Current OBJECTIVE 100% Synthetic Comparison Data?

[EngineeringGeek]

I know the "what's the best oil" question is often asked here. And I realize many have their personal favorites. But can anyone point me to some relatively recent measurements between the current crop of pure synthetics? Sadly, much of what I've found doesn't include many of the current oils available. I've also read about some brands being "reformulated" so obviously older tests of those may no longer be applicable.

The recent post from the Sebring club is an example of what I'm after, but several here quickly dismissed some of their findings as likely wrong. I'm looking for credible data.

Engine oil isn't rocket science. There are several well documented standardized tests. But I haven't found such tests used to compare the Synthetics stocked in 5 QT jugs at my local stores. I don't care about the ultra expensive products like Amsoil, Purple, Redline, racing oil, etc. I'm looking for a comparison of the current mainstream synthetics from Mobil, Valvoline, Penzoil, Castrol, Quaker State, etc.

Some here claim they're all about the same while others claim big differences. A proper comparison test would go a long way to resolving a lot of the conflicting information.

 

[chubbs1]

Truly objective testing such as the ASTM tests like Seq.IVG etc, would probably not be available for viewing to the public unless an oil co allowed it. Let alone several Co's. If that is what you are looking for good luck.

 

[ZZman]

The problem you run into is lack of data.

The manufactures do not want to give it out.

Most people run UOA tests not VOA tests.

While UOA's may not be as accurate as a VOA if you can compare multiple samples tested I think it gives you a decent idea what they are using in the oil and how much.

 

[OldCowboy]

Really, the only data that would let you make an OBJECTIVE comparison is actual API and GF test data.

VOA's give SOME indication of the differences, but are not very granular.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: EngineeringGeek
I don't care about the ultra expensive products like Amsoil....I'm looking for a comparison of the current mainstream synthetics from Mobil, Valvoline, Penzoil, Castrol, Quaker State, etc.


You already made an incorrect assumption and used killer buzz words. Amsoil OE and XL can actually be had for lower cost than the other oils listed.

"relatively recent measurements between the current crop of pure synthetics? "

What measurements? "Pure synthetic"? Curious. No one has ever really done a proper perf. comparison, so there is no hidden trove of data.

 

[fdcg27]

Information on metallic additives, viscosity at 40C and 100C, cold cranking, volatility, pour point and TBN are available for just about any oil, and HTHSV is sometimes.
Oils are reformulated all of the time, often with no fanfare, though, so it's hard to tell whether the PDS you're looking at actually applies to the oil now on the shelf.
A review of the UOA forum will tell you a lot about the performance of a variety of oils in actual use.
What is it that you want to know?

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Amsoil OE and XL can actually be had for lower cost than the other oils listed.


Pabs is right on about that one. All synths are $9 a quart now (whereas they used to be $3-$4,unless your fave can be found in 5 quart Walmart jugs),and I think Amsoil is $9 a quart. Cool thing about Amsoil,they`ve been the same price forever and haven`t gone up in price while the store brands have. Years back when I first heard of Amsoil,it was in the $9 a quart range,while M1,Syntec,etc,were all $3-$4. Since then,the store brands have gotten ridiculously expensive and Amsoil has stayed the same. Now I see why so many people build oil stashes during sales.

 

[shpankey]

Funny, I remember AMSOIL's brochure last year where the article in the front was prepping us for an upcoming price hike. They even gave a date it would happen & a long explanation why. Something about the cost of base stocks. I probably still have the article around here somewhere as I'm an oil nut & keep that stuff.

 

[Pablo]

This is NOT an Amsoil thread. Amsoil has raised prices, as have all the oil companies over the years. Point was, some exaggerated (untrue) words were used. It needed correction.

Back to looking for "Current OBJECTIVE 100% Synthetic Comparison Data"

 

[CATERHAM]

All synthetic oils are good.
What makes one oil better than another depends on the application and what attributes in an oil you value most.
And the application isn't just the vehicle, but the climate in which it's used and how it's used.
That's why the question, "what's the best oil?" is meaningless.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
All synthetic oils are good.
What makes one oil better than another depends on the application and what attributes in an oil you value most.
And the application isn't just the vehicle, but the climate in which it's used and how it's used.
That's why the question, "what's the best oil?" is meaningless.


This.

 

[GMorg]

Objective tests are used to qualify oils for various specifications and certifications. One way to compare oils is to evaluate which specifications the oil meets and which certifications the oil has obtained. A problem with this strategy is that some of the best oils (which you have already excluded) choose to not seek certifications.

In other words, if you do not want to use the objective data used to qualify an oil to meet your manufacturer's requirements, you can choose to use an oil that also meets another, more stringent requirement. For example, for several parameters, it is difficult to find performance requirements that are higher than those imposed by Volkswagon or BMW. Since your question suggests that the auto manufacturers requirements are inadequate for you, YOU will have to figure out which certifications include those parameters that are important to YOU.

 

[chubbs1]

Originally Posted By: GMorg
Objective tests are used to qualify oils for various specifications and certifications. One way to compare oils is to evaluate which specifications the oil meets and which certifications the oil has obtained. A problem with this strategy is that some of the best oils (which you have already excluded) choose to not seek certifications.

In other words, if you do not want to use the objective data used to qualify an oil to meet your manufacturer's requirements, you can choose to use an oil that also meets another, more stringent requirement. For example, for several parameters, it is difficult to find performance requirements that are higher than those imposed by Volkswagon or BMW. Since your question suggests that the auto manufacturers requirements are inadequate for you, YOU will have to figure out which certifications include those parameters that are important to YOU.


Very true, what GMorg and CATERHAM have said hit it on the head.

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
All synthetic oils are good.
What makes one oil better than another depends on the application and what attributes in an oil you value most.
And the application isn't just the vehicle, but the climate in which it's used and how it's used.
That's why the question, "what's the best oil?" is meaningless.


Ding ding ding!!! WINNER!!!

 

[CATERHAM]

Thanks guys.
So where do I collect my prize?

 

[ZZman]

The original post mentions 100% Syn. That lead me to believe he was wondering more about Group IV and V oils used.

Also the statement that it is not rocket science I believe does not take into account how complex oil formulation probably is. Different bases oils used and different chemical compounds do different things and react differently. I would consider it rocket science.

 

[EngineeringGeek]

Thanks for all the replies. First of all I am talking about 5qt jugs and most of the name brand full synthetics can be found for under $5 per quart--nearly half the $9 quart price several mentioned.

I do get there are trade offs that might make one oil a better choice over another for a specific application. But, to me, those choices are best made comparing objective test results. For example in extra hot or cold climates, or for extended change intervals, you may look for different things.

I wasn't asking for ONE oil that's best for every application. I'm just looking for a way to compare them objectively on more of a level playing field than just using mfg data. And category ratings, like GF-X, are too broad to reveal many differences.

As for rocket science I agree formulating oil is complex, but there are many well established and documented ways to TEST oil--with some requiring more time and money than others. If the answer is there's very little such data out there, that's too bad as that seems like the best way for all of us to make more informed choices and give the manufactures another reason to keep improving their products in meaningful ways.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: EngineeringGeek
Thanks for all the replies. First of all I am talking about 5qt jugs and most of the name brand full synthetics....


You mentioned:

Originally Posted By: EngineeringGeek
Mobil, Valvoline, Penzoil, Castrol, Quaker State


Please define "full synthetic".

 

[GMorg]

If an oil can meet your OEM required spec AND a certification that is more stringent in a parameter is of interest to you, you will have an objective way to exceed the minimum requirements. However, you will not have a way to compare oils. The absence of a certification may just mean that it was not sought (as opposed to the formulation not being able to meet the certification).

If you are seeking formulations that are based primarily on PAO and/or POE, then your run of the mill 5qt jug won't meet your requirements. If wait a little while, GTL will become more common, will clearly be synthesized, but will be considered as only GrpIII.

 

[EngineeringGeek]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: EngineeringGeek


You mentioned:

Mobil, Valvoline, Penzoil, Castrol, Quaker State


Please define "full synthetic".


Pennzoil platinum
Valvoline synpower
Castrol syntec
Mobil 1 marketing name of the month (5qt jug)
Etc.

The above all say "full synthetic" right on the label.

Perhaps an interesting start would be to have a lab like Blackstone test new oil at various temps. Such a test would be well within the budget of car magazines, consumer reports, etc. I would think at least some kinds of simulated stress on the oils would also be cost effective and would produce additional post-stress lab results. Obviously things like engine wear tests get more complicated and expensive.

Even some simple lab work would be more useful for comparison purposes than all the anecdotal results typically discussed--i.e. "my Yugo went 140,000 miles using K-mart oil so it has gotta be good!" It's also not terribly valid to compare used oil analysis results due to all the uncontrolled variables between oil changes, engines, climate changes, etc.

Has Blackstone ever averaged all their data by brand and type of oil? If their sample size is large enough they might be able to draw some conclusions about which oils hold up better. But last time I looked at their FAQ they said they don't recommend specific brands.