There's not a lot in it here in NZ where we use a lot of small diesels - no one uses a petrol engine to pull a load,they are gutless and use too much fuel. What finishes both engines is a cracked cylinder head - heads are cheap, but still often not considered worth repairing....we just fit another engine.
Gas VS Diesel longevity
- Thread starter DrDusty86
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Originally Posted By: subiedriver
I will say that my situation is unique, living out here in Colorado and towing at altitude pretty much requires a diesel for good performance. Getting to our favorite riding area's often involves several 11,000 foot passes and the average altitude over the whole trip will be about 9000 feet.
We used to have a 5.4 F-150 and putting the camper and quads on it, then driving over these passes put a serious hurt on that thing, dragged it down to 35 mph, screaming for mercy at 4000 rpm.
Maybe you meant TURBO diesel? My old 7.3 Navistar was a real dog in the mountains, but it was N/A.
I will say that my situation is unique, living out here in Colorado and towing at altitude pretty much requires a diesel for good performance. Getting to our favorite riding area's often involves several 11,000 foot passes and the average altitude over the whole trip will be about 9000 feet.
We used to have a 5.4 F-150 and putting the camper and quads on it, then driving over these passes put a serious hurt on that thing, dragged it down to 35 mph, screaming for mercy at 4000 rpm.
Maybe you meant TURBO diesel? My old 7.3 Navistar was a real dog in the mountains, but it was N/A.
Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
Because the water pump is $1600 For that price it aught to be good for 500k
I just looked on RockAuto for the price of a water pump - $125.79. Far cry from $1600.
I agree with the other poster. How do you relate diesel longevity when a water pump goes bad?
I know the newer diesels have new emissions on them and can be costly. Diesels will keep running strong for many miles with proper maintenance. We've had many diesels in our family for over 10+ years now and never had any major issues at all.
Because the water pump is $1600 For that price it aught to be good for 500k
I just looked on RockAuto for the price of a water pump - $125.79. Far cry from $1600.
I agree with the other poster. How do you relate diesel longevity when a water pump goes bad?
I know the newer diesels have new emissions on them and can be costly. Diesels will keep running strong for many miles with proper maintenance. We've had many diesels in our family for over 10+ years now and never had any major issues at all.
Like I said, ancillary components like WPs don't count.
I find diesels stoutly built.
I find diesels stoutly built.
Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
So the only advantage to a new light truck diesel is pulling power?
The consensus is that it is not true by todays standards. Gas>diesel now for longevity?
I ask because I saw a post that a guy was getting a new CR Cummins in a 2500 series truck to haul a fish tank that weighs 4,000lbs saying " I do 80,000 miles a year, and the gasser would be worn out in 1.5 years" I think that a Hemi in a 2500 pulling just 4,000lbs will see 4-5 years easy with good care.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I am seeing quite a few 200000 km hemi's coming thru in trade ins right now and tge valvetrain noise is a very big indicator of a shot top end.
Beside my office is a mechanic. He does all the work for a motor vehicle group that sells used cars. He inspects and does any work needed to get them ready to put on the used car lots. As off right now there are 6 hemi's behind my shop,all needing top end work. All with 200000 kms. He has 3 pulled apart,with really worn cams which leads to a myriad of problems. Will those trucks last another 100000 kms,probably. But then a new crate motor will have to get dropped in. There is a very serious top end oiling issue with these trucks. I have seen for myself clogged pushrods,which then starve the top end for oil.
You guys can believe the commercials if you want,I will stick with experience. Hemi is just a name anyway. The head design isn't a real hemi head anyway.
Now for gas vs diesel. Unless you plan on hauling with the motor daily I don't see any up for owning a diesel. The technology is forever changing with emissions regulations and the parts never get a chance to prove their worth. Take ford/international and that junk 6.0. What a waste of iron.
Diesels used to be built better to handle the compression but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. In this world of trade in or sell it to the next guy,then it's his problem,nothing is built to last anymore. It's built to last long enough to meet warantee requirements.
So the only advantage to a new light truck diesel is pulling power?
The consensus is that it is not true by todays standards. Gas>diesel now for longevity?
I ask because I saw a post that a guy was getting a new CR Cummins in a 2500 series truck to haul a fish tank that weighs 4,000lbs saying " I do 80,000 miles a year, and the gasser would be worn out in 1.5 years" I think that a Hemi in a 2500 pulling just 4,000lbs will see 4-5 years easy with good care.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I am seeing quite a few 200000 km hemi's coming thru in trade ins right now and tge valvetrain noise is a very big indicator of a shot top end.
Beside my office is a mechanic. He does all the work for a motor vehicle group that sells used cars. He inspects and does any work needed to get them ready to put on the used car lots. As off right now there are 6 hemi's behind my shop,all needing top end work. All with 200000 kms. He has 3 pulled apart,with really worn cams which leads to a myriad of problems. Will those trucks last another 100000 kms,probably. But then a new crate motor will have to get dropped in. There is a very serious top end oiling issue with these trucks. I have seen for myself clogged pushrods,which then starve the top end for oil.
You guys can believe the commercials if you want,I will stick with experience. Hemi is just a name anyway. The head design isn't a real hemi head anyway.
Now for gas vs diesel. Unless you plan on hauling with the motor daily I don't see any up for owning a diesel. The technology is forever changing with emissions regulations and the parts never get a chance to prove their worth. Take ford/international and that junk 6.0. What a waste of iron.
Diesels used to be built better to handle the compression but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. In this world of trade in or sell it to the next guy,then it's his problem,nothing is built to last anymore. It's built to last long enough to meet warantee requirements.
Back 20-30 years ago diesels had a real advantage, and would run much longer than a carb'd gas engine.
Fast forward to 2012 and with all the complex emissions controls diesels now have no real advantages over gas motors.
The only advantage you get with a diesel is they are better at towing, and if you plan to haul 15k pounds on a regular bases they make sense. If you don't buy the gas motor.
All I know is when I finally buy a 1 ton truck with a dump body on it I'm going to buy the gas motor. I have no use for a modern diesel, to complicated and to expensive. I'll pay for the gas.
Fast forward to 2012 and with all the complex emissions controls diesels now have no real advantages over gas motors.
The only advantage you get with a diesel is they are better at towing, and if you plan to haul 15k pounds on a regular bases they make sense. If you don't buy the gas motor.
All I know is when I finally buy a 1 ton truck with a dump body on it I'm going to buy the gas motor. I have no use for a modern diesel, to complicated and to expensive. I'll pay for the gas.
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Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Back 20-30 years ago diesels had a real advantage, and would run much longer than a carb'd gas engine.
Fast forward to 2012 and with all the complex emissions controls diesels now have no real advantages over gas motors.
The only advantage you get with a diesel is they are better at towing, and if you plan to haul 15k pounds on a regular bases they make sense. If you don't buy the gas motor.
All I know is when I finally buy a 1 ton truck with a dump body on it I'm going to buy the gas motor. I have no use for a modern diesel, to complicated and to expensive. I'll pay for the gas.
Good point, if all you buy is fuel who cares?
Diesel longevity is a real issue in these days of computer design and engineering. Seems they are being a bit too cost conscious.
Back 20-30 years ago diesels had a real advantage, and would run much longer than a carb'd gas engine.
Fast forward to 2012 and with all the complex emissions controls diesels now have no real advantages over gas motors.
The only advantage you get with a diesel is they are better at towing, and if you plan to haul 15k pounds on a regular bases they make sense. If you don't buy the gas motor.
All I know is when I finally buy a 1 ton truck with a dump body on it I'm going to buy the gas motor. I have no use for a modern diesel, to complicated and to expensive. I'll pay for the gas.
Good point, if all you buy is fuel who cares?
Diesel longevity is a real issue in these days of computer design and engineering. Seems they are being a bit too cost conscious.
ls1mike
$50 Site Donor 2026
That is the way I looked at it when I bought my gasser. It may see 3000 miles a year on heavy year of driving. Otherwise it sits on the side of the house. I am not a truck guy.
Three times, i have thought about buying a Volkswagen Jetta TDI. 40+ MPG, almost 50MPG depending. Somewhere in the middle with normal highway driving mixed with city, 5W-40 motor oil IIRC.
Three times i have realized that when i drive past the fuel up stations that gas is ~$3.19 and diesel is ~$3.74.
Three times, i realize.. the new VW Jetta Hybrid may be more appealing when it comes time to own. Or any hybrid.. even a hybrid based on diesel engine like Mercedes and probably BMW (335d?) and VW will.
(Fuel price balances out MPG gains?)
Three times i have realized that when i drive past the fuel up stations that gas is ~$3.19 and diesel is ~$3.74.
Three times, i realize.. the new VW Jetta Hybrid may be more appealing when it comes time to own. Or any hybrid.. even a hybrid based on diesel engine like Mercedes and probably BMW (335d?) and VW will.
(Fuel price balances out MPG gains?)
That's the way I see it, I can buy a 6.2 gas V8 and know I won't have to do much other than oil changes and maybe an air filter for 100k miles. Nothing really complicated or expensive to break, and if it does go wrong any shop can fix it.
Now can anyone honestly say that of a new Duramax?
The only thing I'm giving up with the gas motor is a bit of towing, it will still yank around 15k pounds just not with the authority of a diesel, but since its all around town I don't really care.
As for fuel mileage last I checked the diesel was an $8k option and diesel fuel costs $.70 cents more a gallon around here...so what are you saving?
I really wouldn't be surprised if you started to see more and more big gas motors show up in medium duty trucks like they had back in the day. No reason say a 5500 couldn't have an 8.1.
Now can anyone honestly say that of a new Duramax?
The only thing I'm giving up with the gas motor is a bit of towing, it will still yank around 15k pounds just not with the authority of a diesel, but since its all around town I don't really care.
As for fuel mileage last I checked the diesel was an $8k option and diesel fuel costs $.70 cents more a gallon around here...so what are you saving?
I really wouldn't be surprised if you started to see more and more big gas motors show up in medium duty trucks like they had back in the day. No reason say a 5500 couldn't have an 8.1.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: 45ACP
Three times, i have thought about buying a Volkswagen Jetta TDI. 40+ MPG, almost 50MPG depending. Somewhere in the middle with normal highway driving mixed with city, 5W-40 motor oil IIRC.
Three times i have realized that when i drive past the fuel up stations that gas is ~$3.19 and diesel is ~$3.74.
Three times, i realize.. the new VW Jetta Hybrid may be more appealing when it comes time to own. Or any hybrid.. even a hybrid based on diesel engine like Mercedes and probably BMW (335d?) and VW will.
(Fuel price balances out MPG gains?)
You realize it is because diesel passenger car owners get levied the road damage taxes that heavy trucks have to pay... For how much less poundage on the roads?
Three times, i have thought about buying a Volkswagen Jetta TDI. 40+ MPG, almost 50MPG depending. Somewhere in the middle with normal highway driving mixed with city, 5W-40 motor oil IIRC.
Three times i have realized that when i drive past the fuel up stations that gas is ~$3.19 and diesel is ~$3.74.
Three times, i realize.. the new VW Jetta Hybrid may be more appealing when it comes time to own. Or any hybrid.. even a hybrid based on diesel engine like Mercedes and probably BMW (335d?) and VW will.
(Fuel price balances out MPG gains?)
You realize it is because diesel passenger car owners get levied the road damage taxes that heavy trucks have to pay... For how much less poundage on the roads?
ls1mike
$50 Site Donor 2026
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
That's the way I see it, I can buy a 6.2 gas V8 and know I won't have to do much other than oil changes and maybe an air filter for 100k miles. Nothing really complicated or expensive to break, and if it does go wrong any shop can fix it.
Now can anyone honestly say that of a new Duramax?
The only thing I'm giving up with the gas motor is a bit of towing, it will still yank around 15k pounds just not with the authority of a diesel, but since its all around town I don't really care.
As for fuel mileage last I checked the diesel was an $8k option and diesel fuel costs $.70 cents more a gallon around here...so what are you saving?
I really wouldn't be surprised if you started to see more and more big gas motors show up in medium duty trucks like they had back in the day. No reason say a 5500 couldn't have an 8.1.
No more 8.1
That's the way I see it, I can buy a 6.2 gas V8 and know I won't have to do much other than oil changes and maybe an air filter for 100k miles. Nothing really complicated or expensive to break, and if it does go wrong any shop can fix it.
Now can anyone honestly say that of a new Duramax?
The only thing I'm giving up with the gas motor is a bit of towing, it will still yank around 15k pounds just not with the authority of a diesel, but since its all around town I don't really care.
As for fuel mileage last I checked the diesel was an $8k option and diesel fuel costs $.70 cents more a gallon around here...so what are you saving?
I really wouldn't be surprised if you started to see more and more big gas motors show up in medium duty trucks like they had back in the day. No reason say a 5500 couldn't have an 8.1.
No more 8.1
ls1mike
$50 Site Donor 2026
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
You realize it is because diesel passenger car owners get levied the road damage taxes that heavy trucks have to pay... For how much less poundage on the roads?
Either way you have to pay, everyone pays for something they don't do or have any impact over at some point.
You realize it is because diesel passenger car owners get levied the road damage taxes that heavy trucks have to pay... For how much less poundage on the roads?
Either way you have to pay, everyone pays for something they don't do or have any impact over at some point.
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
No more 8.1
Didnt they have the 8.1 in a Suburban once?
No more 8.1
Didnt they have the 8.1 in a Suburban once?
ls1mike
$50 Site Donor 2026
Yep, almost everything that was fullsize could have the 8.1. I am not sure about the vans, but I know you could even get one in an Avalanche.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
You realize it is because diesel passenger car owners get levied the road damage taxes that heavy trucks have to pay... For how much less poundage on the roads?
Either way you have to pay, everyone pays for something they don't do or have any impact over at some point.
This is true, but to some extent the diesel is more expensive than gas is a moot point because it is that way because LD diesel owners dont speak up. I dont now the tax delta specifically, but as long as there are road damage penalties built into the diesel price, then it is a consideration (which nobody wants to make).
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
You realize it is because diesel passenger car owners get levied the road damage taxes that heavy trucks have to pay... For how much less poundage on the roads?
Either way you have to pay, everyone pays for something they don't do or have any impact over at some point.
This is true, but to some extent the diesel is more expensive than gas is a moot point because it is that way because LD diesel owners dont speak up. I dont now the tax delta specifically, but as long as there are road damage penalties built into the diesel price, then it is a consideration (which nobody wants to make).
The API reports that on average, State Gas tax is 48.8 cents per gallon, and diesel is 54.0 cents per gallon. So, at most, a 5.2 cents per gallon penalty on diesel. Federal tax on diesel is 6 cents per gallon, so the states actually eat a little on diesel taxes, on average. Not really much of a penalty for passenger cars, particularly given the mileage they generally achieve.
Right now diesel is running about 60 cents a gallon higher than gasoline in this area. (It was just shy of a dollar higher in October). It is very likely that gasoline options will reappear in vocations they had lost popularity in. Garbage operations here are now switching to propane, even with the high inital investment, because it is cheaper than running diesel anymore. Given the high cost of the diesel option and tge more complicated systems due to tightening emissions, and it becoming tougher to claim better mileage wipes out the higher fuel cost, yeah, I can see some changing back.
Right now diesel is running about 60 cents a gallon higher than gasoline in this area. (It was just shy of a dollar higher in October). It is very likely that gasoline options will reappear in vocations they had lost popularity in. Garbage operations here are now switching to propane, even with the high inital investment, because it is cheaper than running diesel anymore. Given the high cost of the diesel option and tge more complicated systems due to tightening emissions, and it becoming tougher to claim better mileage wipes out the higher fuel cost, yeah, I can see some changing back.
Well for me, towing at 9000 feet with a gasser really sucks. The turbo diesel is absolutely superior out here in Colorado. In my case, Cummins power baby!
Originally Posted By: subiedriver
Well for me, towing at 9000 feet with a gasser really sucks. The turbo diesel is absolutely superior out here in Colorado. In my case, Cummins power baby!
The Ford F150 Ecoboost should be excellent at altitude. If you can get over the fuel consumption while towing.
Well for me, towing at 9000 feet with a gasser really sucks. The turbo diesel is absolutely superior out here in Colorado. In my case, Cummins power baby!
The Ford F150 Ecoboost should be excellent at altitude. If you can get over the fuel consumption while towing.
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