Cummins diesel engines

[Dualie]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: Jim 5
Originally Posted By: wafrederick1
The 6.4 is a piece of junk too and my Uncle steve had one.Had it in for the recall for the flames coming out of the exhaust and it was worse.The 6.4 is also a nightmare to work on what I read so far.One thing you do not do with a powerstroke,letting it sit idling in park.The powerstroke diesels are not made to idle in park


What, taking the entire cab and front clip off the frame to change headgaskets frequently is a nightmare?


The cab comes off very easily, and actually makes engine work far easier. Even the chassis harnesses have quick disconnects and such.

I guess it sucks for the home mechanic, but makes life much easier for anyone with access to a lift.



Aparently you havent had to work on one with a utility or service body on it and a lumber rack. or anything over hanging the cab.

 

[Jim 5]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: Jim 5
Originally Posted By: wafrederick1
The 6.4 is a piece of junk too and my Uncle steve had one.Had it in for the recall for the flames coming out of the exhaust and it was worse.The 6.4 is also a nightmare to work on what I read so far.One thing you do not do with a powerstroke,letting it sit idling in park.The powerstroke diesels are not made to idle in park


What, taking the entire cab and front clip off the frame to change headgaskets frequently is a nightmare?


The cab comes off very easily, and actually makes engine work far easier. Even the chassis harnesses have quick disconnects and such.

I guess it sucks for the home mechanic, but makes life much easier for anyone with access to a lift.



How many hours would this take for an honest dealership, just getting at the engine?

I'm wondering because a 6.0L diesel would be a contender. I'm just worried about EGR problems and headgasket failures. ARP head studs and EGR block seems to help from what I can gather. But there is also the fuel economy and power shortcomings. On the upside, they are super-super cheap on the used market, probably for all those reasons.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Jim 5
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: Jim 5
Originally Posted By: wafrederick1
The 6.4 is a piece of junk too and my Uncle steve had one.Had it in for the recall for the flames coming out of the exhaust and it was worse.The 6.4 is also a nightmare to work on what I read so far.One thing you do not do with a powerstroke,letting it sit idling in park.The powerstroke diesels are not made to idle in park


What, taking the entire cab and front clip off the frame to change headgaskets frequently is a nightmare?


The cab comes off very easily, and actually makes engine work far easier. Even the chassis harnesses have quick disconnects and such.

I guess it sucks for the home mechanic, but makes life much easier for anyone with access to a lift.



How many hours would this take for an honest dealership, just getting at the engine?

I'm wondering because a 6.0L diesel would be a contender. I'm just worried about EGR problems and headgasket failures. ARP head studs and EGR block seems to help from what I can gather. But there is also the fuel economy and power shortcomings. On the upside, they are super-super cheap on the used market, probably for all those reasons.


I have a good friend (International mechanic) with an '05.

-EGR cooler had to be done last year.
-I believe the head bolt issue was only the first year or two of this engine (International VT365). He has had no issues in this department.
-There is no shortage of power. Fuel economy isn't great, but its not horrible either.
-Make sure it has the most recent PCM flash, which helps to prevent the injector failures by bleeding off the pressure after you shut the truck off.

 

[Tornado Red]

At some point, and probably not too long from now, there is going to be some massive civil disobedience in the removal of smog devices and the use of unauthorized engine computer tunes.

But first something must be done about traffic light cameras.

 

[Rob_Roy]

Originally Posted By: MGregoir
When you buy a Dodge diesel, you aren't buying the Dodge, you are buying a way to get a Cummins.

That's all I have to say.


I have heard that you buy the Cummins and they throw in the truck for free. My experience has not beed good with Dodge, the first one we had was mediocre, the second was terrible.

The first Dodge one-ton we owned with the Cummins engine wasn't a terrible truck overall; we kept it for 6 years and over 200,000 miles (odometer quit at 200k). The weak link in that truck was certainly the transmission. It needed the 5-speed manual replaced twice while under warranty, and once more past warranty; along with the transfer case. The engine was trouble free, and the front end only needed to be overhauled once in 200,000 miles. The interior was terrible, the seat fell apart within two years, and the rest of the interior wasn't far behind. We replaced it with a '99 Dodge one-ton, which we still have with over 200k. That needed the 6-speed manual replaced at 30k, it has needed two fuel pumps, and the interior is falling apart. The worst part has been the front end, it has been completely rebuilt twice and needs it again. The ABS brake system has been a disaster since day one, and for some reason it needs new front brake pads about once per year.

As for the Chevy haters, we have a 2006 one-ton Chevy with the Duramax and Allison combo. It has accumulated about 50,000 miles of towing the maximum load allowed and not needed anything besides maintenance. It rides and steers better than the Dodges ever dreamed of and has a ton more power. Having driven each, I would buy a new Chevy with a Duramax in a heartbeat.

 

[fordboy]

well, I sure am a chevy hater.

this picture represents someone trying to start their dead chevy!

I first posted this section, and "Chevy" should be a (censored) word on this form! By the way, I spelled censored, I don't like real cussing.

 

[slammds15]

Originally Posted By: Rob_Roy
Originally Posted By: MGregoir
When you buy a Dodge diesel, you aren't buying the Dodge, you are buying a way to get a Cummins.

That's all I have to say.


I have heard that you buy the Cummins and they throw in the truck for free. My experience has not beed good with Dodge, the first one we had was mediocre, the second was terrible.

The first Dodge one-ton we owned with the Cummins engine wasn't a terrible truck overall; we kept it for 6 years and over 200,000 miles (odometer quit at 200k). The weak link in that truck was certainly the transmission. It needed the 5-speed manual replaced twice while under warranty, and once more past warranty; along with the transfer case. The engine was trouble free, and the front end only needed to be overhauled once in 200,000 miles. The interior was terrible, the seat fell apart within two years, and the rest of the interior wasn't far behind. We replaced it with a '99 Dodge one-ton, which we still have with over 200k. That needed the 6-speed manual replaced at 30k, it has needed two fuel pumps, and the interior is falling apart. The worst part has been the front end, it has been completely rebuilt twice and needs it again. The ABS brake system has been a disaster since day one, and for some reason it needs new front brake pads about once per year.

As for the Chevy haters, we have a 2006 one-ton Chevy with the Duramax and Allison combo. It has accumulated about 50,000 miles of towing the maximum load allowed and not needed anything besides maintenance. It rides and steers better than the Dodges ever dreamed of and has a ton more power. Having driven each, I would buy a new Chevy with a Duramax in a heartbeat.


Have you ever worked on a Duramax? I'm not a fan, its over engineered and is prone to many issues, also you are pretty much dealer bound for any repairs. The dealer as well in most cases are not well educated in this engine. Myself personally would buy an F series truck but nothing pre '04. I am curious to see what happens if Chrysler does shut its doors, it would be nice to see Ford pick up the Cummins engine. in my personal opinion Ford does make a superior work truck, chassis wise anyway. I haven't seen many failures with the 6.4l... yet. The poor fuel milage is the one thing keeping me from buying/wanting one.

 

[wafrederick1]

The 7.3 is a piece of junk too,do not last over 200,000 miles.I do know someone that had his rebuilt before 200,000 miles in a Ford Superduty.I do know an owner of a Carquest auto parts store owner that bought one with a 7.3,the bumpers rusted out and Great lakes Ford out of Muskegon,Mi would not cover it under warranty.Another dealership warrntied it under warranty.The Duramax is an Izuzu diesel.The cummins will go up to a million miles before a rebuild is done.The bigger Fords do have a Cummins in them,the local Snap On dealer in my area has ford with a Cummins in it.The 7.3 Powerstrokes do not last in the big trucks,you will read a new engine in the description when they are for sale

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: wafrederick1
The 7.3 is a piece of junk too,do not last over 200,000 miles.I do know someone that had his rebuilt before 200,000 miles in a Ford Superduty.I do know an owner of a Carquest auto parts store owner that bought one with a 7.3,the bumpers rusted out and Great lakes Ford out of Muskegon,Mi would not cover it under warranty.Another dealership warrntied it under warranty.The Duramax is an Izuzu diesel.The cummins will go up to a million miles before a rebuild is done.The bigger Fords do have a Cummins in them,the local Snap On dealer in my area has ford with a Cummins in it.The 7.3 Powerstrokes do not last in the big trucks,you will read a new engine in the description when they are for sale


The DT444 (7.3L) was fitted to more than just the Super Duty; it was fitted to bus and straight-truck chassis as well and actually has a pretty solid reputation for durability.

The guy above you works on these things every day, perhaps he'll chime-in with some FACTUAL longevity figures rather than heresy.

 

[wafrederick1]

My father knows some people that are big ford guys and said to stay away from the big trucks with the 7.3 powerstrokes.I hate the powerstroke's stinky exhuast and the garage door has to kept open at least half an hour.

 

[slammds15]

Originally Posted By: wafrederick1
The 7.3 is a piece of junk too,do not last over 200,000 miles.I do know someone that had his rebuilt before 200,000 miles in a Ford Superduty.I do know an owner of a Carquest auto parts store owner that bought one with a 7.3,the bumpers rusted out and Great lakes Ford out of Muskegon,Mi would not cover it under warranty.Another dealership warrntied it under warranty.The Duramax is an Izuzu diesel.The cummins will go up to a million miles before a rebuild is done.The bigger Fords do have a Cummins in them,the local Snap On dealer in my area has ford with a Cummins in it.The 7.3 Powerstrokes do not last in the big trucks,you will read a new engine in the description when they are for sale


So what fails on the 7.3L? are we talking electronic or mechanical? Be a little more specific. As far as the 7.3l goes are you getting your information from a super trucker or is this actual mechanical experience? the major failures with the 7.3l (electronic I'm assuming) are the valve cover gaskets, they tend to burn out at the connection. The rest tend to be oil and poor maintenance related. The major failures are HP oil pumps, injector solenoids, ICP solenoid, and fuel injectors. I'm going to state it again, poor oil and maintenance are the culprits in most cases. as far as injector failures go, use some good fuel conditioner. I cant stress it enough READ THE [censored] LABEL AND SPEND SOME MONEY!!! whens it comes to fuel conditioner. I had a 444 (7.3l) in the shop that was running extremely rough, long story short I pulled the injectors and sent them out to be tested. btw this vehicle had 130,000km on it (a little 10 ton low profile straight frame). The fellow at the pump shop asked me how many kms were on it and I told him. he thought there was at least 500,000 on it. I asked the driver what he was using for conditioner. He told me Kleen flo in the green can. The label says nothing about lubrication just anti gelling. The tolerances of injectors and different fuel formulation of today is very hard on the fuel system. The ISB's, they are an excellent engine, but depending on what years they are, they are prone to many failures as well. Have some basic knowledge before you [censored] on something, if you heard from your uncle, who has a friend, that married a dude, who has a dog, that said "hey this is junk" its just not substantial. I hear this sort of jargan from ppl everyday, read between the lines and see what is actually transpiring. I have serviced many 7.3l with well over 600,000kms on them, then again they use good oil, good filters, follow a maintenance schedule, and use stanadyn every fill up.

 

[wafrederick1]

My father got the info from bigtime Ford guys saying to stay away from a powerstroke in the big trucks and they are not idiots.This was when my father was looking to buy a flatbed which he did,a 2000 Freieghtliner with a 6226 Cat and my father is an used car dealer

 

[slammds15]

I've never heard of a 6226 CAT or seen one for that matter. I'm not a CAT guy nor will I claim to be.

I've been working on international stuff for over 11 years now, light truck and heavy truck. they are a good engine despite what you claim to say, if you fail to comprehend what I have written in the previous statement there is no argument to be had. you are just like every other super trucker/self proclaimed top tech out there. Stop and think, educate yourself before you puke random false information. This engines basic design has been around since the early 80's and continued to run until 2003 when 6.0 was introduced. the reason for change was emissions and the need for better engine management to meet new EPA standards. Ford and International sure ran that engine for a long time for it to be junk, didn't they? If it was a poor design the engine would have been scrapped a long time ago. Warranty claims would have made it so.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: wafrederick1
My father got the info from bigtime Ford guys saying to stay away from a powerstroke in the big trucks and they are not idiots.This was when my father was looking to buy a flatbed which he did,a 2000 Freieghtliner with a 6226 Cat and my father is an used car dealer


I'm a big-time Ford guy.

I also know a lot of "big-time" Ford guys that don't know their rear from a hole in the ground. Just because somebody is a fan of the brand, doesn't make them the authority on all things Ford.

There are lots of people who are steadfast followers of Toyota on this site, does that mean they are experts on the brand?

Like slammds15, I've seen plenty of high mileage 7.3L and when that engine was discussed on this site previous it had many people touting its durability. The 6.0L Powerstroke (VT365) has been the engine with the "reputation", much of which was due to programming issues that were created by Ford, NOT International, who had no where NEAR the issues with the VT365, as Ford did with it as the 6.0L Powerstroke.

This is from various sources, one of which is the gentleman above, who WORKS on these engines EVERY DAY.

 

[slammds15]

Originally Posted By: wafrederick1
The 6.4 is a piece of junk too and my Uncle steve had one.Had it in for the recall for the flames coming out of the exhaust and it was worse.The 6.4 is also a nightmare to work on what I read so far.One thing you do not do with a powerstroke,letting it sit idling in park.The powerstroke diesels are not made to idle in park


That was an after treatment issue that was created in the the regen programing. Blame Ford

 

[slammds15]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: wafrederick1
There is a conversion kit to put a cummins in the Fords in place of the powerstroke.It costs $16,000.00 and I heard about it from the local Snap On dealer in my area.The 6.0 powerstroke is huge POS and Jasper found lots of problems with it.


I've had a few questions about that....

First, is the newer 6.4 holding up any better so far?

Second, is Navistar's own Maxxforce 7 having the same problems as the Powerstroke, or is it Ford's engine management systems and other application specific specs that are causing the problems?



The Maxxforce engine is doing well, not as many issues as the 6.0l when it first came out. Its definitely not fun to work on when its packaged in a Ford. I have delt with multiple injector failures due to poor fuel and some EGR failures as well.

 

[slammds15]

Originally Posted By: fordboy
In a few years, I plan to buy a big diesel truck for my farm. I am a Ford guy, and I hate to admit that Ford's diesel engins are not doing to well right now. I am wondering if a Dodge Ram 3500 with a Cummins diesel would be a better choice. I hope that Ford will resolve their problems, or at least Toyota will build a diesel truck. Chevy Duramax diesels are doing well too, but I wouldn't buy a Chevy if my life dependened on it! Please tell me what you think about Cummins diesel engines. And no comments about me hating Chevys!!!

To get back to what your original question. Cummins in my opinion is a much better choice engine wise. Fords new engine... I'm a little skeptical in the first few years of operation myself. The duramax is decent, I'm not a fan by any means. I would wait until the 2010 dodges come out, Dodge seems to have fixed the reliability issues some what to my knowledge. Maybe someone else who works on them everyday day can chime in on this. Are you looking to buy new or used?

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: slammds15
Originally Posted By: wafrederick1
The 6.4 is a piece of junk too and my Uncle steve had one.Had it in for the recall for the flames coming out of the exhaust and it was worse.The 6.4 is also a nightmare to work on what I read so far.One thing you do not do with a powerstroke,letting it sit idling in park.The powerstroke diesels are not made to idle in park


That was an after treatment issue that was created in the the regen programing. Blame Ford


The regen issues are the least of the 6.4s problems.

 

[slammds15]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: slammds15
Originally Posted By: wafrederick1
The 6.4 is a piece of junk too and my Uncle steve had one.Had it in for the recall for the flames coming out of the exhaust and it was worse.The 6.4 is also a nightmare to work on what I read so far.One thing you do not do with a powerstroke,letting it sit idling in park.The powerstroke diesels are not made to idle in park


That was an after treatment issue that was created in the the regen programing. Blame Ford


The regen issues are the least of the 6.4s problems.


What else have you ran into? The most recent issue I've had was where the injectors remained open and melted down the pistons along with epic turbo failure. 60+ hrs dealing with iKnow and performing their tests and no one can give me a reason as to why this happened. This engine was in a school bus which sat for 4 months. As far as we can figure the fuel system went dry, other than that iKnow has no answers for me.

 

[cornfused]

Ford + Cummins + Allison =

I would buy a ford, but if you can stomach a dodge, the cummins is hard to beat!