CZ 75 BD Police

[AMC]

The CZ 100 and 40B fizzled out quickly for a reason, they were junk.

Hokie- I think your complaints are very accurate but kind of typical and I think there are 2 issues going on. First, you are just not used to the gun yet. Second and maybe more accurately, it sounds like you shoot polymer framed handguns a lot. Metal framed guns transfer more shock and vibration into your hands period. Many shooters can only explain this as "punishing" and "harsh" even though the gun feels heavier in your hand. In reality, polymer frames recoil just as much but do a much better job at absorbing the shock and vibratory pulses from recoil. This makes them feel much softer and more pleasing to shoot.

The CZ 75 series pistols have a very low bore axis, with the only nearest competition coming from the glock. If you want a high bore axis, try a sig 220 or the worst I have ever seen, a ruger p345. Muzzle rise is more an effect of shooting technique, hand size and strength and how well the gun fits you. Watch some of hickock45's videos on muzzle flip, he does a very good job of controlling everything he shoots.

My suggestion would be to give it some time with the CZ and let yourself get used to it. If you can't seem to get used to it, sell it to your friend and stick with polymer framed handguns for now.

As for the discussion about safeties vs decockers for the police. Most departments that still carry DA hanguns, do use require decockers. However, there are still quite a few departments that carry 1911's cocked and locked and I have even seen a few HK USP's cocked and locked, especially on departments down south.

 

[Hokiefyd]

I have shot many polymer-framed pistols and metal-framed pistols. I shoot 1911s regularly, both in 9mm and in .45ACP. I wouldn't say that the CZ 75 was worse than any of them. It just wasn't as soft as I expected or hoped it to be. My previous CZ was a P-09, and I believe it was slightly softer than this 75. My friend's 75 PCR shoots softer than both of them. Maybe it's the alloy frame on that one? I shoot primarily 115 gr cheap ammo in all of them, so I doubt there to be any significant difference in ammunition.

Originally Posted By: AMC
The CZ 75 series pistols have a very low bore axis, with the only nearest competition coming from the glock.


If the definition of bore height is the distance of the centerline of the barrel (the bore axis) to the highest point of the grip (usually the top of the beavertail area), the CZ 75 has the highest bore height of any of my handguns. I think it may be an illusion that CZs have a low bore height because the bore axis sits low in the slide. And it does. But the slide's still mounted pretty high up on the gun, and the true bore height is pretty high.

I think this is somewhat understandable. There has to be room for that hammer somewhere. If the CZ's bore height was the same as an M&P's or a Glock's, the hammer would necessarily be below the web of your hand...and that obviously wouldn't work. Striker-fired guns seem to have a lower bore height...because they can. Their fire control mechanism resides within the frame, without the need for the external (and necessarily low-pivoted) hammer.

I would like to take some pictures of my CZ vs. my Shield, as much to confirm my own understanding of what bore height is as anything else. I read and read and read that CZs have a low bore axis, and I feel that it may be one of those things that gets perpetuated across the internet without anyone stopping to actually measure it.

 

[Hokiefyd]

These aren't my pictures, but...

Here's a CZ P-09 (similar to all other CZs):

The bottom of the barrel is lined right up with the top of the frame...and you can follow that line straight back and extend it rearward from the pistol. Look how far down on the gun her grip is.

Similar perspective with a Glock:

Here, too, the bottom of the barrel is nearly lined up with the top of the frame...it's a touch higher, but it's close. But with a Glock (and M&P, etc), you can actually HOLD the gun at the top of the frame.

It's clear to me that CZs have a higher bore height than a number of their competitors. But I may not have a good understanding of what bore height really is.

 

[AMC]

Most people describe bore axis as the height of the bore over the web of the shooters hand.

That being said, You are correct when you say striker fired guns almost always have a lower bore axis than hammer fired guns. The hammer and trigger mechanisms do take up a lot of space in the tang area of handguns and make for a slightly higher bore axis.

That being said, the metal framed CZ 75 series is about at as low as it gets for a hammer fired gun. Comparing them to anything striker fired really isn't apples to apples.

As far as striker fired handguns go, the Steyr M9, Caracal and Glock are as low as they come.

The pictures you provided don't prove much. The P series CZs have higher bore axises than the original series to begin with. Secondly, that girl doesn't seem to have a very high tang grip (which is improper form) and her finger is on the trigger, making her hand appear lower on the gun. The guy holding the glock seems to have much better grip and his finger is up on the frame, which gives the impression that the web of his hand is even higher on the frame than the other picture.

As an aside, Slide mass usually comes into play when having these discussions also. After shooting a CZ 75 for a while, every other pistol seems like it has an apartment building for a slide. A shorter, smaller slide reciprocating over your hand during firing should, in theory anyways, help control muzzle flip and recoil.

A cheap fix to reduce felt recoil in the CZ series of pistol is to use a slightly weaker recoil spring. I know that sounds odd but the weaker spring causes the slide to return to battery more gently, causing the front sight to stay on target, rather than dipping down after returning to battery. One of the first modifications the CZ Custom shop makes to any CZ 75 used for competition is to add a reduced power recoil spring for exactly that reason.

I hope I am not muddying up the waters any worse, Haha. Either way, keep shooting and comparing your guns and you will decide what is best for you.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: AMC
That being said, the metal framed CZ 75 series is about at as low as it gets for a hammer fired gun. Comparing them to anything striker fired really isn't apples to apples.


I would agree with this. Trouble is, most reviews and conversation on the internet seems to do just that. "Want something with a low bore axis? CZ is as low as they come!" Well, for hammer-fired guns, perhaps. But I find CZ being lumped in with Glocks and M&Ps regularly, and they're really not all that similar. Low for a hammer-fired gun, perhaps, yes. But not relative to some others in the same size class.

I've really tried to like both CZs I've had, but neither have left me saying, "man, this thing is AWESOME!" I thought my waning interest in the P-09 was due to it being plastic vs. metal, but maybe it's just the CZ platform. In comparison, every time I shoot my Shield, I come away completely impressed with it. Maybe it just fits me perfect or something.

Handguns are so fun...if I had more money, I'd probably own them all.

(My family is likely to relocate to Florida soon, and I will likely sell the 75 BD to help with moving expenses...only because I didn't walk away loving it. I may shop for another full size gun a year or two down the road...)

 

[Olas]

The gangstas in the hood have know the secret to barrel axis height for years..hold the gun sideways and the bore gets real low, real fast. Guns are handed though, the only way for a gangsta to have an ambi-pistol is to put open sights on both sides of the slide!