trying to take them off: no bluetooth on my notebook, data cable was lost ages ago, and I've never been able to get its "send to e-mail" function to work.

I have, on the other hand, seen enough pictures of sludged engines, including those of the crankcase cover and "through the hole" shots into the crankcase. It looks the same to me as the pics I've seen, and I think its pretty hard to mistake for anything else once you've seen it first hand.

Its there. The 8th gen Corolla is not a known sludger, but any engine can develop sludge if the right precursors are there. I'm not looking to lay any blame on Toyota or the design for it, nor do I consider responses along the lines of "I have an 8th gen Corolla with xxx,xxx miles on it that has never had an issue with sludge" to be particularly helpful.

If this car wasn't driven for 12,000 km on dino by the original owner, and if she'd followed the severe service schedule (as per her driving habits combined with the climate here) and adhered to strict 5,000 km changes on dino, there would likely be no sludge on this engine either. But that's not the case.

Edit (to answer a question I missed): As far as the automatic transmission options go, the 2000 CE is 3 speed auto. 4 speed is standard on the LE, and optional on the VE. Mine is the 4 speed automatic (it has the same 4 speed overdrive button on the stick as on the LE; push it and an "overdrive off" indicator lights up on the dash; on the highway you can also feel it kick down a gear as the rpm surges up when you push it). So yes, I'm sure its a 4 speed auto. I tested it and verified it during the test drive before I bought the car.

-Spyder
 
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Originally Posted By: Spyder7
The "yes" was in response to the first reply about whether or not I was sure it was sludge. I'm going to have to disappoint on the pic thing because the only thing I have to take them with is my cell, and its built in camera is a POS. That and once I take them, I run into an issue in trying to take them off: no bluetooth on my notebook, data cable was lost ages ago, and I've never been able to get its "send to e-mail" function to work.

I have, on the other hand, seen enough pictures of sludged engines, including those of the crankcase cover and "through the hole" shots into the crankcase. It looks the same to me as the pics I've seen, and I think its pretty hard to mistake for anything else once you've seen it first hand.

Its there. The 8th gen Corolla is not a known sludger, but any engine can develop sludge if the right precursors are there. I'm not looking to lay any blame on Toyota or the design for it, nor do I consider responses along the lines of "I have an 8th gen Corolla with xxx,xxx miles on it that has never had an issue with sludge" to be particularly helpful.

If this car wasn't driven for 12,000 km on dino by the original owner, and if she'd followed the severe service schedule (as per her driving habits combined with the climate here) and adhered to strict 5,000 km changes on dino, there would likely be no sludge on this engine either. But that's not the case.

-Spyder


Bill's suggestion is a very good one, just use regular oil at reasonable intervals(such as 3K). When there's about 1K left in the OCI, throw some MMO in there. That should help clean it up, when it does, you can go longer on your OCI. If you want to run syn, run the PP and you can test their sludge cleaning claims :)
 
In that case try an oil change with just the PP, do not mix it with the Maxlife. IF you notice some cleaning, next oil change just use the Maxlife.

IF it were mine I would do three oil changes with conventional oil and some MMO then go to one of the synthetics, or just stick to your favorite conventional.
 
Originally Posted By: panthermike


Bill's suggestion is a very good one, just use regular oil at reasonable intervals(such as 3K). When there's about 1K left in the OCI, throw some MMO in there. That should help clean it up, when it does, you can go longer on your OCI. If you want to run syn, run the PP and you can test their sludge cleaning claims :)


Except for the MMO (which I've never seen here; I couldn't even find Redline SL-1 here, and amazon.com wouldn't ship it to Canada), I've tried this. Motomaster Formula 1 (dino) was what the original owner had used in her last oil change. At 4,500 km (3,000 miles) I replaced the oil and filter and used Castrol GTX. Roughly 3,000 km later (not a typo, km not miles) I had the oil drained and replaced again with Toyota shop oil (dino). 1,000 km later I changed the filter to the Mobil 1 I had on it now.

The shortened OCIs has been tried and its not doing anything. I know the span has only been 7,500 km (the mileage since I took possession of it), but if I were going to see any change from doing shortened OCIs on Dino, I'd expect to see some change by now. If its an issue with 7,500 km not being a long enough time span for this method to work, then the method is too slow for my taste.

I do appreciate the feedback so far; I'm not looking to start any arguments, but if I've tried something already and it hasn't worked, I'm going to try something else until I hit on something that does. I'm also constrained in the availability of products available here. I'm just hoping that by posting here that I can reduce the trial and error process.
 
You can't buy MMO in Canada anymore, and that is a favourite 'slow cleaner' on this site.

But you CAN buy 'Seafoam' - I'd buy a can of that, and add it to your engine 1,000km before your next oil change. It will help clean out some sludge.

Do this procedure for the next couple of oil changes using a 'cheap' dino oil - I'd hold off on using the PP until the engine is a bit cleaner.
 
I guess I should mention, in the interests of full disclosure, why I'm reluctant to add anything to the crankcase.

800 km back (according to the trip meter, and I'm rounding from memory) I treated the gas with Gumout Regane when I noticed the car feeling sluggish and throttle response being slower than it should be. That was after reading pages and pages of posts on the merits of different additives, primarily on this site. And its how I discovered that I couldn't get Redline here - after the research was done, I picked Redline, but wound up settling for Regane due to availability constraints on Redline.

Despite the controversy over the whole PEA thing in the new Regane bottle, it worked. In fact, I was shocked at how well it worked. This was after trying to injector cleaners (STP and Prestone) and noticing zero results (personal belief after this experience: injector cleaners are either snake oil or just too diluted to do anything noticeable; I'll stick with Regane once or twice as a year, "as needed").

During the Gumout burn I pushed the engine on the highway - hard. And, as I mentioned (or thought I did), oil consumption on my 8th gen isn't bad as long as I stick close to the speed limit. During the Gumout trial, I didn't, and I had to top up after that tank. That was when I noticed the sludge. Not suggesting there's any relationship between Gumout and the sludge. The sludge was there all along, I just hadn't noticed it before.

Anyway, this soon after using one additive (albeit a gasoline and not oil additive), I prefer to stay away from any more for awhile because I believe there is such a thing as too much of a good thing. So MMO, Seafoam, Auto-Rx, etc are all out. Not because I have any issues with them, but because I'd like to put at least 5,000 km between the Gumout and any further additive treatments of any kind (gasoline or crankcase). And preferably I'd like to hold out longer than that.

From the advice given so far, Johnny's is most inline with where I'd like to go:

The three dino oil changes , starting from the Motomaster Formula 1 (done by original owner and changed when I bought it at 4,500 km since it was put in) will be done by next oil change. Castrol GTX was used on the second for 3,000 km. Toyota shop dino was used on the third and it has 1,000 km on it now, and it'll be changed out by 3,500 km).

That's three shortened OCIs with dino done (as of my next oil change). Then the PP will go in, without MaxLife and we'll see what happens. It'll be the first time this car has been run on purely synthetic, so it'll be interesting to see what happens.
 
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