Cutting Keys with a horizontal key cutting machine

[MaximumMini]

Anyone have experience with this?

I bought one off ebay a few weeks ago and bought dozens of cheap key blanks to learn on (about 3 dozen)

After blowing through those I still can't reliably cut a key. My success rate is about one out of 10 even though I try to be super careful. There has to be a trick I'm missing because if it's really this difficult, I don't see how keys are cut successfully hardly ever.

This is the specific machine. It's a cheapie for sure...but it seems it should work. I think I am doing it wrong.

 

[Wireman1987]

no experience with the chinese machine my father being a licensed locksmith for over 40 years has an ilco machine similar to the chinese one posted. best bet watch a youtube video how to properly set the key to be copied and the blank in the jaws you have to make sure the blanks are sitting at the same height and use the gauge to make sure the shoulders set evenly. my fathers machine looks like this one

 

[bdcardinal]

These are ours at work not including the hand punchers for Ford 8 and 10 cut. I will say on the duplicator, you must have everything aligned perfectly. Also don't crank down on the knobs. Yes, I know we need to vacuum...

 

[Wireman1987]

dont push hard either gradually cut into the blank

 

[MaximumMini]

dont push hard either gradually cut into the blank

The machine is self feeding. Not sure if it has a manual advance.

 

[97prizm]

Anyone have experience with this?

I bought one off ebay a few weeks ago and bought dozens of cheap key blanks to learn on (about 3 dozen)

After blowing through those I still can't reliably cut a key. My success rate is about one out of 10 even though I try to be super careful. There has to be a trick I'm missing because if it's really this difficult, I don't see how keys are cut successfully hardly ever.

This is the specific machine. It's a cheapie for sure...but it seems it should work. I think I am doing it wrong.

View attachment 311370

I used one of these while working as an apartment maintenance tech. Our machine started cutting keys ever so slightly offset. You have to take it to a locksmith and have it calibrated. There are springs and a notch on each key chuck. If they get out of align you'll never get a correctly cut key. Are you cutting single or double sided keys? If you look at the cutting wheel it typically cuts better in one direction. Pm me if you have further questions.

 

[MaximumMini]

I used one of these while working as an apartment maintenance tech. Our machine started cutting keys ever so slightly offset. You have to take it to a locksmith and have it calibrated. There are springs and a notch on each key chuck. If they get out of align you'll never get a correctly cut key. Are you cutting single or double sided keys? If you look at the cutting wheel it typically cuts better in one direction. Pm me if you have further questions.

I'm often cutting doubled sided keys exactly like this.....(see image A below)
Other times Keys like Image B
I never really have a shoulder to work with, just the FOB plastic as shown here.
It's harder cutting the 2nd side because I no longer have a flat edge in the clamp.
Often, the aftermarket keys are up to 5mm longer than the OEM key.
What's worse, cheap aftermarket keys aren't always grooved exactly the same on both sides and the grooves might be off by as much as 1mm making alignment really difficult.

So I've tried just inserting the blank and the original so that the very end tip of the key aligns with the clamp. That still doesn't always result in a working key. I'm blowing through hundreds of dollars in key blanks trying to get a 90+ % success rate. I'm near 10% at the moment.

Image A

Image B

 

[MaximumMini]

My (obviously incompetent) process.....

1). Insert original key into Left side clamp, using the index guide to perfectly align the end of the large groove in the key with the edge of the index on the Left side. Insert the key into the clamp so that the entire edge to be cut is out of the clamp so that the guide can follow it.

2) Insert the Blank Key to be cut into the Right side clamp. Align the key with the guide so that the end of the large groove is aligned exactly as the Original key on the Left. Adjust the depth so that it is the same (as close as humanly possible) as the key on the Left.
I would need to use a caliper or micrometer to get it any closer.

3) Adjust the follower (that determines the cut depth) so that when it is riding the highest point on the shoulder of the Left key, it is just barely touching the shoulder of the key to be cut on the right. Touching by just a hair or less.

4). Run the cutter, then repeat the process for the other side, NOT removing the original key.

5) Using a wire brush on a wheel, debur the edges of the key just enough to remove a sharp edge.

6). Try the key.....FAIL.....debur the key a bit more....FAIL....Examine key to see if it looks the exact same as the original.....FAIL. In most cases it is the 5mm from the tip that is visually different.

7). Dispose of wasted key blank.

 

[bdcardinal]

When I use the copier, I gradually cut into the key blank. I don't just go in one pass. Think of it like a CNC and use a few passes to get to where it needs to be. Also they do use different metals in key blanks. Genuine Ford ones from Rotunda/Stratec are a softer metal and cut easier. Some of the knock off brands are a harder metal and will chatter more. Also a couple toots of Tri-Flow on the slide will make it work so much better.

 

[MaximumMini]

Well, I tried a slightly different approach this evening.
Instead of trying to align the guides with a shoulder (which these keys do not have) I aligned them tip end to tip end.
This means that the blank key is positioned so that the cutter reached the very end (tip) of the key at the precise (or very close to) the same time the guide on the original key reaches the tip end.

This seemed to work much better.
I cut two keys and both worked. Somewhat.
One of the keys works well in the door lock and the ignition. The other works really well in the door locks but is a PITB in the ignition, requiring quite a bit of fenagling.

Still, two out of two that weren't complete failures is an improvement.
I'm still far away from being comfortable cutting an expensive key like this.
I may have to buy a much better key cutting machine. Then again, if I'm going to trash a lot of key blanks, it might end up being less expensive in the long run.

 

[Donald]

Anyone have experience with this?

I bought one off ebay a few weeks ago and bought dozens of cheap key blanks to learn on (about 3 dozen)

After blowing through those I still can't reliably cut a key. My success rate is about one out of 10 even though I try to be super careful. There has to be a trick I'm missing because if it's really this difficult, I don't see how keys are cut successfully hardly ever.

This is the specific machine. It's a cheapie for sure...but it seems it should work. I think I am doing it wrong.

View attachment 311370

An experienced locksmith told me he calibrates his key cutting machines every 6 months I think. I doubt few key cutting machines are calibrated that often.

 

[97prizm]

I'm often cutting doubled sided keys exactly like this.....(see image A below)
Other times Keys like Image B
I never really have a shoulder to work with, just the FOB plastic as shown here.
It's harder cutting the 2nd side because I no longer have a flat edge in the clamp.
Often, the aftermarket keys are up to 5mm longer than the OEM key.
What's worse, cheap aftermarket keys aren't always grooved exactly the same on both sides and the grooves might be off by as much as 1mm making alignment really difficult.

So I've tried just inserting the blank and the original so that the very end tip of the key aligns with the clamp. That still doesn't always result in a working key. I'm blowing through hundreds of dollars in key blanks trying to get a 90+ % success rate. I'm near 10% at the moment.

Image A

Image B

Check out this guide to key blanks. As I thought there are auto home and variations on RV keys.
Different types of key blanks
i would also highly recommend calling someone to calibrate and adjust your key cutter machine as it sounds like it's out of spec.

 

[97prizm]

Well, I tried a slightly different approach this evening.
Instead of trying to align the guides with a shoulder (which these keys do not have) I aligned them tip end to tip end.
This means that the blank key is positioned so that the cutter reached the very end (tip) of the key at the precise (or very close to) the same time the guide on the original key reaches the tip end.

This seemed to work much better.
I cut two keys and both worked. Somewhat.
One of the keys works well in the door lock and the ignition. The other works really well in the door locks but is a PITB in the ignition, requiring quite a bit of fenagling.

Still, two out of two that weren't complete failures is an improvement.
I'm still far away from being comfortable cutting an expensive key like this.
I may have to buy a much better key cutting machine. Then again, if I'm going to trash a lot of key blanks, it might end up being less expensive in the long run.

Alot of vehicles have chips in them as well. I had a backup key made for my neon to get me in but it will only run a couple of seconds before it cuts out.
Different types of key cutters

 

[MaximumMini]

Alot of vehicles have chips in them as well. I had a backup key made for my neon to get me in but it will only run a couple of seconds before it cuts out.
Different types of key cutters

That means the chip inside the key was not properly coded to your vehicles SKREEM (depending on year) and or PCM / BCM.
If you were close by I could do that for you in about 5 minutes...provided the chip is still good and active.
I have a frequency spectrum analyzer that can determine that as well.

 

[MaximumMini]

Check out this guide to key blanks. As I thought there are auto home and variations on RV keys.
Different types of key blanks
i would also highly recommend calling someone to calibrate and adjust your key cutter machine as it sounds like it's out of spec.

House keys and single sided keys are a breeze to copy.
Double sided keys require a good bit more experience...unless you have state of the art equipment.
I'm almost improved to a 70/30 success rate now. That's a BIG improvement